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Javis

Descriptions and Language, Input Wanted

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Hi all,

 

I'm going through the entire UI looking for any kind of tools or descriptions that are incorrect, or even slightly incorrect, and fixing them for 4.2. Anything that looks or sounds wrong, let me know. We want to have these kinds of things fixed for 4.2. It could be:

  • An English typo
  • A mis-labeled tool or function
  • An incorrect description of a tool or function
  • Improper English grammar

 

I've gotten quite a few fixed already, but I am only one person and more eyes are better than two. :) So if you have input, I would really appreciate it. We want to have a good solid core to translate from and for things to be as clear as possible for all users.

 

When you post anything regarding this, please keep it to one issue per post, please also include how this might be better described/named/etc.. Also please include the current tool or function name, and where it is in the app/UI.

 

 

Thanks!

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I duno if valid...but

An incorrect description of a tool or function

 

Rename MERGING to BAKING

http://3d-coat.com/mantis/view_all_bug_page.php

 

Rename VOXEL ROOM to SCULPT ROOM

http://3d-coat.com/mantis/view_all_bug_page.php

 

"Materials" popup, which is listed as "Object Materials (Surfaces)" in the "Windows" menu, should be renamed SURFACES

http://3d-coat.com/mantis/view.php?id=797

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I hope you guys are aware all this is gonna impact on user's understanding of the manual...

So if I were you I would just stick to typos and incorrect tips/descriptions (and I think this is what Javis is asking here...)

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I kind of am, but there are some things in the application that are just completely incorrectly named and should be fixed. I know it will make a huge impact on some things, but some areas it must be changed. The merging/baking thing is a good example. Layer linking is another. Andrew is open to it, and while it may be a little annoying at first for the existing users, I think new users will have an easier time picking things up, because the language will hopefully be a little more streamlined, or aligned, with some other applications people are familiar with (PS where applicable, Modo/maya/etc.).

 

 

With the list I am creating, it should be a lot easier to reference the old names with the new names, and make it easier to change the manual, and for existing users to get up to speed. I'll post the change log online.

 

 

Of course, I promise not to make too drastic a change, if possible.

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+1 for the renaming of MERGE to BAKE

 

Just very confusing terminology. I'm working with 3d programs and baking processes professionally for over 10 years now, and had no idea initially what e.g. "merge with normal map" is supposed to mean.

 

It should read "Bake to Normal Map".

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+1 for renaming the stuff carlosan brought up.

 

It's little things like this that will help people pick up this awesome program.

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Remember that "Merge" in 3D Coat can also mean "Import", depending on the context.

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I agree will all those changes and always had...

 

Im just saying changing those stuff can make a lot of the educational material available at this point irrelevant..not just manual but a lot of videos too.

What is going to happen when somebody watch a video about "merging with normal map" and does not find the said thing in the program..

Im not talking about pros here but hobbyist and new users which are big part of 3DC market.

I just think its a risky move when a new update is about to come up to change the functional terminology of the program..
(room names ect..)

(again I've always agreed with such changes but...I think they should have been made sooner...or if they are to be made they should coincide with totally updated tutorials/manual (which I dont think is gonna happen soon...)

 

Personnaly I really dont care, I know 3DCoat by heart and could navigate in 3DCoat with the chinese interface :).

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when somebody watch a video about "merging with normal map" think... what is that ?

 

when somebody watch a video about "merging with normal map" and find BAKE... think... ah ok, merge is bake now... i know what is bake, lets do it.

 

my humble point of view.

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when somebody watch a video about "merging with normal map" think... what is that ?

Merging is a global concept throughout 3DCoat with the meaning of being created into.

Perhaps adding the target room in description of the above case may help clarify the construct of the operation.

Whether it stays as merge or bake is of less concern to me than including the target room of such an operation in this particular context.

I seem to remember that confused me when first new to 3d coat i.e when in most rooms merge meant import whereas in the above context merge means export from one room to an import of another -  clarifying the target should clear up such confusion?

 

I'll take a look at the descriptions to see whether I have any suggestions but names should stay.

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Back with some suggestions concerning hover tool descriptions.

 

Voxel Sculpting Room

------------------------------

 

------------------------------------

Primitives - description currently reads "add simple primitives, to scene" - should also include "model library meshes,spline library meshes and lathe objects"

in the tab itself
Use "Models" and Spline tabs to choose custom primitives" - change that to meshes

 

------------------------------------

All tools such as grow build etc should include whether they work to normals or to camera view - understanding this is important in the expectation of the tool. Preferably Andrew will add either option to all tools in the future .
------------------------------------

Smudge Tool - add a description to suggest that it can smudge/ pull to direction as well as smudge/smooth using small side to side strokes

------------------------------------
Bas-relief -suggested description : "directional taper or squash at arrow end of tool when coefficient is set higher or lower than 1. Ball end of tool always extrudes profile high points of form to ball position and direction"

------------------------------------
Curve Tool - there is currently no tool hover description of what the curve tool actually is - merely operational concerns

------------------------------------

vox extrude - currently has no description and it also seems to shunt you after operation in to surface room quite unexpectedly

 

---------------------------------

vox layer- description should include suggestion with regards whether ignore backface options should be chosen with e-panel selection mode

---------------------------------

the logo tool hover description needs fleshing out to include the description specifics contained with the operation interface itself

 

--------------------

Voxel Menu > symm copy - description does not include that symmetry mode must be engaged , which symmetry side is copied and the importance of setting volumes to global space to correct issues

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No native speaker here but there's a few old oversights still in place...

lazer cut instead of laser cut, bass relief instead of base relief,  flop instead of flip...

