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V4.5 BETA (experimental)


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Actually opacity does not influence gloss/metall values itself.

It is opacity of g/m application.

How do you think, g/m requires additionlal slider for own opacity? It was there actually, I removed it to avoid cluttering.

If opacity is 0 nothing will be painted. Because it is opacity for ALL.

Do I need separate opacity for gloss/met?

 

All opinion are welcome.

 

ty

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From Andrew on Mantis

After long thinking, i have to say it is true.

If you lower diffuse opacity, you have to lower metalness, roughness and depth, too.

Think about that.

You have 50% leather that looks through 50% gold.

If you see gold and leather at the same time, gold cant be 100% metalness and roughness.

It have to be mixed with the metalness and roughness values from leather.

 

But where in the whole world did you see a constellation like that?

I have never seen 50% gold, i only see 100% or 0% gold. Something is golden or not.

Same with leather, if leather is not 100% leather, it is no leather.

 

I would not separate the Values or create extra sliders.

You have to follow some rules on texturing in PBR and something like that could break the technic behind that.

 

Edit:

For more information

http://www.allegorithmic.com/pbr-guide

Edited by Malo
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Thats true, but if you paint with 50% opacity, metal and rough have to set to 50%, too.

But it is incorrect if you paint with 50% opacity, but stay at 100% metalness and roughness.

 

Maybe i am wrong, but i think so.

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implement substances is not a technical impediment but business.

And the decision must be take by Allegorithmic not Pilgway.

 

back to the question: separate opacity for gloss/met ?

yes.. no... all opinion are welcome, and to add a note at Mantis is appreciated.

 

ty all.

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4.5 Beta11: Selecting "UV Mapping" as the preferred Mapping Method in the PBR Material Editor does not seem to have any effect. It looks correctly in the preview window, but when a paint layer is filled using that material the Textures will be applied using the Cube Mapping Method instead.

Edited by wilson66
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Im lost with that ticket, following Unreal guide:

 

In terms of the "physically based" aspect of our Materials system, there are really only 4 different properties with which you need to be familiar. These are:

- Base Color

- Roughness

- Metallic

- Specular

All of these inputs are designed to take in values between 0 and 1. In the case of Base Color, this means a color with RGB values that fall between 0 and 1.
 
- Base Color simply defines the overall color of the Material.
- The Roughness input literally controls how rough the Material is.
- The Metallic input literally controls how "metal-like" your surface will be.
- The Specular input is used to scale the current amount of specularity on non-metallic surfaces. It has no effect on metals.
 
How this apply to 3DC workflow ?
Ty in advance to any reply.
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There are two PBR workflows - metalness/roughness and specular/glossiness, so don't really understand why for Unreal Engine they are mixed. In 3d-coat you work metalness/roughness workflow, but when done you can export your textures in specular/glossiness workflow. There's a PBR guide from Allegorithmic: http://www.allegorithmic.com/pbr-guide

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In a metal-rough workflow, the specularmap is not needed.

Speculrmap is only needed if you want to changes the hardcoded F0 value of 4% for dielectric materials.

 

Edit:

 

3d coat dont work with metal-rough

Use metal-rough maps in a PBR material and paint with it, You see, it is wrong.

You have to invert the roughness map to work correctly in 3d coat.

Edited by Malo
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I really don't see how that would be of any benefit....to see depth with textures in 2D. You can see that in the 3D viewport where it's most important and beneficial. The reason I say this is because there are so many more substantial features that users have been waiting for years, and I cannot see this jumping ahead of those in line. If I want to see relief, I can see it in the depth map or in the 3D Viewport

 

I gave you the reasons, as did that Feature Request.

 

Depth is

a: more readable.

b: can represent things that normalmaps can not (like DEPTH. Normalmaps can only represent curvature, not depth)

 

And as I've stated: the viewport does NOT display the depth channel as we've requested, it displays a shaded normalmap. It does not display the greyscale source texture as the 'color' or 'specular' or 'metallic' view-modes do.

 

A little bit of reading comprehension does wonders, but in the abscence of that: don't assertively state your opinion untill you're reasonably certain you understand what's being asked.

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Is it possible that this:

3DC_Tile.png

 

Could result in 'Smooth Current Layer' adding these types of artifacts?:

3DC_smooth%20layer.png

 

It's the splotchy, pixelly patches I'm referring to, which sadly didn't go away when I pressed cancel, and Undo didn't work either!

 

Also, 'Smooth Current Layer' did not appear to have any effect on the Depth channel, is it supposed to?

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The uv set error generally means that some of your uv islands are outside the 0 and 1 space of the uv set... Yes, that will cause problems unless you followed the advice in the popup-error dialog box.

Edited by digman
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I gave you the reasons, as did that Feature Request.

 

Depth is

a: more readable.

b: can represent things that normalmaps can not (like DEPTH. Normalmaps can only represent curvature, not depth)

 

And as I've stated: the viewport does NOT display the depth channel as we've requested, it displays a shaded normalmap. It does not display the greyscale source texture as the 'color' or 'specular' or 'metallic' view-modes do.

