Advanced Member Gian-Reto Posted July 23, 2014 Advanced Member Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 I am currently doing some hardsurface modelling with voxels again, and while I am getting finally pretty comfortable with the basic hardsurface stuff, and loving the new lathe tool, some things still pose a big challenge. Sometimes you want to do some Kind of "free form" shape, that cannot be composed of simpler shape, similar to what is sculpted here in Blender (a boat basically): http://gryllus.net/Blender/PDFTutorials/13A_NURBS_SailboatOnOcean/NURBS_Sailboat.pdf I have seen that the nurbs modelling tools in Boxmodelling tools like blender allow a lot of complex shapes to be created, and something like that might just be what I am looking for to speed up my process and remove the need to pull out the smooth brush (which will never really leave a clean surface for non-organic modelling). Now I am sure I only scratched the surface of what is possible with the 3D Coat Voxel modelling, I have not come across a tool yet in 3D Coat that can really replicate what the nurbs modelling tools in Blender can do. Is there such a tool in 3D Coat? did I miss that (highly likely as I still need to figure what the surface mode really does for example ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Aabel Posted July 23, 2014 Member Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 A combination of the sketch tool, booleans and cut off with e panel curves should get you to a result in the pdf you linked As a side note if you like Nurbs modeling you should check out MoI, it's a very intuitive nurbs modeler with a phenomenal meshing algorithm to get data out of MoI and into polygonal packages with great results. I use it in combination with 3d coat for certain types of forms. http://moi3d.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 Is a feature request 0000616: Possibility to create and manipulate nurbs surfaces and transform them to voxels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted July 23, 2014 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 The Primitives tool has Freeform Deformation capabilities, as does the Pose Tool. In this sense, it is very NURBS-like, in that you have a small number of control points that help manipulate the overall shape. I've asked Andrew a number of times for greater control of the FFD lattice in the Pose tool (pre-shape the Lattice at a point or segment level, to make it conform to the object better...and put the control points right where you want to make adjustments), and let us add as many segments as we need per axis. If he does that, it will go a LLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNG way to giving the user Psuedo NURBS capability. I also would like to see a Spline Deformer (which is very NURBS-like as well): http://3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=15672 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Gian-Reto Posted July 23, 2014 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 guys, amazingly useful responses as expected from the 3dc community ... thanks a lot! forgot about the free form capabilities... will give it a try. I also have to check out Aabels suggestions... heard about Moi before but never really looked into it. Carlosan, I gave your feature request a big +1 in Mantis. Having this capalities available firectly in the Voxel room would really speed up things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted July 23, 2014 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 The great thing about the FFD capabilities in the Primitives tool is, it turns ANY model you have into a FFD Primitive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted July 23, 2014 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 ...and you can arbitrarily assign as many control segments as you need along any given axis. Pretty powerful, and one of those hidden gems in 3D Coat Here is an updated look at the Sketch tool, as well: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted July 23, 2014 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 ...and for what it's worth, I know Pilgway was and perhaps still is, very serious about implementing a NURBS toolset in 3D Coat so some users could export to manufacturing standard formats...like STEP, IGES and maybe CATIA. Andrew recently hired some new programmers, so that might be a sign that this effort is already underway. It will probably take Andrew a while to get those programmers up to speed with the code in 3D Coat...so, some degree of patience will be needed, naturally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Gian-Reto Posted July 24, 2014 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) Sadly all the techniques shown in this thread don't give me the Control I am looking for. Don't get me wrong, you can do a lot with the Freeform tool and other primitives combined with boolean Cutoffs. But at some point, you lack the control to really get clean edges and rounded corners. This is where a true NURBS Tool would really fill a gap in the Voxel toolset, so its good to hear that Andrew thought about it and maybe somebody is already working on it. Importing external models always has been a mixed bag for me. Altough the Voxelization of 3D Coat is mostly good, getting a clean surface is sometims hard when you really need to keep the general outline and the hard edges of the imported model. MoI looks very promising though, I will definitely give it a try. Its a little expensive just as a bridging solution until Andrew adds similar functionality to 3D Coat, but as I need this functionailty now and I really dislike Blender for Modelling (the normal calculations of smooth surfaces looks off to me... maybe I am doing it wrong though), I might stick to it if I get to like it during the trial period. It really seems to do what I need. Now, if only 3D Coat could import CAD File Formats .... Edited July 24, 2014 by Gian-Reto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 Free Cad http://sourceforge.net/projects/free-cad/ Nano-Cad http://nanocad.