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Andrew Shpagin

V4.5 BETA (experimental)

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Plus , 3d coat is well known for its autopo among other strong points (painting and voxel sculpting)  , so getting it better / faster is a must i would dare to say.

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well there is always gonna be some sort of default spacing because brush strokes use images alphas and those have to be somehow repeated along the stroke otherwise the stroke would never have anything to do with the alpha used....it would be just a generic stroke controlled by falloff...

The dots you see comes from the fact that the alphas used are too small.....there is too much black space versus grey/white space on the image.

 

If you use broader alphas you will  notice no dots even if spacing is off...

Here, no spacing using the first 2 default alphas:

attachicon.gifno spacing.jpg

Agreed. But, if turning brush spacing off results in longer spaces between stroke samples when compared to a case where this setting is enabled - with the same alpha, then something starts to feel wrong here. :)

Edited by ajz3d
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I think OpenCL can greatly accelerate auto-retopo.
I wanted to do it, too. The question - what feature now has top priority?!....

 

 

- please take a look

3d-coat-roadmap*

 

* can login with any gmail account

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- please take a look

3d-coat-roadmap*

 

* can login with any gmail account

 

Hey Vladimir. :) I recommend taking a look at our Trello as well. It's got a good list with features/enhancements that we've been voting on for quite some time. It's a good place to start from.

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- please take a look

3d-coat-roadmap*

* can login with any gmail account

Many of the requests there on Trello and Mantis do not need OpenCL speed improvement. If Vladimir (Carrots) is specializing in writing OpenCL code for 3D-Coat, then he should focus on the slow parts of 3D-Coat.

Currently these are slow in 3D-Coat:

1. Pose Tool with dense mesh

2. Autopo

3. Sculpting/painting with large brush radius

4. Some Paint Room tools/sliders are slow

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Many of the requests there on Trello and Mantis do not need OpenCL speed improvement. If Vladimir (Carrots) is specializing in writing OpenCL code for 3D-Coat, then he should focus on the slow parts of 3D-Coat.

Currently these are slow in 3D-Coat:

1. Pose Tool with dense mesh

2. Autopo

3. Sculpting/painting with large brush radius

4. Some Paint Room tools/sliders are slow

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a Winner! :D  +1

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+100000000000000

 

just switch 1 with 2 and you are touching perfection.... :D

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+100000000000000

 

just switch 1 with 2 and you are touching perfection.... :D

Speaking of perfection.....I stopped trying Auto-Retopo on an Aysmmetrical Bust, and switched to Symmetrical one. Still took a number of attempts and tweaks, but this is the first time I have EVER seen 3D Coat do a near perfect job on the head of a character. There is one spot near the temple, that needs to be cleaned up, but apart from that, it did a bang-up job. This is why I think it's imperative for 3D Coat to employ some GPU acceleration (OpenCL) to Auto-Retopo. It otherwise takes WAY too long to calculate. And fiddling with parameters > another attempt becomes too time prohibitive to even consider using Auto-Retopo. That means ZBrush users looking at 3D Coat will just go back to ZBrush, because it's ZRemesher works better, right out of the gate.

 

When you crank up the "Capture Details" and uncheck "Decimate if Above," the chances of a great result are much higher....but again, it takes nearly half an hour to well over an hour just to run Auto-Retopo. A good artist can probably do most of the face, manually within an hour, so the calculation times are just too prohibitive. I was just testing today. In production, there ain't no way I would use Auto Retopo on an a moderately complex object....mostly because of the number of attempts X the time it takes to calculate. It can burn hours of our day just trying to get it right...before giving up.

 

So, yeah...OpenCL for Auto-Retopo, all day long.

 

 

143916742799.jpg

143916745207.jpg

143916750076.jpg

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Very good results , honestly very good results.

 

By the way , i totally agree with what you just said , i am facing the same issues but unfortunately due to extreme deadlines i still use the autopo , lets say on 3rd to 5th try i get the results i need.

 

So 2 options here

 

1) Polish the new algorithm 

 

2) Use the existing new algorithm and speed it up with OpenCL so we don't loose so much time on complex models.

 

Perfection.....

 

Do both lol.

Edited by Michaelgdrs

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Thanks!

But really pity, the build again can't be called stable....

It's getting close, though. Lots of important problems fixed, recently. By the way, Andrew, would it be possible for 3D Coat to ignore the "Depth Limit" option in the E-Panel when certain tools are used....like VoxExtrude/Layer? Because that BUG I reported about the splines/shape draw modes (E-Panel) not working with those tools....was actually a result of that option being checked (many users many not even realize it is on, especially new users). It needs to be either grayed-out/disabled with those selection-based tools or have 3D Coat just ignore it. This will save people having to bring this problem up on the forum and keep users from e-mailing you, asking why those tools don't work right.

