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V4.5 BETA (experimental)


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@ABNRanger

Damn, you are right,

On lower resolution it works much better but as more you go up as more unusable it gets.

I should test more stuff in the future until i say it is good or better.

 

About the caching idea

What about if we work in the oposite way?

I mean everything gets stored on a 8 or 16k map, but you choose the resolution in the viewport you want to work with.

I know you dont like what i am saying next, but Substance Painter works in that way.

You paint in SP with a 1k or 2k map and if you want to export your maps, you switch to 4k, and you get a perfect 4k HD map not an upscaled pixelated 1k or 2k map.

If that would be possible, it would be enough to paint maximal on 4k, but you where always able to export 8k or 16k.

What did you think?

That's pretty much what I was suggesting. Just like it is in the Sculpt Room. Your layer is at the resolution you want it at, but if you need to do some work on it at a lower res level...for performance sake...you can work on a lower res proxy instead. Whatever changes you make just get added to the original. So, in the Paint Room, you could decide to set the maximum size of your maps, but at any time, cache a layer and 3D Coat lets you work on a lower-res version of it. When you uncache it, 3D Coat applies the new changes to the original.

 

It needs something to boost the performance overall...not just sliders, of 4k, 8k and 16k. If Andrew achieved that, you would see more and more and more film studios adopting it overnight. Performance is going to be the first thing they check when looking to adopt a new texture-painting app like this.

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As a point of reference, Mudbox uses something similar, in it's GigaTexel engine. My understanding of it is that if you have a 4k texture map, when you paint, you are actually painting on the 4k map, but the further your camera gets away from the object, the more is down-samples the map shown in the viewport. I just think DX11 has certain technologies like this, which 3D Coat is not tapping into, because it's stuck on the DX9 dinosaur.

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...and right now, for a studio working on cinematics or film shots...such as Blur, working on 8k maps (and not having UV tiling functionality natively) pretty much knocks 3D Coat out of the running.

 

 

You can work with multiple 8k maps. but you need 8 gigs for each map. 

Actually, with a 64 gig pc, i worked on a model with 7*  8k maps. Without any trouble

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You can work with multiple 8k maps. but you need 8 gigs for each map. 

Actually, with a 64 gig pc, i worked on a model with 7*  8k maps. Without any trouble

I use a 6 core (12 threads) i7 @ 4Ghz and 32GB of RAM. RAM size doesn't seem to be the issue. 3D Coat is considerably slower painting on 8k maps, and the sliders (ie., Layer panel - Opacity/Glossiness/Depth, and Adjustment sliders) are practically unusable on 4k maps or greater. This is what I meant. Not that one couldn't actually do some work on 8k+ maps. Just that 3D Coat struggles with them

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Eh? RAM is not the issue? Maybe only to a point, but with how 3DC currently works, it is the issue. If images are not cached, then of course RAM is important and will be and is an issue. Further still, each stroke and all information about that stroke is stored to memory (RAM), each pixel painted, each channel for that pixel, so on and so forth is stored. 3DC stores RGBA, depth, spec/gloss and metalness for each layer. And how many bits per channel? Probably 24 bits. That's a huge amount of data per channel being streamed through the CPU and RAM. Of course large brushes are going to be slow, of course other image manipulation is going to be slower on larger images. The technicality of it makes sense.

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Eh? RAM is not the issue? Maybe only to a point, but with how 3DC currently works, it is the issue. If images are not cached, then of course RAM is important and will be and is an issue. Further still, each stroke and all information about that stroke is stored to memory (RAM), each pixel painted, each channel for that pixel, so on and so forth is stored. 3DC stores RGBA, depth, spec/gloss and metalness for each layer. And how many bits per channel? Probably 24 bits. That's a huge amount of data per channel being streamed through the CPU and RAM. Of course large brushes are going to be slow, of course other image manipulation is going to be slower on larger images. The technicality of it makes sense.

