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Andrew Shpagin

V4.5 BETA (experimental)

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Yes, the sliders works realy nice now.

Much better as in the older versions, This is a big step in the right direction.

 

Many Thanks Andrew.

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Sliders still fairly slow for MV mode compared to PPP mode, just a heads up there...

Edited by digman

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I dont work with MV so i have not test it.

But it is better as in older version or not?

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How can I change panoramic image for viewport background?

 

Edit: Found it finally.

Edited by Vipera

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What is the "import coarse mesh" purpose under the Baking menu in the Retopo room, there is no tool tip to explain the function of the operation...

I tried to bake without a retopo mesh in case it would ask me to import a mesh to be the retopo baking mesh that had a uv set before the baking function started. I was ask no such question and of course no baking was performed.

 

4.5.Beta9 windows 32bit running under wine in Linux

post-518-0-68677300-1422315843_thumb.png

Edited by digman

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Yes, the sliders works realy nice now.

Much better as in the older versions, This is a big step in the right direction.

 

Many Thanks Andrew.

Guess the squeeky wheel gets the grease so...squeek, squeek. :D  ....

 

Sliders in the Paint Room....they be like

 

3318487786_64e03e0b8a_z.jpg?zz=1

There is a Southern (US) expression, "Slow as Molasses." That's what I meant with the picture, here. Paint dries faster than sliders update. Doesn't matter if it's PPP, MV or Vertex Paint. It only has two speeds. Slow and Stop.

 

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Have you tried this with Beta9?

Your Video shows Beta8.

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Have you tried this with Beta9?

Your Video shows Beta8.

There shouldn't be any changes as Andrew hasn't mentioned that being addressed at all. Been asking for this to get some attention for a long time, now. I have to believe that moving to DX11 and OpenGL 4 would help to some degree, as texture refreshing is something that is always being improved for enhanced gameplay. Perhaps Andrew could allow the user to set up a dedicated cache folder for all texture maps/data...and performance could be boosted by locating it on SSD drive. I think Mari does something like this.

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And - forgot one change n beta9 - updating preview should be much less laggy.

 

Hm, maybe i am wrong, but i think it was better in my quick test.

I have testet only the sphere with 1024 in PPP and it feels like 5 or 10 times faster.

Not realtime, but better.

Maybe i should test it more, if the preview is faster or not.

Edited by Malo

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Test it, AbnRanger, for me it's much faster. As Malo said not fully realtime, but certainly a big improvement!

Thanks, Andrew. (and AbnRanger, for the much needed squeeking).

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Nope. Im a "reporter" I can't delete anything. Anyway,I barely go there...Im too lazy.

You are set to developer Status as I see it right. Developers can delete issues.

:-)

 

If you don't want this I can set you back to reporter status.

 

Best wishes

Chris

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Hm, maybe i am wrong, but i think it was better in my quick test.

I have testet only the sphere with 1024 in PPP and it feels like 5 or 10 times faster.

Not realtime, but better.

Maybe i should test it more, if the preview is faster or not.

Just tested Beta9. I don't think there have been any changes. Seems about the same. On a 2k map, it's usable, but that's about it. There is still a few seconds of lag when using the layer Adjustments (TEXTURES menu > ADJUSTMENTS > Hue/Sat/Lightness). On 4k maps, forget it.

 

tumblr_n5wg8b6ljU1smmsbuo1_250.gif

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One solution I think could help is perhaps an option cache all layers and image maps to a specific folder, and to down-res what is shown in the viewport...a similar concept to caching a layer in the Sculpt Room. You cache all the 4k maps/texture files, and while you are working in the viewport, 3D Coat is actually using a down-sampled version, so performance remains relatively brisk. And at any point, the user can uncache a layer they are painting on, to work on or preview in the viewport or render room


I still think it's way past time to move to DX11 and OpenGL 4

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Maybe, this down-res technique can be applied at least when using sliders in the Paint room, if for no other purpose. To me, though....I think it would be a smart idea to be able to cache certain layers and show a lower res proxy. For example....if all you have is a solid color on one layer, why does 3D Coat need to use 4K for that, when even a 1k will suffice. Only layers that need to show 4k+ would be ones with some level of detail. I don't know if this would be feasible from a coding standpoint. But having the ability to down-sample certain layers should help reduce the load on system resources

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One solution I think could help is perhaps an option cache all layers and image maps to a specific folder, and to down-res what is shown in the viewport...a similar concept to caching a layer in the Sculpt Room. You cache all the 4k maps/texture files, and while you are working in the viewport, 3D Coat is actually using a down-sampled version, so performance remains relatively brisk. And at any point, the user can uncache a layer they are painting on, to work on or preview in the viewport or render room

I still think it's way past time to move to DX11 and OpenGL 4

And to 64-bit Assembler for speed sensitive code parts, like paint room.