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted July 24, 2014 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 I like some aspects of NURBS, but man...those in 3ds Max drove me nuts! I then bought an expensive plugin for better NURBS in 3ds Max, called PowerNURBS Pro. It's a nice toolset, but I hate it, too. It's a huge improvement over the default ones in Max, but you still have to do a lot of stitching of shapes together and it can be a hairy mess. I can see why much of the CG industry left NURBS behind, for the most part. I think Andrew just needs to enable the user to have more control with the FFD lattices. It's been a journey, as instead of him taking his time to fully develop the entire toolset, he does it in spots here and there. He'll drop one of your requests to improve it and move on to another part of the app. And sometimes it may take a year or few to see him return to consider the changes you asked for 2-3yrs ago. He needs to go through the rooms systematically, and polish all the tools. Hopefully, with the new development help, he can do that at some point in the near future. I've been banging the table for these FFD lattice improvements for a few years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted July 24, 2014 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 I think 90% of the Spline deformer capability already exists in the POSE tool. You can choose SELECT WITH PEN > then from the E-Panel, choose the Spline Stroke draw mode > Create your spline > hit the ENTER key (a gradient selection will be made from it) < use either the standard gizmo to make the transform, or FFD lattice. So, borrowing from those tools, Andrew could enable the user to select loops (like one can with the Strokes tool in the Retopo Room) or create a spline stroke, point by point, manually > Apply the gradient selection (like in the Pose Tool) > Select the nodes/control points, individually, or by group and get a Transform gizmo, just like you do when using the FFD lattice. This would be perfect for trying to model an automobile, IMHO. Something that has been just too difficult to do up to this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 thinking in long term development... and trying to follow you, all those approach are destructive what about a lathe tool technology not working over an axis but a plane ? and not only using one spline, but several ones interconnected ? more... why to use a grid menu popup as an external graphical handle, what if user can move the splines seeing its in the viewport as curves ? wait... what if retopo room surpass the actual function and becomes Shape Room, with more surface modeling added and becomes the center pivot of modeling (merge, pick from retopo to Sculpt room and merge with ppp to paint room) just chit chat... sorry OT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Aabel Posted July 24, 2014 Member Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 Digging around some of the old siggraph stuff I have laying around I got deep in some research threads on implicit modeling and came across this: Warp Curves The little app that the demonstration is built on top of, ShapeShop is very intriguing as well, it goes well beyond mere layer functionality (which is a horrible workflow breaking mess in Zbrush and not all non destructive) and provides real procedural mesh compositing. 3d-Coat is a great app for that kind of Functionality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member alvordr Posted July 24, 2014 Advanced Member Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 Interesting. Carlosan, if I'm understanding you correctly, you're suggesting a way to model in the Retopo room, without the need for a reference mesh? While, in part, this concerns me, in that it might take away focus from what that room is intended to do, it also seems the most appropriate place to put such a function. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted July 25, 2014 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 For the moment, there just isn't enough control of the FFD lattices. If one can reshape the cage to fit the object or selection better...to put control points/segments where you know you want to make some adjustments, then it's suddenly a much more effective tool. In it's current state, one can hit it's limitations rather quickly. After a little thought, I think Andrew might easily (relatively speaking) be able to apply a 3rd deformation control device...SPLINE. Just use the Spline Draw modes as a Spline Deformer. Once you hit the ENTER key (or an APPLY selection button) the Points are then locked to the nearest vertices (the gradient determines the influence %). The points can be selected and transformed with a gizmo, just like the points in an FFD lattice. Would also need the ability to select a point or group of points and with a slider, adjust the expansion/contraction of the selection + adjust the gradient falloff amount. This is already available in most 3D modeling apps If we could lay down an encircling loop with the Spline Draw mode, the same way it's done with the Strokes tool in the Retopo Room, that + this Spline Deformer could be a game changer, IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member alvordr Posted July 25, 2014 Advanced Member Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Sounds like a good plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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