RAM capacity is NOT the issue when using sliders. In the video I posted showing how slow they were, there was no more than 7GB of RAM usage, out of 32GB. So, adding more RAM would not have helped one single bit.

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Nor is RAM capacity the issue when painting with large brushes. I showed Andrew a side by side demonstration between Mudbox and 3D Coat....same model....same size of maps. Mudbox chewed through it like a champ with extremely large brushes. So, yes, there is something that can be done to improve the performance. It's just a question of will it be done.

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Another bug ?

 

Select the 3 channel modes

Depth / Opacity / Gloss

 

values:

Gloss Intensity 100%

Metalness 100%

Opacity 0%

 

> paint

 

Result

Only depth, no Opacity -ok-, but... no Gloss -is right?-, no metalness -is right?-

 

ty

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Very happy with the new higher-resolution preview thumbnails, which make it easier than ever for me to find what I am looking for...it is a pleasure to use!  :)

I can't see this thumbs ! Maybe I need activate some preference before?

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RAM capacity is NOT the issue when using sliders. In the video I posted showing how slow they were, there was no more than 7GB of RAM usage, out of 32GB. So, adding more RAM would not have helped one single bit.

 

 Yes RAM is an issue, yes it's also not entirely the issue. You don't seem to understand how computers work with images. I understand. There is no black and white here. I already explained, I wont try to again.

It's still slow as frozen molasses, here. On a 2k map, it's moderately usable (dragging the value slide to the left or right). 4k maps, it's like....

 

 

 

 

Don. Carlos already asked you politely to stop posting images like that. Stop posting images like that. Thanks for your compliance.

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This might be too obvious, but maybe you're opening from the wrong shortcut or the shortcut is opening from the wrong directory?

 

If you have the latest beta installed in a different directly, go that directly manually, RMB+Drag the version you want to run (I recommend DX Simple, 64bit) to the desktop, when the prompt comes up, choose "Create Shortcut". Then run that shortcut. That should do the trick.

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Can some one please answer my question?

If Javis's way does not work... Read the below.

 

What it looks like is that you installed the beta over version. 4.1.17D...The best thing to do is amend (rename) the 3DC folder under Documents and Settings if you use Windows. I have now been a linux user for sometime so the Window stuff is fading. Yes, normally we would install over the current version but with PBR  we can not do the old route.

 

Now install the beta and it will run as it installed a new 3DC folder. No corruption of the 3DC folder.

 

If you did install the beta over 4.1.17D then you might have to uninstall that version completely plus remove the 3DC folder in the above location. Yes, you would lose all your settings. Hopefully you have been keeping a backup of copy of the 3DC folder, then you would not have to uninstall but simply replace the good folder with the now screwed up one.

I would imagine Windows still has a roll back feature. That would be another way so you do not lose all your settings....

If you want to keep version 4.1.17D and test the new beta... Rename the 3DC folder as I stated earlier.Then install the beta..

When ever you want to use 4.1.17D then just rename the beta 3DC folder and as stated earlier and rename the 4.1.17D 3DC folder back to it's original name.

 

This is the method I use but in Linux so I can test the new beta but keep version 4.1.17D. In the case keeping things separate is happy... ;)

 

Edit: Sorry for some of my goofy wording. I promise I will check the text better before posting. A classic case of fingers typing faster than my brain functions. :wacko:

Edited by digman
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4.5 BETA10

- Fixed possible lag in PBR preview window (fps dropdown to 25 even if nothing changed).
- Materials gizmo is now over all windows including UV editor.
- Toggle visibility / ghosting / isolate is in Geometry menu, hotkey may be assigned.
- Layers dialog corrected - metal opacity had wrong aligning.
- Left align in VoxTree, no flickering during resize.
- Fixed problem of icons disappearing in voxtree.
- Hotkeys may be assigned to VoxTree->Merge,Subtract etc functions.
- Fixed symmetry pivot picking - it was remaining pen spot after picking.

and main change that is very important for painters:
 

paintdiff.png

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