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Andrew Shpagin

V4.5 BETA (experimental)

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I have to say this build is excellent so far.  The performance seems to be a lot better too.  Please keep up the refactoring, it's definitely paying dividends.  Also, I thought I'd mention, I'm teaching 3D Coat to my students at a couple of the colleges I teach at and they're really liking it.  I'm going to try to integrate it even more.  I started using zbrush in order to teach it to them and while it's a very powerful program, I find the sculpting feel much better in 3D Coat (aside from their smoothing which is pretty responsive and the autoretopo which performs quite well).  I did notice that the models the I took from 3d coat looked better in zbrush, but I think that is no longer the case with this update.  I'm really blown away by the work you guys have done!  I can't wait for Raul's updates too.  Exciting times!

 

Untitled-2.jpg

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Primary Light Intensity

Any chance to adjust Hotspot & Falloff

This HighPoint burn my eyes :(

ty

 

post-10142-0-77753800-1456916318_thumb.j

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This is really an efficient approach,smart materials are great but those shaders are really fast....I mean you cannot get any faster than this.

 

A lot of texturing artists are gonna love this :)

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The new shader is system is good but appears to be optimized for the sculpt room PBR shaders but not the paint room smart materials. I am not complaining about the new update as this still is in the beta stage but there does seem some problems with the rendering. The metal in the smart material no longer matches what I see in the paint room when rendering a smart material. This is unworkable...

 

Attached pictures... 4.5.28 on the left side of the image---- Right side is 4.5.29... The metal is darker and also loses some of it's reflective qualities. The whole material just seems off.. 

 

Of course I do not know where the problem lies, my smart material is setup correctly. It could just be in the renderer itself... or the new shaders under the view window in the Paint room. Again no matter what shader I choose under the view menu, the darker areas on the texture are still there.

 

I tested several smart materials, this includes the default ones and they are all effected.  I had shown another example in my other post... 

 

Also here is another shot of the grid pattern in the new PBR shaders... Shaders with more roughness shows them less but still there...

post-518-0-65762400-1456933649_thumb.png

post-518-0-30701800-1456934334_thumb.png

Edited by digman

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It looks like that the higher the poly count is, the more prominent the grid pattern.

 

post-12523-0-70585500-1456935557_thumb.j

 

post-12523-0-81021800-1456935562_thumb.j

 

post-12523-0-33968500-1456935567_thumb.j

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It looks like that the higher the poly count is, the more prominent the grid pattern.

 

Thanks for confirming this issue as Allabulle had done too.

One more metal smart material rendered, compare the two...  4.5.28 Left side---4.5.29 Right side. This material is a pure metal with roughness.

 

To mention again, I am using the Roughness---Metalness workflow.

post-518-0-70382700-1456936439_thumb.png

Edited by digman

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I can't apply shaders to objects that I import via Import tool.

---

3D-Coat creates duplicates of objects that are imported to sculpt room with Import tool.

 

---

Hm, both issues above seem to be totally random. I need to investigate further.

Edited by ajz3d

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I have some problems with how new shaders are rendered on very thin objects (in the render room). The rendered objects mostly come out very dark unless they're pretty thick, like the default head for example.

Take a look:

 

post-12523-0-86452300-1456944717_thumb.j

 

I need to tweak light intensity to maximum in order to see anything on the rendered image. Like with this steel shader below - I tweaked intensity to 294. Compare it with the previous image, where intensity was equal to 100. Of course maximizing intensity makes other shaders render incorrectly as they come out overexposed.

 

post-12523-0-73251400-1456945102_thumb.j

Edited by ajz3d

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This is a rather interesting fact.

Converting the imported surface to voxels enables the render room to render the object correctly with all shaders. Converting it back to surface maintains this state. So the problem occurs for objects that pass through Import tool (in surface mode). This includes importing from retopo room and from models palette.

 

Example: The upper part was converted to voxels and back to surface. Both parts use the same shader (steel).

 

post-12523-0-21910200-1456952385_thumb.j

 

But I think that this issue is also scene dependant or random. Sometimes I can import models without it happening, sometimes not. It's really weird.

 

 

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The grid pattern is gone if you turn off both flat shading and cavity (Carlosan had mentioned about cavity) but you lose all the nice shader effects which defeats the purpose of the new PBR shaders in the sculpt room.

 

@ajz3d... Yeah, I think there is a general problem with the new PBR shader system, from rendering smart materials with metal being very dark and Sculpt room shaders being rendered very dark in the render room also.

I put up enough information for the development team so I will now wait on any feedback they give. I am going back to beta 4.5.28 as I can work with PBR materials inside of 3DC and to other render engines correctly atm... My own created (paint room) smart materials, user created free ones and my purchased ones all work correctly in 4.5.28.

4.5.29 is a beta so I will wait for a update to it...

Edited by digman
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@ajz3d... Yeah, I think there is a general problem with the new PBR shader system, from rendering smart materials with metal being very dark and Sculpt room shaders being rendered very dark in the render room also.

I put up enough information for the development team so I will now wait on any feedback they give. I am going back to beta 4.5.28 as I can work with PBR materials inside of 3DC and to other render engines correctly atm... 