 

A little bit of reading comprehension does wonders, but in the abscence of that: don't assertively state your opinion untill you're reasonably certain you understand what's being asked.

 

 

I've been terribly ill (still pretty ill) for the last week, and didn't see your request. I'd like to +1 it because it would be immensely helpful to have that. If you could you repost it for me I'd really appreciate it. :)

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I may not be the biggest fan of Mantis and don't feel that it's the most effective way of organizing feedback and improvements, but I will say this...despite my opinions about it, Andrew and crew do a really good job of listening, overall to their community.  It's one of the main reasons I love 3DC.

Edited by alvordr
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Here's a minor problem with materials that's been around for years and apparently carried over to PBR. If you Click the + button to make a new one, then Cancel, it makes a blank thumbnail button.

 

Hope you're better soon Javis!

 

Thanks Phil. :) I'm doing a little better now.

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3D-Coat remains indispensable as we discover little backdoors in pipelines that until now were declared impossible to accomplish, but by these new discoveries we made it possible, leading to closely guarded CGI industry secrets, personal tricks.

Edited by mercy
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Fixing seams:    3D-Coat  vs.  MARI

Mari:

Pros:
+ For base color texture seam fixing I find MARI the best.
+ It gives the best texture fidelity, doesn't blur and smudge pixels like 3D-Coat
+ I can paint in either UV window or in the regular 3D window.
+ I can switch off 3D-shading to work on the raw texture surface.
+ Mari's brush system is awesome and powerful.
+ The Paint Buffer technology turned out to be really useful.
Cons:
- somewhat slow
- No symmetry painting

3DC:

 

Pros:
+ Has powerful symmetry painting so its ideal for shininess maps and quick color paint
+ Faster than MARI

Cons:

- Weak brush system
- cloned pixels are blurred and smudged
- Can't paint in UV window

Edited by mercy
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Fixing seams:    3D-Coat  vs.  MARI

Mari:

+ I can paint in either UV window or in the regular 3D window.

+ I can switch off 3D-shading to work on the raw texture surface.

 

 

You can do those things in 3D Coat also. Its possible to paint in the UV window, to turn off 3D shading switch to 'Flat Shade' mode in the 'View' menu.

 

There are some areas in 3D Coat painting that could use some improvements. Cloning in paint room e.g. has never worked for me, it produces mumbo-jumbo that doesn't have much to do with the source area. It only clones incoherent parts of the source area:

 

cloning.png

 

Apart from that, I own a Mari license, but haven't started it up in quite some time. 3D Coats painting functionality is sufficient for me in almost all cases.

Edited by wilson66
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"Cons:

- Weak brush system"

 

"There are some areas in 3D Coat painting that could use some improvements. "

 

yeh!  i really hope that aside from PBR we get alot more general painting improvements and features in 3d coat. Substance painter is fast becoming a hot contender that im tempted to jump ship for, simply due to its speed of updates, dedication to its paint tools and feature set. 

 

<3 3dcoat

Edited by Boonta
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Hi all. Not sure if this is good place to poste this : i am working in last beta version and i found some painting problems with symetry , this have something with pen presure if it is big all is ok but when it is less then there are problems. I will show You the screen and You will see that both sides are not matching. If somebody can help will be great. Here is the link https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/51563336/IMG_10022015_113400.png Like You can see some information from one site is not going to another one. It is big problem when You are working with symetry. I saw same problems in 3d coat 3.7 but not all the time that why i am not sure what is wrong.

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Something I always wanted to ask: does the transform tool (sculpt room) work with symmetry? Meaning: when I have a symmetrical object with disconnected elements (e.g. two separate, symmetrical shoes of a character mirrored in X), is it possible to use the transform tool on one of the elements and have the other, mirrored element transform in a mirrored fashion?
 

Right now, even when symmetry is activated, both elements would move in a non-mirrored fashion, e.g. both in +X.

 

I would want one element to move in +X, the other one in -X (as is the case when using other tools like the Adjust -> Move tool).

 

If you know what I mean... 

Edited by wilson66
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Something I always wanted to ask: does the transform tool (sculpt room) work with symmetry? Meaning: when I have a symmetrical object with disconnected elements (e.g. two separate, symmetrical shoes of a character mirrored in X), is it possible to use the transform tool on one of the elements and have the other, mirrored element transform in a mirrored fashion?

 

Right now, even when symmetry is activated, both elements would move in a non-mirrored fashion, e.g. both in +X.

 

I would want one element to move in +X, the other one in -X (as is the case when using other tools like the Adjust -> Move tool).

 

If you know what I mean... 

for that use Pose tool in Object mode and activate Transform Gizmo inside pose tool....

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Extended periods between updates in 3D Coat does not = little being done. It usually means Andrew is working on something pretty substantial.

That generally seems to be the case.

There's still a lot that can be done with materials and the viewport (realtime SSS, post effects, etc.), so maybe we'll be seeing some further enhancements there?

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