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V4.5 BETA (experimental)


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Just Tested the new pbr functions. I loved it, it simplifies a lot working a shading - in less than 10 minutes i had my materials setted up in cycles with jst minor tweaks : O! -

 

feedback:

 

- When Painting "pbr" With brush and switch to fill. The smart material preview stays minimized. However, if you switch from fill to brush it resets and open again. It should only open when you activete the whole "pbr painting" thing. Having to minimize it all the time can be annoying sometimes. 

 

- Being able to rotate environment trough horizontal axe. Currently we can only do it on the vertical one. Most of the time it's ok, but in some models, like a hammer or an airplane that rotates a lot it's important to check how the material will behave in diferent situations.

 

- For materials that are not for an engine, sometimes it's better to tile textures and mix shader layers with a mask texture. Is it posible to bake each layer of a smart material into square textures to tile and be used on an coated material? the workflow seems perfect for videogames, but it doesn't seem to totally integrate for rendering.

 

- This one is just personal preference, can be ignored but people from modo and blender will appreciate.Trackball/ orbit rotation. Seems a little thing, but some times i miss that so much!

 

Thanx and continue with the good job! 

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Updated to 4.5.16 [stable]

- restored Projection scale

- Fixed Fill whole layer/Refill layer in UV mapping mode

- SHIFT LMB - rotate panorama, SHIFT RM - blur panorama, it is good to estimate glare of the model. Need to re-select navigation scheme to get this.

- Correct offset on VoxLayer tool in "Average normal" mode

- Fixed length corrected in measure tool in scenes with scale

Main development branch is different, I am making only small tweaks in stable branch to avoid general stability breaking.

Mac/Linux will come in 1-3 days.

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AO baking weirdness:

 

ao_weird.png

 

Left: retopologized object, AO baked with Textures -> Calculate Occlusion. Very strange result.

 

Right: the same object, exported with File -> Export Objects & Textures, then re-imported into the paint room, AO baked with Textures -> Calculate Occlusion (same settings). Correct result.

 

I get this unusable AO result on the left side of the screenshot occasionally. What could be going on?

Edited by wilson66
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Thank you Andrew for all your work. 

 

I am trying to find some information about the roadmap of 3D-C. Are there any plans to make layer masking easier? (it is kind of crazy for a user at the moment) or being able to mask some of the layer adjustments especially (Hue/Sautation/Value/Brightness/Contrast?).

 

I know texture painting is not the main focus and it is all about the package as a whole but i really like the texture portion of the package. 

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AO baking weirdness:

 

ao_weird.png

 

Left: retopologized object, AO baked with Textures -> Calculate Occlusion. Very strange result.

 

Right: the same object, exported with File -> Export Objects & Textures, then re-imported into the paint room, AO baked with Textures -> Calculate Occlusion (same settings). Correct result.

 

I get this unusable AO result on the left side of the screenshot occasionally. What could be going on?

Maybe voxel model was not hidden in the voxel tree.
Voxel models casts a shadow on the low-poly model.
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Maybe voxel model was not hidden in the voxel tree.
Voxel models casts a shadow on the low-poly model.

 

 

Thanks, I wasn't aware that this is necessary. It works when I hide the voxel model. 

 

Strange though that I have never done this before, and some bakes work without those artifacts, others don't. Also, those artifacts appeared when baking AO in combination with normal bake in retopo room (Bake -> Bake with Normal Map).

 

Anyway, thanks again for the hint.

Edited by wilson66
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Thanks, I wasn't aware that this is necessary. It works when I hide the voxel model. 

 

Strange though that I have never done this before, and some bakes work without those artifacts, others don't. Also, those artifacts appeared when baking AO in combination with normal bake in retopo room (Bake -> Bake with Normal Map).

 

Anyway, thanks again for the hint.

That would seem to indicate the retopo mesh is beneath the surface of the Voxel object. If snapped properly and you adjust the inner and outer baking cages correctly, during the bake setup process, all should go as expected.

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Any chance of getting an option to use the 4.1 paint brush in 4.5 (specifically, paint buildup)? Theres been a few topics about it lately cropping up:

http://3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=18182

http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2345263

 

Also, when is the Smooth/Blur tool going to be fixed so it works with modern texture resolutions?

http://3d-coat.com/mantis/view.php?id=1502

Edited by PolyHertz
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I'm suffering without drag and drop operations for image files. I want to drag and drop a texture file to Smart Materials window and it would create a default material with this texture, so I can paint on my model with this texture. Manually creating material for any single texture is very annoying task.

Mantis report.

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4.5.16

I have a problem with curves with symmetry enabled. When working with them for longer periods of time - doing extrusions, moving their points around, saving curves to .curve files, switching between 3D-Coat and other applications, etc. - I always end up with the following situation:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ro4g632qtj4qzy2/merging_curves.mp4?dl=1

 

The mirrored part of the curve gets connected with the other one every time I attempt to move or extrude a control point.