Typos are near to the cursor in the screenshots.

post-575-0-79652900-1393858753_thumb.jpg

post-575-0-66091000-1393858774_thumb.jpg

post-575-0-29366000-1393858789_thumb.jpg

Edited by polyxo

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Personnaly I really dont care, I know 3DCoat by heart and could navigate in 3DCoat with the chinese interface :).

 

I'm sure many are that familiar with 3dc, but i for one am constantly tripping over the odd menu locations, strange grammar and bizarre default values of this app. the UI needs to be as correct as possible, and if that impacts the tutorials/manual then so be it, documentation in general is obsolete the instant it is published anyway, best you can hope for is to keep it as current as possible

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I think if the commands where called "bake" then a lot less tutorials would be needed. Granted for hobbyist that might be a different story, but i think if you keep the menu item in the same place and the rest of the words are the same, most people should be fine.

 

Also you can add (merge) or (sculpt) in brackets at the end of the new titles. If its really such an issue. and then remove them a few versions down. But i think the earlier this gets done the less painful the process will be. There will only be more and more training material as time goes by.

Edited by Aleksey

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paint room

 

More/Less on heights

 

must be named

 

More/Less on Depth heights

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Why not make a list of changed names/terms under the help menu?  "Bake: used to be call Merge ......... "  A newer user doing a tutorial could look there if they can't find the menu item and get some clues to where/what it is.  The developers know what the old name/term was, what the new one is, and what it's supposed to do, so it doesn't appear (to me) to be too difficult.   

Edited by jaf
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That's the plan, I already mentioned that in one of my posts above. ;)

 

 

Thanks everyone for the input thus far, it's much appreciated.

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Looks like the changes will be in the next build. :) I tried to incorporate as many as I could from here that made sense.

 

 

Feel free to add more over time. I plan to make logical changes as time goes.

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FWIW, a public notice will be posted at some point with the changes, but in the mean time this should help you get acquainted ahead of time (there are more changes, but here are the important ones I documented):

 

  • Voxel Room is now Sculpt Room
  • Masks are now Stamps
  • Materials are now Stencils
  • Materials (surfaces) are now Surface Materials
  • Layer Linking is now Clip Masking (in line with PS functionality and naming)
  • Line Mode is now Gradient Mode
  • Vary color each stroke is now Vary color per stroke

 

  • All paint room tools have names or updated names:
    • Brush Tool
    • Pencil Tool
    • Airbrush Tool
    • Color Operations Tool
    • Zoom Tool
    • Shift Tool
    • Clone Tool
    • Transform/Copy Tool
    • Copy/Paste Tool
    • Spline Paint Tool
    • Spline Text Tool
    • Spline Image Tool
    • Eraser Tool
    • Hide Poly Tool
    • Freeze Tool
    • Fill Tool
    • Magic Wand Tool
    • Sampler Tool
    • Normal Flatten Tool
    • Topological Symmetry Tool
    • Measure Distance Tool

 

  • "E" Panel is now named such

 

  • "E" Panel modes now all have names:
    • Radius & Depth Pressure
    • Depth & Opacity Pressure
    • Radepacity Pressure (short for Radius+Depth+Opacity) **puts on fire retardant suit**
    • Droplet Pressure
    • Constant Pressure
    • Dot Stroke
    • Vertex Lines
    • Vertex Curves
    • Curve Stroke
    • Stamp Mode
    • Stamp Drag Mode
    • Square Lasso
    • Rectangle Lasso
    • Vertex Lasso
    • Stroke Lasso
    • Circle Lasso
    • Ellipse Lasso
    • Closed Spline
    • 3D Closed Spline
    • Single Polygon

 

 

  • Renamed anything "carcass" to be more inline with the function it was describing
  • "merging" is now more descriptive for what it does:
    • Merge to import is now Import
    • Merge to bake is now Bake
    • Merge to combine is still Merge (vox boolean op related)

 

 

  • General UI:
    • Capitalized numerous UI elements, description nouns, titles, etc.
    • Updated some tool or function descriptions
    • Gave description to a couple of things that didn't have a description at all

 

 

  • Top Bar:
    • Opacity is now Color Opacity
    • Specular is now Spec. Intensity (thinking about Spec. Gloss)
    • Specular Opacity is now Spec. Opacity
    • Invert tool function is now Invert Tool
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I agree!

 

If anyone else has anything they've found that is inconsistent, hard to understand because of language or wording, or just plain weird, let me know! I'll get it fixed if possible.

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