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Malo

[Solved] Help with Bevel an object

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Hi

 

I have some trouble to create some nice chamfers on my object.

 

post-24378-0-64104100-1399922270_thumb.j

See red lines.

 

I have tried some stuff, but nothing works great.

 

I get a nice result with the Carve tool and stroke splines. but i alway get some ugly corners.

Flatten works nice too, but it is much work and and i dont get a clean well sized chamfer around my object.

 

Did anybody have some ideas for me to create a chamfer in an easy way?

 

Cheers

Malo

 

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the new pose tool should be able to do a great job of that i think, duplicate the object first.. hide it and pose the second one with a gradient that is heavy to one colour and it should just bevel it straight and clean, then use the duplicates to boolean in and fix any pieces.. other than a few more subtractive boolean methods that's all i can think of.. .. exporting your object for use in 3DSmax or maya, and creating another OBJ, using their precision.. then just export that into 3DCoat and subtractive boolean

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Hi

 

I have some trouble to create some nice chamfers on my object.

 

attachicon.gifBevel.jpg

See red lines.

 

I have tried some stuff, but nothing works great.

 

I get a nice result with the Carve tool and stroke splines. but i alway get some ugly corners.

Flatten works nice too, but it is much work and and i dont get a clean well sized chamfer around my object.

 

Did anybody have some ideas for me to create a chamfer in an easy way?

 

Cheers

Malo

As mentioned before, you can use the Pose tool to get some nice bevels. But you could also use the Spline Stroke draw mode, in conjunction with the Flatten brush (surface mode) or others. Also, the Curves tool is a nice way to go. You can create some Cutter profile objects > drag and drop into Splines pallet, and use to replicate along the path.

 

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For something like that I would model in a modeling package and use a bevel tool on the edges.

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This is something i do really miss in 3DCoat. Some kind of modeling room to create base poly meshes and box modeling. That would be really amazing to have. :)

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Looks like some artists have gotten pretty good at beveling in 3D Coat without the help of a major 3D App...

 

 

post-1118-0-84641400-1399993671_thumb.jp

post-1118-0-70005500-1399993684_thumb.jp

post-1118-0-05712900-1399993718_thumb.jp

post-1118-0-44668900-1399993727_thumb.jp

post-1118-0-67097600-1399993754_thumb.jp

post-1118-0-18445300-1399993779_thumb.jp

post-1118-0-27553200-1399993789_thumb.jp

post-1118-0-72822200-1399993802_thumb.jp

post-1118-0-72187900-1399993812_thumb.pn

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This is something i do really miss in 3DCoat. Some kind of modeling room to create base poly meshes and box modeling. That would be really amazing to have. :)

As you can see in the previous video, you have a number of different ways to bevel/chamfer in the Voxel room, but if you really prefer to poly model inside 3D Coat, you can do so in the Retopo Room. It's primary purpose is to apply new topology over a voxel model, but it can build geometry without it. You can go to the WINDOWS Menu > POPUPS > MODELS > dock it wherever you prefer > click on your preferred primitive and start modeling much like you would in most 3D Apps. In the SELECT tool, you can choose which sub-object mode you want to work in. You may want to assign hotkeys to those sub-objects, to make things more efficient. Same thing with the TRANSFORM tool. Assign a hotkey, cause to model something, obviously you are going to want to use that tool a lot.

 

Once you are ready to drop your selection and perform another operation, you need to hit ESC to drop/inactivate the TRANSFORM tool. In some sub-object modes, you have different commands that appear (contextually) at the bottom of the tool panel. One very important one is FREE EXTRUDE. It is very much like the EXTRUDE tool in Maya, or the BEVEL tool in 3ds Max. There are a bunch of request I've submitted to Andrew on Mantis (3d-coat.com/mantis), for even more refined tools...especially is someone wants to model in the Retopo room. You could add your "+1" to each of them, if you too would like to see them added as well...things such as a SHELL modifier/tool (to quickly add thickness to a model), and SHIFT + drag to extrude edges on the fly with the TRANSFORM tool active.

 

http://3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=14525

 

Some of the relevant Manul Retopo tools are mentioned in this video, starting about half way into it:

 

 

Kitbashing in the Retopo Room:

 

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First of all, thanks to all for the replys and help.

But still i am not happy.

 

Flatten wont works, or only with much knowhow and the right feeling in sculpting.

Not sure how i should call it.

post-24378-0-21970900-1399999665_thumb.j

 

Carve and Strokes works good as long as you need small chamfers.

post-24378-0-95413400-1399999738_thumb.j

 

But as bigger you need it, as more disortet it gets.

post-24378-0-44926400-1399999803_thumb.j

 

Pose Tool is nice, but not for a job like this.

post-24378-0-43139000-1399999872_thumb.j

Pose Tool only works on cenvex or concave shapes but not in a mix between that shapes.

