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AbnRanger

2 Cycle(s) or Not 2 Cycle(s)...

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Hi michalis.

 

Have testet your blendfile and maybe i am to stupid, but it wont works.

Normalmap have no effect, Speculary too.

Normalmap with bump looks ugly.

 

3d Coat

post-24378-0-57291500-1384979424_thumb.j

 

Your Blendfile Setup

post-24378-0-39163600-1384979464_thumb.j

 

Setup you have give me long time ago

post-24378-0-91370800-1384979524_thumb.j

 

Sure the last one have to adjust a little bit, but it looks much better as that you have postet above.

Maybe there is a bug in your new setup.

 

Anyway, Many thanks for sharing.

Edited by Malo

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2. A normal (tangent) map. Strength is at 0, it's off now, when you import your normalmap turn it to 1.000) 

 

Please, read carefully 

Read the screengrab I posted (with some comments on it) 

N_map is at 0 as I posted it. I had to, because if you don't apply anything as a n_texture/nmap it will become messy. 

 

Optionally, next to the normal map node there is a multiplier. Turn it to 0. If you don't mix a bump texture with n maps (yes, mixing bumps and n maps is possible in cycles) 

 

BTW, 

this is more advanced:

I forgot to support an AO map. 

Oh my. 

OK, next setup is coming soon. 

But, I bet, 3dc mixes (multiplies it with color information on the diffuse texture). This option is not really the best for cycles. 

 

 

EDIT:

It's me who should be more careful Malo,  :blush:

Apologies 

A fatal error. 

Please try the new version. I edited the previous post. 

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Thanks.

 

Looks better now

post-24378-0-69499000-1385048615_thumb.j

I have to tweak some stuff like invert green chanel on my normalmap as usual and invert the bump node too,

And i have put the Speculary into the Glossy Mix node.

 

Another test with a HDRI Image, same Material.

post-24378-0-72727800-1385048735_thumb.j

 

Not bad at all.

It is sad that SSS is not supported on GPU.

Edited by Malo

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@Malo, I still wonder why you have to invert the green channel for blender... All my normal maps from 3DCoat are applied with no corrections and load correctly in Blender... Really curious... sorry I tend to be an overly curious person at times but that is how I learn alot too... :)

 

Thanks for the Blend file there Michalis... :D

Edited by digman

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@Malo

Yeah, I forgot to mention it. 

SSS still not supported in GPU mode. 

Though I added it as an option (turned it off as you may noticed in the next to it mix node), it will conflict under GPU rendering. Better get rid of the SSS shader for GPU rendering. 

I prefer the first one you posted, without the HDRI. 

I usually ass a hdri (strength ~0.4) to help my basic lighting set up and give some life to the reflections. 

we'll discuss it on a next nodes setup. 

 

About inverting green channel on n_maps and invert of the bump map. 

I also wonder why. Never happened to me on a 3dc to blender workaround. (however it happens on a zbrush to blender - default z settings) 

Normal maps: I suggest the maya-blender compatible setup. 

Bumps: it is a B&W image, it should work as it is.

Please, check the normals / blender/edit mode/ select all/ CTRL+A. Optionally ask blender to show normals. (N panel/mesh display submenu/normals ) 

If you have re scaled the 3dc imported object, Never forget! CTRL+A / apply rotation And Scale. Apply it, even if you haven't rescale the mesh. On the N panel, on top, Rotation should be x y z = 0º Scale should be xyz=1.000

On another thread, I posted this setup, some months ago

http://3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=14895&p=98673

Normal calculations=maya

normal maps export=maya, blender

 

Thank You David! 

Hangout saved us all. 

David helped me to realize that Malo had all the rights to complain. LOL 

 

A hangOut meeting. 

This is what we should try. 

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@Invert Bump and Green Chanel

 

That is very easy.

All of my Game Engines use in my eyes the correct normalmaps like 3d coat export.

All of my Painting Programms with the option to generate Normalmaps create in my eyes the correct normalmaps like 3d coat export.

Blender 2.49 creates in my eyes the correct normalmaps like 3d coat export.

Only 2.5 and above dont do that. The Devs have changed that, i dont know why.

 

Infanct it is easier for me to invert in Blender 2.5+ all my Normalmaps instead of inverting invert all my maps from my other Apps, that i could use it in the Game Engines.

For all of you, that want to create nice renders, it is ok to export it with the maya setup, but for me it is the Lightworks Setup, that i need for my game models.

 

@michalis

I know that all. I am not stupid.

It is the fact that Blender have Inverted the usage of Normalmaps since 2.5.

If i render a model now in 2.49 everything works as usual, in my eyes.

Edited by Malo

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I use a RGB Curve instead.

Let me show you the results.

 

Your Basic file, nothing have changed.

post-24378-0-24758700-1385123467_thumb.j

As you see around the the eyes, side and nose, everything is inverted.

 

Now i make a usage of the Normalmap Node.

I set it from 0 to 1

post-24378-0-88601900-1385123481_thumb.j

As you see, there is something in change, but still not correct.

 

Now I invert the green chanel of the normalmap with the RGB Curve.

post-24378-0-29969800-1385123493_thumb.j

It looks much better, in some areas i get a correct displaying of my normalmap.

But there are still areas around the eye, that are incorrect.

 

I Invert the Bump Node, too.

post-24378-0-56764100-1385123503_thumb.j

Now it looks as it should be. Nearly like the same as in 3d Coat.

 

As far as i see in the last tests.