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...and I know you are trying to get into the Refactoring work, but if at all possible, PLEASE let Carrot implement OpenCL with Auto-Retopo. It is one of 3D Coat's most important tools, and the user often HAS to make multiple attempts to get a decent result. OpenCL doing most/all of the calculation could minimize the hassle of repeated attempts. In my tests...which I spent the better part of yesterday doing....if the user unchecks "Decimate if Above" you typically get MUCH better results. Results you just cannot get otherwise.

 

Problem is, the calculation time is abysmally excessive. PLEASE...OpenCL. OpenCL Please. :D

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We could even write a song about Carrots ,  Auto-Retopo and OpenCL if needed   :p:

Edited by Michaelgdrs

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Autopo and Open CL and VERY different things, I see no chance there.

Autopo = 500 times solve 100k x100k linear system (in doubles, not floats!). OpenCL is just useless there, at least for current method.

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Autopo and Open CL and VERY different things, I see no chance there.

Autopo = 500 times solve 100k x100k linear system (in doubles, not floats!). OpenCL is just useless there, at least for current method.

Then for more complex models, then it is practically unusable...in it's current state. I spent ALL DAY yesterday trying to get a decent result, and the only time I could come close was by unchecking "Decimate if Above." That meant wait times of 30minutes to well over an hour. And in a number of cases, the progress seemed stuck on 0% for well over 30min...and I had to kill the app > Restart the app.

 

If OpenCL cannot be used, then it should be made clear to users that Auto-Retopo is only for simple to intermediate level complexity.

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...it is just too time prohibitive...not to mention the frustration of having to make multiple attempts and never know if all your efforts will even payoff. For this reason, I personally don't use Auto-Retopo much at all. You can lose a LOT of time and find yourself at a dead end, in it's previous and current state. It works great in some cases (primitive shaped models), but can be a mess in others. OpenCL, could greatly reduce the amount of hassle a user has to deal with. 

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Don't know it this is the best place to ask, but it is normal a slow behavior on the computer regarding creating AO and Curvature maps and even enable or disable layer visibility for a 8k smart material on a simple low poly mesh? I have a I7 3550k, 16gb ddr3 and GTX 970 4GB, 3D Coat 4.5.10

 

EDIT: also, everytime I will use Fill Tool with Smart Material 3D Coats warns me that the process can take a long time. I can only press OK or CANCEL using keyboard. Mouse becomes unresponsive.

Edited by dimitribastos

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Any Siggraph news I should be sharing?

 

We wont be at SIGGRAPH. A new thread if you want to report on SIGGRAPH stuff (assuming you're there?), would be cool.

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I'm not there, I wish I could afford it. I just thought there might be a sale on 3DC or something, I think there was last year.

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I don't think so. Stas is on vacation again, and wont be around for some time.

Of course, Stas could have something planned that he hasn't shared with anyone. Happens all the time. ;)

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What file and where you dropped? I checked and on my tests all works as expected - there are much more items in D&D menu.

 

After 4.5.11 install... this function works again

But when i drop a *.gif the D&D menu option disappear -is not showed anymore-

to close and open 3DC doesnt help. is not working anymore again.

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I'm not there (...)

Darn, I was about to ask you if you could visit one booth for me and tell me what you have seen... :cray:

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Andrew.

Import an object which is positioned somewhere off the world origin or create a primitive that is similarily positioned.

Now, select Transform tool, click To Center Mass and choose View->Snap to 3D Grid. The manipulator will be moved to the nearest 3D grid point! :blink:

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Don't know it this is the best place to ask, but it is normal a slow behavior on the computer regarding creating AO and Curvature maps and even enable or disable layer visibility for a 8k smart material on a simple low poly mesh? I have a I7 3550k, 16gb ddr3 and GTX 970 4GB, 3D Coat 4.5.10

 

EDIT: also, everytime I will use Fill Tool with Smart Material 3D Coats warns me that the process can take a long time. I can only press OK or CANCEL using keyboard. Mouse becomes unresponsive.

AO and Curvature maps is basically a rendering process, so yes, it's not going to be instantaneous. It's not instant when you bake AO maps in Maya or 3ds Max, so one shouldn't expect it to be all that different in 3D Coat? As far as 8k maps, each layer has 3-4 9k maps stored on it (color, gloss/roughness, depth, and metalness) so it takes a little longer for it to dump and load into memory than a 2k or 4k map. Maybe while Andrew is refactoring the app, he can do something to further optimize these kinds of things, including scrubbing the opacity sliders of each channel.

 

The other thing to take into account is your hardware. Some tasks are especially stressful on our hardware. Working with 8k-16k maps, while simultaneously painting on 3-4 maps/channels at a time, is one of them. Nevertheless, if you could screen record what is happening on your system and then e-mail a link to that recording + mention what your system specs are, and send that to Andrew at "Support@3d-coat.com" ....that would be the best way to get an answer, regarding the problem.

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