Take a look in the red area. It is impossible to scale it inward and outwards at the same time.

 

Javis idea with switching to a polygon modeller sound since but i am not a big fan of switching differtent apps for a job.

The other thing is, i think i would be not able to create a chamfer in a different package. The voxelexport is to ugly on shapes like these.

A rebuild in an other app would be much easier, but i am still not a fan of it.

 

Retopo Room and merge as new object? Maybe, but same as above.

 

@ABN

The pictures you have postet didn´t use much chamfers, and the chamfers that are used, are createt on simple objects or shapes.

And i think rounded bevels are always easy.

 

Any other ideas?

Edited by Malo

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@ABN

The pictures you have postet didn´t use much chamfers, and the chamfers that are used, are createt on simple objects or shapes.

And i think rounded bevels are always easy.

 

Any other ideas?

There are no chamfers on a detailed weapon or a robot?  :blink:  Could have sworn I used them on my XM8 model...the same way (pretty much) I'd use the Chamfer tool in 3ds Max. To make large or small bevels. You do realize you could use the spline stroke + Smooth brush to create soft curved bevels, too. You can always use the spline stroke or closed spline to select and area > FREEZE tool > CTRL + SHIFT + I .....to invert the selection, where just the area you want to bevel is unfrozen. You could use the Transform tool or Smooth.

 

Just a number of different ways to skin that cat. Could you do a screen recroding to show exactly what it is you are trying to achieve? I've been able to bevel/chamfer in 3D Coat for years now, so I'm not seeing the difficulty you're experiencing.

post-1118-0-90429500-1400003179_thumb.pn

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You can also use the Spline Strokes or Closed Spline draw modes to make the same type of selections with the Pose tool, using the "Select with Pen" mode.

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Have you ever tested what i am trying to do or to explain?

Spline Strokes and Pose Tool wont works on a shape like this, impossible.

 

Your XM8 have some nice rounded bevels on the handle and the scope, thats true and your weapon looks realy great, but i still see no chamfers.

 

I am not sure, maybe there is a missunderstanding. Translation Bug or something else.

I want to sculp a chamfer. For my understanding a chamfer is this.

post-24378-0-24230100-1400007533_thumb.j

I dont need that rounded bevel on my edges.

 

In my case.

I want to get from this.

post-24378-0-85180300-1400006840_thumb.j

 

to this.

post-24378-0-46499400-1400006853_thumb.j

Thanks Javis.

 

Ok, now i have what i want, i have switched the app because in 3d coat it is impossible to do that. Maybe in retopo but not in Voxel Room.

But anyway, it would be still nice to know how to create easy a chamfer on an object like mine.

 

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Have you ever tested what i am trying to do or to explain?

Spline Strokes and Pose Tool wont works on a shape like this, impossible.

 

Your XM8 have some nice rounded bevels on the handle and the scope, thats true and your weapon looks realy great, but i still see no chamfers.

 

I am not sure, maybe there is a missunderstanding. Translation Bug or something else.

I want to sculp a chamfer. For my understanding a chamfer is this.

attachicon.gifbevelfin3.jpg

I dont need that rounded bevel on my edges.

 

In my case.

I want to get from this.

attachicon.gifbevelfin1.jpg

 

to this.

attachicon.gifbevelfin2.jpg

Thanks Javis.

 

Ok, now i have what i want, i have switched the app because in 3d coat it is impossible to do that. Maybe in retopo but not in Voxel Room.

But anyway, it would be still nice to know how to create easy a chamfer on an object like mine.

In 3ds Max, Chamfer = Bevel. Can you send me a copy of the object, via PM? I'll see what I can come up with. I think using the Spline Stroke + Flatten Brush will do the trick, but it will probably require a few additional points where you have sharp angles of convergence. You could also use the PLANE tool to make rather quick work of it as well...since you are not interested in creating a soft bevel. I might apply a FREEZE selection to the areas you want to protect, beforehand.

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You can skip to about half way through the video to see how it might best be applied. Remember, you can use your selection draw modes in conjunction with this tool. So a Polygonal lasso draw mode might work best:

 

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Every program has it's weak areas and bevelling irregular shapes as your's is a weaker area in 3DC. Not impossible but harder for sure.

 

"Javis idea with switching to a polygon modeller sound since but i am not a big fan of switching differtent apps for a job."

 

 Just for information for other users of what is possible using an external modeller.