(Ok, ignore the curves part. Right after posting the video I noticed that it's caused by symmetry snapping. If you're at the wrong camera angle, the point will get snapped to symmetry plane.

Nevertheless, the second part of the problem shown on the video remains):

 

Also, at the end of the video you can witness GUI problems with curve tool's options window. It gets resized whenever I try to move it. It's a common problem of many GUI windows in 3D-Coat. And a very annoying one.

Edited by ajz3d
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Another GUI bug(?). Certain GUI components that allow for zooming, rotation, etc. are acting differently when manipulated with mouse and a tablet.
When I use a mouse, the cursor tries to stick to the GUI component I'm interacting with: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zp6wx5tpqs1vty6/mouse_gui_elements.mp4?dl=1. This feels like the correct behaviour.

But, if I use a pen, then not only the cursor doesn't stick to the component (which makes it difficult to interact with the component if it's located near the edge of the screen/window), but also it makes it go crazy when the cursor leaves 3D-Coat window, or hovers over the title bar while I'm tweaking the value: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ihg1rmoth6r5vib/intuos_gui_elements.mp4?dl=1. For this to happen, the button must be released when the cursor is outside of 3D-Coat's window.

P.S. There's also a problem when tweaking sliders with the mouse if the cursor leaves 3D-Coat window while the LMB is depressed. If I release the mouse button while the cursor is outside of 3D-Coat's window, and hover the cursor back over it, the slider still behaves as if the button was depressed, until I click the LMB again.

 

P.P.S. Has smoothing algorithms been modified in version 4.5.16? Anti-Bump, Powerful Smoothing and Smoothing feel extremely slow.

Edited by ajz3d
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4.5.16

I have a problem with curves with symmetry enabled. When working with them for longer periods of time - doing extrusions, moving their points around, saving curves to .curve files, switching between 3D-Coat and other applications, etc. - I always end up with the following situation:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ro4g632qtj4qzy2/merging_curves.mp4?dl=1

 

The mirrored part of the curve gets connected with the other one every time I attempt to move or extrude a control point.

(Ok, ignore the curves part. Right after posting the video I noticed that it's caused by symmetry snapping. If you're at the wrong camera angle, the point will get snapped to symmetry plane.

Nevertheless, the second part of the problem shown on the video remains):

 

Also, at the end of the video you can witness GUI problems with curve tool's options window. It gets resized whenever I try to move it. It's a common problem of many GUI windows in 3D-Coat. And a very annoying one.

 

I was wondering if anyone else used curves with symmetry...

 

Reported in this thread over a month ago and created a mantis report which still has not been assigned.

http://3d-coat.com/mantis/view.php?id=1992

 

100% reproducible, should be simple to fix.

Definitely a problem with symmetry snap, turning it off fixes the issue.

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Is someone observing extreme problems mith curved strokes?

It is hard to reproduce on default objects. Is someone so kind and test curved strokes with the angulator please. I have real problems to mark elements.

 

Regular strokes works great, but the curved ones.

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From time to time, after brushing with various tools (and smoothing), I find myself facing this kind of dirty geometry:

 

post-12523-0-45877200-1441205535_thumb.j

 

Their difficult to dispose of, but usually Powerful SmoothingRemeshing or Reconstruction helps. If it doesn't then the Cut-Off might work (though it sometimes requires multiple usage of this tool to remove this geo).

Sometimes this kind of geometry floats in space, separated from the main surface.

 

Have anyone else noticed similar problems?

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Pose Selection does not ignore geometry hidden with Surface Hide tool. Is it how it is supposed to work?

 

P.P.S. Has smoothing algorithms been modified in version 4.5.16? Anti-Bump, Powerful Smoothing and Smoothing feel extremely slow.

I converted the layer to voxels, filled the voids (Close Invisible Hulls was introducing some artifacts to this mesh, so I decided not to run it) and converted the volume back to surface. I then decimated it back to 400k (the initial polycount from before the conversion) and all smoothing algorithms began working correctly again. So I think the geometry got corrupted somehow. I'll send this VoxTree layer to support later.

Edited by ajz3d
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I'm suffering without drag and drop operations for image files. I want to drag and drop a texture file to Smart Materials window and it would create a default material with this texture, so I can paint on my model with this texture. Manually creating material for any single texture is very annoying task.

Mantis report.

 

In general the 3DC UI is pretty bad about drag/drop functionality. There are a ton of things it doesn't work for at all that you would expect it to (UI groups, materials, brushes, etc.), and where it does work it does so in a less then ideal way.

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Pose Selection does not ignore geometry hidden with Surface Hide tool. Is it how it is supposed to work?

 

I converted the layer to voxels, filled the voids (Close Invisible Hulls was introducing some artifacts to this mesh, so I decided not to run it) and converted the volume back to surface. I then decimated it back to 400k (the initial polycount from before the conversion) and all smoothing algorithms began working correctly again. So I think the geometry got corrupted somehow. I'll send this VoxTree layer to support later.