4.5.29 is a beta so I will wait for a update to it...

Yeah, nevertheless I'm in love with the new sculpt room's PBR shaders, and especially the fact that you can apply a normal map texture to them(!). It's a very good start I think. :) I think I'll stick to .29 for now unless I encounter some super serious bugs.

 

@Andrew I can send you the model from the screenshots for testing, if it would help you to reproduce the issue with super-dark renders in the render room.

 

PS. Oh, I almost forgot. Andrew, now that you're working on shaders, could you design a new optional wireframe mode for the sculpt room, that would cull all wireframes that are not immediately in front of the camera? So all wires that are either on backfaces or hidden by surfaces that are closer to the camera would be hidden? Generally speaking - a wireframe on shaded mode?

Edited by ajz3d
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Yes sticking to a beta version is an artist call...  :)

I would stick to beta 4.5.29 if the paint room smart materials with metal rendered correctly...

Edited by digman
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Yes sticking to a beta version is an artist call...  :)

I like the thrill of risk, and the adrenaline pumping straight into my heart! ;)

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I like the thrill of risk, and the adrenaline pumping straight into my heart! ;)

LOL, we all love the rush of a new beta... yeah baby! 

 

Ok, Here is another problem and these are always posted in the light of just bringing them to the attention of the development team.

beta 4.5.29 Open GL 64 bit non cuda

Simple smart material I created. metal with a dielectric material on top in places. The model with the normal map was baked from the retopo room but the smart material was created in the Paint room.

 

Noticed in 4.5.29 when using the GL verison of the beta, you get squares in the Render room... This is using a smart material not a sculpt room PBR shader. The squares are not present in the  4.5.28 GL version.

 

Up to 4.5.28, I have not experienced any problems with smart materials and no problems in the render room. These started with 4.5.29

The only thing I have not done, is to do a clean install... which I might later just do to be sure there is not some update conflict. The development team did not adivsed to do so. You might have noticed, I use development team now as Andrew has hired a few developers to help him. I believe I am correct there.

post-518-0-84720700-1456961392_thumb.jpg

Edited by digman
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I have not test the new Beta.

But in all your images, it looks like the metal color is gone.

Maybe Andrew use the AlbedoColormap from Glossy/Spec to render but still uses the Metal/Rough values, and that wont works.

Because MetalColor is stored in Specularmap.

 

Just my 2 Cents :D

Edited by Malo
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I have not test the new Beta.

But in all your images, it looks like the metal color is gone.

Maybe Andrew use the AlbedoColormap from Glossy/Spec to render but still uses the Metal/Rough values, and that wont works.

Because MetalColor is stored in Specularmap.

 

Just my 2 Cents :D

I knew something was wrong with the rendering of smart materials but at the time but did not speculate, though my thoughts were in your direction.

From the issue03 / Quixel article.

"Instead of using both a diffuse albedo map and a specular albedo map, Metalness introduces a combined "Albedo" map. This holds diffuse albedo for nonmetals and specular albedo for metals. Since metals have no diffuse albedo color anyways (= black diffuse), there is practically no loss of information this way. The metalness map thus tells the shader the following:

Color = white: Metal. Make a constant black color for the diffuse, and load the specular color from the albedo map.

Color = black: Nonmetal. Load the diffuse color from the albedo map, and make a constant 4% specular reflection."

Hopefully will hear back from the development team here at the beta forum soon to know the cause for sure or a fix...

Edited by digman

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What happend to the shading ?

I did a comparison  between marmoset, 3dc 4.28 and 3dc 4.29 with a model imported in the paint room

Marmoset and 3dc 4.28 looks close to each other

The shading in 3dc 4.29 is flatter on all my models, and to get an impression of volume, i have to increase a lot the contrast of the HDR

Until this issue will be fixed, i will stick to 4.28 
 

post-6638-0-79834600-1456993099_thumb.jp

Edited by Frimasson

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Great work on 5.30 .

 

Thank you very much Andrew.

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Great work on 5.30 .

Thank you very much Andrew.

There's version 4.5.30 already available?
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You are very secretive, Michael. :)

Edited by ajz3d
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I read secretary and pissed my pants loool

 

//please be careful with sensitive users, avoid some terms, ty

Edited by carlosan
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4.5.30 [beta]

- Fixed problems of metall rendering in render room.

- Grid pattern with new shaders is much less visible.

- LMB/RMB/MMB outside of Sculpt RMB menu will close the menu instead of sculpting action.

- RMB over object during navigation will not trigger RMB menu.

Pay attention, there s no blinn-phong now! So if you compare marmoset & coat, please compare GGX in Marmoset and GGX for Marmoset in 3D-Coat. Anyway, I will check and compare deeper.

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4.5.30: Still a lot of poly artefacts in the new cavity using shaders. This should be fixed or improved please. Hard to sculpt with these shaders.

 

  • When editing a shader and click on "Cancel" shader will not be reset to the last values.
  • Shader editing window change vertical size when options will be canceled or edited. This is ugly and should be fixed for the release.

By the way: I love the new shader model, but the poly artefacts are terrible. Any chance to fix this?

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