 

3DC can import Chamfer bevels but you have to prepare the model by using hard edges where needed and then subdividing the model a few times in your modelling software so it retains the shape when importing into the voxel room for voxels or surface mode.You keep the low polygon version of the model to be used as your retopo mesh. I am not saying use this method as you stated you did not want to use another modeller but it is possible to import bevels from a modelling package.

 

For the above method...

Voxel Mode:

Just enlarge the model to capture clean bevel edges. I used about 650,000 voxels for the image shown.

 

Surface Mode:

3DC when importing a model into surface mode subdivide the model (higher polygon version) a few times to increase polygon count or use the resample tool after merging.

 

I do hope at some time Andrew can give us some kind of edge bevelling tool though how hard that would be to do, I would not know, not a programmer here.

 

Model not shown for quality but just to show importing nice chamfer bevels are possible in voxel or surface mode. The image shown is imported in voxel mode.

The yellow lines are the edges that I turned into hard edges.

post-518-0-33278400-1400021362_thumb.png

Edited by digman
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Thanks for the reply Digman.

Yes, every app have problems and nothing works 100% correctly in all areas. I know that from Blender.

Anyway, this was the first time a reach an end in 3d coat, on that i could not help me without changing the software.

 

I did today another test.

I create a retopo of my object and make usage of bevel in the Retopo Room. Then i merged it back into the Voxel Room.

It was quicker and easier to do as i was thinking. Sure it is not as much accurat as in a polygon Modeller but it did the job very well.

 

@ABN

Would be realy nice if you could take a look over the object and share your results with us.

I am sure , i learn something new from you.

 

The zip file is in the attached files.

 

Griff.zip

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After doing a little testing, it is more difficult to get good results than it should be, on an irregular shaped object like this. It's because the Curves tool isn't really well thought out, and the Spline Draw modes needs more polishing. It's curves rather finicky in sharp angle of convergence, like this. As you can see, it will fight with you in right angle corners. It's not any better with the Curves tool.

 

So, both need to be polished up/re-worked to accommodate these kinds of issues.

 

Going to try to use the Freeze tool option and the Pose tool

 

 

post-1118-0-06150000-1400096874_thumb.jp

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Malo, on 13 May 2014 - 10:04 AM, said:

    Javis idea with switching to a polygon modeller sound since but i am not a big fan of switching differtent apps for a job.

    The other thing is, i think i would be not able to create a chamfer in a different package. The voxelexport is to ugly on shapes like these.

    A rebuild in an other app would be much easier, but i am still not a fan of it.

    Retopo Room and merge as new object? Maybe, but same as above.

 

 

I hear that completely. It can be a real pain sometimes. I always weigh whether it will be faster or beneficial to export and do something in another app, then bring it back again. Most times it seems to give the exact result I need/want, and saves time. :)

 

 

I did today another test.

I create a retopo of my object and make usage of bevel in the Retopo Room. Then i merged it back into the Voxel Room.

It was quicker and easier to do as i was thinking. Sure it is not as much accurat as in a polygon Modeller but it did the job very well.

 

Sounds like a decent solution!

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Many thanks ABN for your time to test my object.

It is sad that you run into the same problems as i do. I was hoping you find a nice solution with your knowledge.

 

@Javis

Yes, it is. Maybe i should use the merging from Retopo Room more often.

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Many thanks ABN for your time to test my object.

It is sad that you run into the same problems as i do. I was hoping you find a nice solution with your knowledge.

 

@Javis

Yes, it is. Maybe i should use the merging from Retopo Room more often.

I found that, overall, it works nicely. It's just those darn corners are problematic for curve or spline-based tools. I recorded a video demonstrating the problems it was giving me, and sent it to Andrew. He said he would try to fix it soon, but it would be a good idea to add it to Mantis. I'm at a point where I'm not going to bother adding things to Mantis. Too much time wasted in the past, even recording videos to show where the problem is or how the tool works in another 3D app. They just go largely ignored. Until something changes on that front, I'm not fooling with Mantis anymore.

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Arrg! Your position in the forum makes your statement too important for the Mantis reports. I know you can't take it back but is all the work switching to the 4.1 section going to be wasted?

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I'm just referring to Mantis reports in general. It's been a lot of wasted time and effort in my experience. Beat Kitno would tell you the same.

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After some further testing today, I was able to finesse the areas where it was scaling in the wrong direction, by simply moving the FFD cage points to correct it. Granted, in the image examples, I had a soft gradient selection, and thus it created a more rounded bevel. But by making a sharper selection, you can make is a sharper bevel

post-1118-0-70095400-1400185319_thumb.jp

post-1118-0-23957200-1400185328_thumb.jp

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