You hit the two bugs I've had for years in 3dc.

Some tools corrupt the geo, it creates the nasty geo you posted, and then since there are holes or non manifold geometry it slows everything down to a point it's unusable.

The only solution is convert back to voxel, lose almost all the work... and the worst part: usually it all comes back...

 

I've had a 3d break for personal work for a while, but the last time I tried to do something nice with it (a few weeks ago), it happened again and went "well so long I'm going to the other one"...

Sad but true. Not hating on anyone here, but those bugs have been around for so long I see no point in trying anymore.

I know it's not easy to pinpoint since I don't even know how to get there myself, but this is so frustrating it makes sculpting in 3dc both the best feeling and the worst experience possible when this happen.

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You hit the two bugs I've had for years in 3dc.

Some tools corrupt the geo, it creates the nasty geo you posted, and then since there are holes or non manifold geometry it slows everything down to a point it's unusable.

The only solution is convert back to voxel, lose almost all the work... and the worst part: usually it all comes back...

 

I've had a 3d break for personal work for a while, but the last time I tried to do something nice with it (a few weeks ago), it happened again and went "well so long I'm going to the other one"...

Sad but true. Not hating on anyone here, but those bugs have been around for so long I see no point in trying anymore.

I know it's not easy to pinpoint since I don't even know how to get there myself, but this is so frustrating it makes sculpting in 3dc both the best feeling and the worst experience possible when this happen.

Yes, it looks like it. Fortunately for me the corruption didn't re-appear yet and I hope it won't.

 

But today I was sculpting some voxel claws and what happened is this:

post-12523-0-42769100-1441545519_thumb.j

It is non-undoable. The surface is treated as if it wasn't there (the brush doesn't react to it) and any attempts to sculpt over it (it's possible only in areas where some other geometry layer is underneath) makes the voxels over the cursor to disappear.

 

If I save and reload the scene, the geometry is back in an intact state. :huh: It is possible that this is a random visual bug. I've seen it happening in the past more than once.

Edited by ajz3d
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Yes, it looks like it. Fortunately for me the corruption didn't re-appear yet and I hope it won't.

 

But today I was sculpting some voxel claws and what happened is this:

attachicon.gifcorrupted_voxels.jpg

It is non-undoable. The surface is treated as if it wasn't there (the brush doesn't react to it) and any attempts to sculpt over it (it's possible only in areas where some other geometry layer is underneath) makes the voxels over the cursor to disappear.

 

If I save and reload the scene, the geometry is back in an intact state. :huh: It is possible that this is a random visual bug. I've seen it happening in the past more than once.

Looks like you're hitting on what I've fighted against for years.

You get that, you get the "everything looks fine I'm just gonna brush over this part wow... *boom vertice explosion* wth happened ??!!" one, anyway, it's all fun, once it starts it's a never ending death. 

The only thing I was doing to TRY to avoid that was save incrementaly very often, because you simply trash the scene file when it happens, no point on finding WHEN it happened, you can't know for sure. So you just trash the thing and restart from an earlier segment.

This result in multi Gb projects... and so much lost work you just want to do damage to something.... 

GL.

At this point, I prefer to use the much less practical alternative, it's much less fun, it's heavy on ressources, but at least you can work without expecting everything to fall appart because some bug is in a tool you just used.

I hate to say things like that because obviously A TON of work went into this room, and it shows, but as long as those bugs exist... I prefer to use ZCrappySculpt at least I'm not constantly worried I may have done something that destroyed the entire project without even noticing.

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Looks like you're hitting on what I've fighted against for years.

You get that, you get the "everything looks fine I'm just gonna brush over this part wow... *boom vertice explosion* wth happened ??!!" one, anyway, it's all fun, once it starts it's a never ending death. 

The only thing I was doing to TRY to avoid that was save incrementaly very often, because you simply trash the scene file when it happens, no point on finding WHEN it happened, you can't know for sure. So you just trash the thing and restart from an earlier segment.

This result in multi Gb projects... and so much lost work you just want to do damage to something.... 

GL.

At this point, I prefer to use the much less practical alternative, it's much less fun, it's heavy on ressources, but at least you can work without expecting everything to fall appart because some bug is in a tool you just used.

I hate to say things like that because obviously A TON of work went into this room, and it shows, but as long as those bugs exist... I prefer to use ZCrappySculpt at least I'm not constantly worried I may have done something that destroyed the entire project without even noticing.

I know what you mean. I always end up with hundreds of incremental saves and projects weighting over 100GB too, simply because you never know what might happen... :) I think I learned how to avoid or overcome such accidents (to a certain degree) or which tools or sequences of actions might present a bigger risk of malfunctioning, so it's not that bad. But such problems, whenever they happen, are always frustrating because they break one's creative thinking and force him to interrupt his work and seek solutions to a technical issue. It also eats time.

 

--

Hopefuly after refactoring, it will be easier for Andrew to spot and squash those bugs.

Edited by ajz3d
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