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Andrew Shpagin

V4.5 BETA (experimental)

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4.5.30: Still a lot of poly artefacts in the new cavity using shaders. This should be fixed or improved please. Hard to sculpt with these shaders.

  • When editing a shader and click on "Cancel" shader will not be reset to the last values.
  • Shader editing window change vertical size when options will be canceled or edited. This is ugly and should be fixed for the release.
By the way: I love the new shader model, but the poly artefacts are terrible. Any chance to fix this?
Please send me scene with well visible grid. In my check all is smooth and clean.

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Please send me scene with well visible grid. In my check all is smooth and clean.

There is nothing special to do. I just open a default mesh and set a new shader on it. See attached example. This is what I see when I set the new shader on the model.

 

Maybe I have done something wrong?

 

Example: The same happens with all shaders using cavity.

post-955-0-50680900-1457113598_thumb.jpg

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Beta version 4.5.30

The metal rendering is fixed... Thank you...

 

The grid pattern is still seem up close clearly on my system. (Voxel object) See attached image. I used one of the new PBR shaders, Gold2 at it's default settings and not a pictmap shader. It is evident on both as shown in Taro's image which is a converted picmap shader.

I sent my test file to support through the Help menu inside of 3DC.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I have not tested yet for the squares that are rendering in the render room when using the open GL version. I will test later and report back here. This is not part of the above problem...

post-518-0-43477400-1457113652_thumb.png

Edited by digman

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Cavity is defined per face. So faces become more visible with cavity. If I compare to previous version of cavity the new imo looks much better. Generally it is better to enable cavity in faceted shaders. Just set less degree for cavity/bulge to make grid less visible.

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Noticed a lot of performance boost on sculpting , also all of my custom materials render so much faster and look so much better.

 

For the facets it tends to go out if less amount of cavity / bulge is used as Andrew says.

 

 

But , on res up ,  it gets worst unfortunately.

Edited by Michaelgdrs

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Noticed a lot of performance boost on sculpting , also all of my custom materials render so much faster and look so much better.

 

For the facets it tends to go out if less amount of cavity / bulge is used as Andrew says.

 

 

But , on res up ,  it gets worst unfortunately.

That is true, it is less if you decrease the amount of cavity and bulge but you start to lose the nice shader effect of those two items... Res+ does indeed make it worse... Confirmed by Michalelgdrs, Ajz3d and myself.

 

I thank you for all your hard work down through the years. 3DC still is my favorite application.  The new Sculpt room PBR shaders still need some adjusting to make them really be outstanding shaders to the level of the other parts of 3DC.  As of now, new users will use the shaders and wonder why the grid is there... This distracts from how great 3DC is in many, many other areas... The shaders will be used right away when a new user tries the sculpt room sculpting. The grid pattern would be somewhat disappointing to them..

 

You could make them a beta feature only (show beta tools---Preferences) and have some regular shaders for general use as in 4.5.28... Then we could continue to test as you work on them... Only a suggestion... 

Edited by digman
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4.5.30.

- Toggling contrast button rotates the panorama.

- Render Room still renders new shaders incorrectly:

 

post-12523-0-70101800-1457128736_thumb.j

 

- If you have Greyscale Panorama enabled, you are in Render Room and you have enabled Realtime Render, then if you begin to switch between various panorama images, they will be unaffected with Greyscale Panorama unless you disable and re-enable this toggle.

Edited by ajz3d
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Confirmed on all.

 

Just noticed that , in render room there is a huge difference , in paint and sculpt they are 100% exactly the same.

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Cavity is defined per face. So faces become more visible with cavity. If I compare to previous version of cavity the new imo looks much better. Generally it is better to enable cavity in faceted shaders. Just set less degree for cavity/bulge to make grid less visible.

OK. This sounds logical. Thank you.

Is it possible to define cavity per vertex instead of filling faces? And then shade between the vertex cavity intensity? This could result in better quality. But I don't know how much performance it costs.

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OK. This sounds logical. Thank you.

Is it possible to define cavity per vertex instead of filling faces? And then shade between the vertex cavity intensity? This could result in better quality. But I don't know how much performance it costs.

Yeah, I think there needs to be some form of interpolation or softening parameter, which might help minimize the visibility of the faceting. With the skin shader, it's too abrupt. Reducing the cavity amount doesn't reduce this abruptness. It just makes the cavity effect more transparent.

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OK. This sounds logical. Thank you.

Is it possible to define cavity per vertex instead of filling faces? And then shade between the vertex cavity intensity? This could result in better quality. But I don't know how much performance it costs.

Cavity per face is almost free in terms of performance and is calculated on GPU. Per vertex cavity is more expensive and may be calculated on CPU and is costly in general.