My export options

post-24378-0-10332000-1385124739_thumb.j

 

GLSL in 2.49 works correctly with that Normalmaps.

GLSL in 2.69 works correctly with that Normalmaps.

Yafaray in 2.69 works correctly with that Normalmaps.

Cycles in 2.69 works incorrectly with that Normalmaps.

I think, Cycles is still on the wrong side.

 

Sure i could us a different export in 3d coat for cycles, but then i have to invert the normalmap again for my games.

But my games have a higher priority as Blender/Cycles, it makes at all no sense to use a different export.

It is not a big problem for me to invert the green chanel.

Edited by Malo

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But, still can't understand 

GSLS, BI and cycles use the same tangent space. 

What about the inverted bumps? This is more weird. 

 

On your bump -displacement map, blacks are for lower and whites are for upper areas, right? 

If yes, cycles, BI, GLSL (and the displacement modifier), all will work right without inverting. 

If not, there is one possible reason only. Inverted normals of surfaces. 

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Ah, I understand now by seeing your settings and reading some of your posting again.

 

You choose the 3DC normals calculation and 3DMax / LW export because your games models normal maps have the highest priority...

Then you just invert the green channel in Blender. 

Got it thanks...

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GLSL in 2.69 works correctly with that Normalmaps.

 

GLSL is compatible with cycles, BI, it works right if you export a maya-blender compatible export of 3dcoat. 

GLSL is compatible with Cycles, BI, when importing bumps-displacements from 3dcoat. Grey = 0 displacement, Positive values in cycles, BI, GLSL is the right way to go. 

 

@Malo

You are doing something very wrong, obviously. 

I can't help you more. You better ask for further help in the blenderartists forum. 

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Thanks for the reply.

But i dont do something wrong.

For me and my games everything works as it should.

 

The only wrong on this cycles setup is, that it wont fit with my game models export settings.

As i said, the Game Engines for my games have a higher priotiry as Blender/Cycles.

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No Malo

What you said was 

GLSL in 2.49 works correctly with that Normalmaps.

GLSL in 2.69 works correctly with that Normalmaps.

Yafaray in 2.69 works correctly with that Normalmaps.

Cycles in 2.69 works incorrectly with that Normalmaps.

I think, Cycles is still on the wrong side.

 

 

Which is wrong. 

GLSL BI and Cycles are compatible to the blender baking engine (else we should through blender out of the window) 

They are also compatible with the maya-blender exports of 3dcoat, BOTH NORMAL AND BUMP MAPS! 

 

If Maya and blender are on the wrong side, well… it is irrelevant to the thread. 

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Sorry my fault, GLSL in 2.69 is "wrong" too.

 

Yes thats right, it is irrelevant.

You ask why and i have tried to answer your question.

 

Both Export Setups are correctly.

Maya-Blender for Cycles

Max-Lightwave for Game Engines.

 

 

@Your Node-Setup

I think it is a wrong way, to generate the Bump from the diffuse texture.

It goes from the Diffuse Texture Input over a Multiply into the Bump High Node.

Wouldn´t it be better to use a separat Image Texture Node for that?

Now the high informaton comes from the paintet color and not from the surface depth itself.

This could create some wrong high informations on the render.

 

Or why did you do that?

Edited by Malo

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yeah a bump coming from diffuse. 

I think I turned it to 0 (off) 

Well, I leave it to your creativity. 

Cycles is not a video game previewer

You may wish to paint some bumpy texture and need a little bumpiness. 

On a following setup I could demonstrate how to use a box mapped texture, then you might use it as bump to. 

 

A nice sculpt in marble. 

What you gonna need for a fast, yet decent preview? 

Or…

What about connecting cycles into 3dcoat? what about these box mapped ready shaders in 3dcoat? 

 

See my point? 

What do we need in cycles to recreate a 3dcoat scene? Like in 3dc render room? 

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I think a Applink to Cycles is easier and better as to integrate Cycles into 3d coat.

The Node System is very strong, 3d coat didn´t have that.

And if you have your models into blender you could use the other features to create a nice animation or something else that 3d coat cant do.

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I think a Applink to Cycles is easier and better as to integrate Cycles into 3d coat.

The Node System is very strong, 3d coat didn´t have that.

And if you have your models into blender you could use the other features to create a nice animation or something else that 3d coat cant do.

I think the concept is to use Cycles within 3D Coat (as a plugin?) as a powerful rendering option directly in the app, itself. Not everyone wants to fool with Blender, because of it's strange UI and reliance on hotkeys to do most everything. Me personally....I'm not interested in having to learn a mess of hotkey combinations, just to get around/work in an app. It's been the No.1 obstacle for me, regarding Blender. I already have to remember hotkeys for Max, 3D Coat, Photoshop, After Effects, Premiere Pro k,etc....and none of those are necessary to work in the app. With Blender, it's designed to rely on hotkey usage and it's a big turn-off for me.

 

I'm hoping that the new UI design group for Blender can make the app more accessible to new users. I'm definitely intrigued.

 

So, anyhow....one could have the power of Cycles in 3D Coat. Not sure whether or not the nodal shading/material component of Cycles will come along with it or not. Only Raul knows. But it also should open doors into Blender for those who want to take it further (Character Animation, Particles, Fluid/Smoke/Fire simulations, compositing, etc.)

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anyway i think that 3DC need a default biased AND unbiased render alternative.

 

but glimpsing the future... all the shader system need a twist... multilayer shader support anyone ?

 

0001036: Multilayer shader support

http://3d-coat.com/mantis/view.php?id=1036

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