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I think i found a bug. Sub / child volume's are missing there visibility icon

 

Steps to reproduce:

 

Open a new voxel sculpting object

select the split tool and split the volume

select the copy000 volume

select the split tool and split the copy000 volume

 

volume*_copy001 visibility icon is missing

 

changing the parent of copy001 to the root of the VoxTree makes the icon visible

 

This behavior can also be seen in the VoxTree after loading the Mannequin voxel sculpting preset

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When editing layers externally, both Gloss and Metaln layers are saved to a 'Layersspec.psd', meaning you can't open both in Photoshop at the same time.

 

AbnRanger: Ah yes, I was only testing on 1k. Sadly, I've found 4k to be impossible to work on within 3dCoat anyway. I'll doublecheck if I'm using the correct .exe (dx cuda), because I've heard from others that 4k works quite well.

 

edit: Yup, dx64 Cuda. Hmm.

Edited by Mighty Pea

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@ABNRanger

Damn, you are right,

On lower resolution it works much better but as more you go up as more unusable it gets.

I should test more stuff in the future until i say it is good or better.

 

About the caching idea

What about if we work in the oposite way?

I mean everything gets stored on a 8 or 16k map, but you choose the resolution in the viewport you want to work with.

I know you dont like what i am saying next, but Substance Painter works in that way.

You paint in SP with a 1k or 2k map and if you want to export your maps, you switch to 4k, and you get a perfect 4k HD map not an upscaled pixelated 1k or 2k map.

If that would be possible, it would be enough to paint maximal on 4k, but you where always able to export 8k or 16k.

What did you think?

Edited by Malo

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@ABNRanger

Damn, you are right,

On lower resolution it works much better but as more you go up as more unusable it gets.

I should test more stuff in the future until i say it is good or better.

 

About the caching idea

What about if we work in the oposite way?

I mean everything gets stored on a 8 or 16k map, but you choose the resolution in the viewport you want to work with.

I know you dont like what i am saying next, but Substance Painter works in that way.

You paint in SP with a 1k or 2k map and if you want to export your maps, you switch to 4k, and you get a perfect 4k HD map not an upscaled pixelated 1k or 2k map.

If that would be possible, it would be enough to paint maximal on 4k, but you where always able to export 8k or 16k.

What did you think?

That's pretty much what I was suggesting. Just like it is in the Sculpt Room. Your layer is at the resolution you want it at, but if you need to do some work on it at a lower res level...for performance sake...you can work on a lower res proxy instead. Whatever changes you make just get added to the original. So, in the Paint Room, you could decide to set the maximum size of your maps, but at any time, cache a layer and 3D Coat lets you work on a lower-res version of it. When you uncache it, 3D Coat applies the new changes to the original.

 

It needs something to boost the performance overall...not just sliders, of 4k, 8k and 16k. If Andrew achieved that, you would see more and more and more film studios adopting it overnight. Performance is going to be the first thing they check when looking to adopt a new texture-painting app like this.

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...and right now, for a studio working on cinematics or film shots...such as Blur, working on 8k maps (and not having UV tiling functionality natively) pretty much knocks 3D Coat out of the running.

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As a point of reference, Mudbox uses something similar, in it's GigaTexel engine. My understanding of it is that if you have a 4k texture map, when you paint, you are actually painting on the 4k map, but the further your camera gets away from the object, the more is down-samples the map shown in the viewport. I just think DX11 has certain technologies like this, which 3D Coat is not tapping into, because it's stuck on the DX9 dinosaur.

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You can see it (Giga-Texel Technology) discussed at about the 2:25 mark in this video:

 

 

I showed this to Andrew a few years ago, and it sort of brushed it off. Pretty disappointing.

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Looks like that works like mipmaps for games.

Sounds nice, too.

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