As I remember faceted depth-based shaders was very popular before I introduced that new shaders. Cavity here was really ugly (not even face-based but rather edge - based) and view dependent but it was OK.

Possible solution is bigger minimal cavity threshold. Now it is 10%. Try to replace file InstallFolder/Shaders/Templates/mcubes_ps.hlsl with attached one (unzip it)

mcubes_ps.zip

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Proposal:

 

To be able to set Angle Shading based in normals angle ON / OFF.

 

Angles on the model that are smaller than the angle specified in the Angle button will be smoothed.

Higher values will produce smoother faces, while the lowest setting will look identical to a mesh that has been set completely solid.

 

Angle Range: from 0 to 180

 

ty

 

post-10142-0-13778700-1457190384_thumb.p

 

reference idea source

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Cavity per face is almost free in terms of performance and is calculated on GPU. Per vertex cavity is more expensive and may be calculated on CPU and is costly in general.

As I remember faceted depth-based shaders was very popular before I introduced that new shaders. Cavity here was really ugly (not even face-based but rather edge - based) and view dependent but it was OK.

Possible solution is bigger minimal cavity threshold. Now it is 10%. Try to replace file InstallFolder/Shaders/Templates/mcubes_ps.hlsl with attached one (unzip it)

attachicon.gifmcubes_ps.zip

I tested but no big difference, maybe just a tiny bit. The shaders still to not have a pleasing visual appearance, plus again res+ makes the grid pattern smaller but more noticeable still. Sorry Andrew, I know after your hard work, it has to be somewhat disappointing in our reactions to the shaders. Though I know as  developer you want our feedback and the input from the user base to make them better...

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I did some further tests between blender , 3d coat 4.5.28, 3d coat 4.5.30 and marmoset with different HDR

I only used diffuse shaders, without reflection or glossiness

Sometimes, 3dcoat 4.5 28 renderview looks closer to a raytrace render like blender
sometimes, it's 3d coat 4.5.30 that looks closer

 

post-6638-0-45426100-1457209906_thumb.jp

post-6638-0-83221800-1457214121_thumb.jp

Edited by Frimasson

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Roughness channel influences diffuse color in paint room (darker than it should be, viewport display issue only).

 

shading.png

 

also, the colors of the textures in the texture editor do not match the colors of the textures in the viewport (much lighter in texture editor).

Edited by wilson66

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Flat shade has no scene lighting, metalness or roughness effects... Flat shade is like in painting in Photoshop... The color variation in the finger on the far right is due to scene lighting and the roughness channel.

 

I will test the texture editor soon. 

EDIT: I very seldom use the texture editor so I will let others comment on that...

Edited by digman

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Andrew, when I work with very high-poly sculptures, I always seem to reach a point where interface (cursor, menus and windows) become highly unresponsive. Can something be done about this? Would it help if the interface ran in a separate thread than the rest of the program? I don't mind viewport slowing down - that's understandable, but slow and unresponsive UI really kills me.

Edited by ajz3d

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4.5.30.

 

There are some problems with Free Extrude tool in the Retopo Room when you extrude symmetrical edges. Take a look (X-symmetry is applied here):

 

post-12523-0-30784800-1457645612_thumb.g

 

On this animated GIF you can see that points closer to symmetry axis drag behind more than those the are farther away.

What's more, after I took those screenshots and then tried to undo those steps, extruded edges began shooting towards infinity more and more after each undo keypress. Strangely, Redo reverted the process.

----

Undo is broken when used with Free Extrude and edges that intersect with the symmetry axis.

----

Both bugs apply to Transform Tool too.

Edited by ajz3d

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Confirmed , plus on the auto retopo we have 2 issues , on the default shader paint density shows black (workaround as guys here shown me is to pick up a Picmat shader) , and then on guide lines , most of the times green guide lines turn out as a straight line , only when pressing control they can take a spline curved shape / direction.

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v.4.5.30 - Window 10:

 

Crash: Unable to render vertex painted objects in render room. (-> Surface models painted in paint room and tried to render them. Default shader used).

 

Can someone confirm this please?

 

EDIT: Seem not to happen in windows 8.1.

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Hi. I'm not sure if I already described the bug here, but in case I didn't, there are some strange issues going on with the Pose tool when you try to deform an object that intersects with one of the main world planes.

 

post-12523-0-02766700-1457896902_thumb.j

 

On the image below I moved the object a little bit off the XZ plane, towards the -Y, and then posed it:

 

post-12523-0-51027000-1457896930_thumb.j

Edited by ajz3d

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Taros, did quick test and it works here. I have same Win 10.

Have still problems with one project. I will ask Andrew. It is not reproducable and my model is under NDA.

 

Thank you haikalle.

 

EDIT: I meant "realtime render".

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