Carlosan 2,559 Report post Posted July 4, 2015 Could you please take a time to perform some test using the default bust ? im selecting the bust, merging sub-tree and performing autoretopo... but cant get a good edgeflow* detection. * Its a low poly retopo test ty ! Note using your settings i get this - 1000polys - 4ngons Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taros 370 Report post Posted July 4, 2015 Her are my results. Seems that using Autopo with surface layers is buggy at the moment. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carlosan 2,559 Report post Posted July 4, 2015 back to testing again TY TAROS !!! //edit some new test with a voxel layer model - no more spiral loops = soooo good - some edge loops here and there, need to perform more test - hand details lost > is auto-density influence multiplier working ? - with Hardsurface retopology = on cant see differences when change crease angle value 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taros 370 Report post Posted July 4, 2015 My observation is that surface mode has big potential with the new autopo routine. Look at the ears in my example. The bottom model has a better polyflow and distribution than the top one. The top model is based on voxels, the bottom one on surface mode. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carlosan 2,559 Report post Posted July 4, 2015 wow, you right !! Surface > Voxel for autoretopo tool same test with a Layer Surface model -using the same settings before- note: 7stars - edge broke = no good //edit was performing better test result, see some post below this one old test pics 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arumiat 66 Report post Posted July 4, 2015 I'm getting some seriously decent autopo results, not changing any settings, nor placing guides.. Great work 3DC! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carlosan 2,559 Report post Posted July 4, 2015 new test, new settings, amazing result ! Ty Andrew, this is a great step forward !!! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
L'Ancien Regime 646 Report post Posted July 4, 2015 (edited) I'd really like to hear from Andrew and Raul about just what it is they've done to improve things so much. It's really amazing. I've being doing all sorts of goofy tests late last night and this thing is amazing. Also is it my imagination or are voxel sculpts more refined looking in the display. Somehow 3d Coat voxel sculpts look an order of magnitude better. Edited July 4, 2015 by L'Ancien Regime Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew Shpagin 1,500 Report post Posted July 4, 2015 I recommend CaptureDetails = 50 and Auto density = 1 On my tests it gives best results. In some cases you need to raise CaptureDetails to bigget values, but raising leads to more stars. What was generally done - more smart curvature field calculation + better stability of solution + stars reconstruction (whenever possible). 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taros 370 Report post Posted July 4, 2015 Andrew I would like to save settings for different situations. This would be great. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taros 370 Report post Posted July 4, 2015 For your tests: To be really shure about good settings use always low poly resolutions. The better the results there, the better they are for other high res models. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carlosan 2,559 Report post Posted July 4, 2015 Andrew I would like to save settings for different situations. This would be great. +1 0001943: Autoretopo params - add the option to save / load settings Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Javis 524 Report post Posted July 4, 2015 I absolutely agree. Having presets for at least some basic types of situations, and the ability to share them, users will not have to do so much guess work. Andrew I would like to save settings for different situations. This would be great. +1 0001943: Autoretopo params - add the option to save / load settings Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taros 370 Report post Posted July 4, 2015 In the meantime I've made more tests and I think I have very good settings for the current version. Try this, it works well for low poly models too:Capture details: 50% (The higher your Poly count, the higher details can be. But try it careful and start always at 50%) Auto density influence modifier: 1 Voxelize Before Quadrangulation: on Voxelized object poly count: Start at 50% of your high resolution model in rounded thousands. My max value was 3.000 when the mesh began to get worse. My mesh has 5.8 million polys and a value of 2.000 was the best one. Decimate if above: on Decimate model value: 100 Smooth resulting mesh: off No density set needed. No guides needed.I got really impressive results with this settings. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carlosan 2,559 Report post Posted July 4, 2015 ty for your time ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taros 370 Report post Posted July 4, 2015 Looks good but try it with more complex models Carlos or less polys. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AbnRanger 1,561 Report post Posted July 5, 2015 It ain't perfect (will require some cleanup work), and it took quite a bit of trial and error, but I finally was able to get a decent result on a head mesh. I know 3D Coat doesn't like many guides, but fewer wasn't helping much. I also cranked up the "Capture Detail" amount to .7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AbnRanger 1,561 Report post Posted July 5, 2015 It also seems to deliver MUCH better results by NOT using the DECIMATE option. But man, is it slow when you don't. We're talking about going to the grocery store and run some errands while it calculates, slow. Wish CUDA (6.5) could be utilized for the calculations and used on the Pose tool, if possible Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taros 370 Report post Posted July 5, 2015 Looks really nice. We have compared the routines with zRemesher and it seems to be normal today to wait for good results. I am not waiting longer than 2 minutes with my settings and am pleased with the results for now. Even if it would need 10 minutes, it's faster than retopo a complex model by hand. What are your times Don? Can you post your settings please? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AbnRanger 1,561 Report post Posted July 5, 2015 We have compared the routines with zRemesher and it seems to be normal today to wait for good results. I am not waiting longer than 2 minutes with my settings and am pleased with the results for now. Even if it would need 10 minutes, it's faster than retopo a complex model by hand. What are your times Don? Can you post your settings please? You can see the settings, here. If I check DECIMATE it is fast (1-2minutes), but the result is very unsatisfactory. But after unchecking that, it took over an hour to calculate, but the result was well within the acceptable/decent range, as you can see. Still plenty of cleanup, but I was surprised. In fact, I was pretty much ready to give up on head meshes and never even bother to attempt them again. But, at least I know it's workable now...just takes some Jedi Mind tricks and a bit of work to get there. Overall, on complex models, like character/creature heads/faces....I'd much rather use the Strokes tool to sketch all the topology > ENTER and be done with it. Much faster than having to make guides anyway and have to jump through so many hoops to get a decent, but not great, result. On secondary objects, I think it is certainly worth using. Just not there yet with more complex objects. It still really struggles in the outer eye region and creates extra geometry that isn't even necessary. You can see what I mean from the chin area, on the example above Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taros 370 Report post Posted July 5, 2015 Thank you for the feedback. Now I know what you mean. I had the same experience with the calculation times. I thought 3Dcoat crashed and never waited all the time. Instead I searched for a better/faster setting. You seem to have more patience. I agree with you. The Auropo routine is currently nice for all static objects or secondary assets that are not in focus.My experience is that zRemesher is still a bit better when remeshing characters. The polyflow is better there but not perfect too. Serious artists still retopo their models by hand too. But we are at a very good point in 3dcoat. Let us wait. Maybe Andrew has some ideas to improve it more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carlosan 2,559 Report post Posted July 5, 2015 Hi Taros Can i ask a little question ? talking about zremesher routines- Adaptive size defines a vertex ratio based on the curvature of the mesh.- To maintain the original mesh shape, ZR may need to increase the topology density in certain areas or produce triangles rather than quad polygons. Zremesher really produce triangles in certain areas ? if yes: Could 3DC autotopo routines do the same -create triangles- to maintain the original mesh shape ? ty in advance Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taros 370 Report post Posted July 5, 2015 Hi Taros Can i ask a little question ? talking about zremesher routines - Adaptive size defines a vertex ratio based on the curvature of the mesh. - To maintain the original mesh shape, ZR may need to increase the topology density in certain areas or produce triangles rather than quad polygons. Zremesher really produce triangles in certain areas ? if yes: Could 3DC autotopo routines do the same -create triangles- to maintain the original mesh shape ? ty in advance I guess it is depending on the high poly template. We have not found any tris in our zR meshes until now. What I observe is a better overall polyflow. There are some situations, especially in hands where 3D Coat does a much better job. But in faces or elements like ears zRemesher is really good from scratch. I mean without any helper guides. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carlosan 2,559 Report post Posted July 5, 2015 hmmm... let me ask one more overall polyflow... how crease angle option affect it ? Its possible to analyze the curvature -vertex ratio- of the model, before to perform the routine to generate the edgeflow ? ty very much for your time, very appreciated Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taros 370 Report post Posted July 5, 2015 hmmm... let me ask one more overall polyflow... how crease angle option affect it ? Its possible to analyze the curvature -vertex ratio- of the model, before to perform the routine to generate the edgeflow ? ty very much for your time, very appreciated No there is no way to analyse it before for the artist. You can set density and guides but zBrush decide itself where more or less polys are generated. But it does it good. 3D Coat does a bit better job sometimes in this field. But as I said: The flow in 3D Coat is not always good for animation. Especially in low poly models. In my eyes both tools are good for secondary models like furniture and or staues. Everything you don't need to animate. We haven't made hardcore tests in zBrush because you don't need them in zRemesher in my opinion. I can ask my friend who is doing the tests for me for making some more. But the zRemesher models were always good. I am preparing a big 3D Coat only autopo test. My new results are very good and I don't need zRemesher anymore... Its in progress and I will publish it in my blog soon. There are some few rules in 3D Coat. If you know them, you will get very nice and satisfactory results in a good time. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
