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PBR in Blender Cycles

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This was an interesting thread to come across.

 

I was a bit taken aback the other day when I brought a model into Blender from 3DC and opened up the node editor to find this.

post-38412-0-45821600-1421180642_thumb.p

 

I was sad to switch to rendered shading and the 3D coat material to not display but is there a way to recreate 3DC materials within Blender then? Are they based on the same/ similar underlying 'nodes'?

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My understanding of shaders is limited. Is there a way to create material in Cycles that will work in 3DCoat?

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I use this for my projects

 

http://www.blendswap.com/blends/view/76325

 

There is another Shader Setup.

https://matthieubarbie.wordpress.com/2014/11/23/pbr_shader-1-5-for-blender-2-72b-documentation/

 

This one have more options and an extra Node for IBL lightning.

When I checked the second link I noticed there was an update to PBR_SHADER 1.75 for Blender 2.73.

https://matthieubarbie.wordpress.com/2015/01/12/pbr_shader-1-75-for-blender-2-73-documentation/

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My understanding of shaders is limited. Is there a way to create material in Cycles that will work in 3DCoat?

 

Thats why we post some links for you.

You only need the model and textures from 3d coat, there is no need to understand the nodes compledly in cycles.

Simple put your Albedo, Normal, Metallic and Roughness maps into the right slots and hit render, thats all.

 

But no, there is no way to create a Cycles material that works in 3d coat, or in the other way.

Both use its own shading and material system.

Edited by Malo
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These settings I find so far work best for me exporting out of 3DC and using the Dual PBR shader in Blender.

GGX shader under the view window in 3DC for rendering in the 3DC viewport. In Blender the Dual Shader uses the Ashikhmin-Shirley distribution setting and not the GGX in the Glossy BSDF Shader. I have not tried setting the dual shader to GGX under the Glossy BSDF.

Export Roughness and Metalness in the export settings panel.

 

Blender: Dual Shader, selection of course is Metalness and Roughness.

 

The above appears to get me best match of the Teapot of what I see in the 3DC viewport and when I render in Cycles.

 

This Gloss (roughness) and Metalness setting from the  3DC export panel, the Gloss (roughness) map did not work nearly as well as the Roughness map...

 

The above is all a learning in progress and open to change but so far that seems to work out the best.

 

PDF Link to the Ashikhmin-Shirley Microfacet-based BRDF Generator

http://www.cs.utah.edu/~shirley/papers/facets.pdf

 

I am not a math major by any means but general principles on what they created is an interesting read...

 

By the way thanks for the Links Malo... :drinks:

Edited by digman
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Guys, help please! What are the Normal Map correct presets in 3DC 4.5 to Cycles (I can't get correct normal map appearance)

 

Thanks a lot!

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Didn´t the Blender Preset while baking /w normalmap work?

What are the problems in Cycles?

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I have also problems with the normal map with the PBR Shader Vers. 1.75. It gives in some areas (were shadows should be) very dark and sharp shading results. With the dual shader

it does not happen, but i don't have then the shiny shading results, the surfaces look matte then.

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Guys, I think I've made a Complex (but with simple inputs) PBR shader for Cycles based on this guy's videos

I guess it is a kind of similar to Simple PBR v4, but a bit different

These are screenshots from 3DC viewport and render with cycles (with black background)

What do you think???

 

P.S. Blend file in attachment

post-896-0-09505300-1453823521_thumb.jpg

post-896-0-74343800-1453823521_thumb.jpg

Shader+HDRI.zip

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Key thing is playing with RGB curves for Roughness map (Color or Non-color data), for Metallness map I found Non-color data work more closely to what I see in 3DC.

 

Anyway, need your tests!

 

P.S. Shader is very cool for working even without textures!

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Kool, Thanks for sharing... I will run some test later and post results here...

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Guys, I think I've made a Complex (but with simple inputs) PBR shader for Cycles based on this guy's videos

I guess it is a kind of similar to Simple PBR v4, but a bit different

These are screenshots from 3DC viewport and render with cycles (with black background)

What do you think???

 

P.S. Blend file in attachment

Can an experienced Blender user record a little video demonstration of using this in conjunction with the Blender Applink...similar to how the 3ds Max applink video was done?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pwde7LiJA38

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Kool, Thanks for sharing... I will run some test later and post results here...

 

My pleasure!

Yes, heavy tests on this are very needed! After tweakings we will be able to record a cool tutorial ;)

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A Test with Daniel's PBR shader...

I found that from an artistic point of view, adding a specular color map helped bring out the details...

I did do some color mangement.

Further testing before commenting and adding suggestions... I will had one though, I would like to have more control over the oxidize copper. This is happens in the simple pbr shader too. It seems on oxidize materials the metal part tends toward the lighter side.

On the next post, I will had my setup details.

I had watched a few of those shader tutorials several days ago. Very interesting.

It is an excellent shader by the way, Daniel.

 

EDIT:

If I add a specluar color map to the simple PBR shader I use, then the orixdize copper is a darker richer tone shown in last picture.

post-518-0-73140600-1453918255_thumb.jpg

post-518-0-40908500-1453920140_thumb.jpg

Edited by digman
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Ok, here is a problem both with the the simple PBR  and Daniel's Shader that I am finding, I have not tested many objects yet, but will has time allows.

Using the metalness--roughness with the The GGX shader in 3DC.

Shader is setup correctly in Blender.

 

The brown to black problem does not appear till I add the normal map when I do the brown areas in 3DC appear but are black in Blender Cycles.

In the albedo map the brown color is not there.

Whether this is a smart material problem, export albedo 3DC problem or a PBR shader problem, I do not know.

 

EDIT... The above is different material setup in 3DC that the one I showed in my other post.

 

Upon looking at some smart materials not created by me, I am finding the metalness in some them not set at 100% in the smart material.  Metal in the metalness - roughness workflow is either all metal or a dialectic material. The roughness of metal or the Micro-faceted surface is controlled though the roughness setting. This determines the reflected quality of the metal. Either sharp or blurry to whatever degree depending upon the roughness of the metal.

Any oxidation or paint etc... on top of that would be a dialectic material... non metal.

The above is my understanding of the Metalness---roughness workflow.

 

The cube, top part, metal is all metal, roughness 0% in the smart material.

bottom part, metal is all metal but roughess set at 5% in the smart material.

Dialectic material would be built upon these bases.

Metal can be less than 100% for transitions but generally is either metal or non-metal but having a transition in a smart material  for the Metalness--Roughness workflow might mess up the shader in Blender because we are using the metalness---roughness workflow. I tend to stick with metal being metal otherwise it is a dialectic material. I build all my dialectic material of top of the metal base. 

post-518-0-12412200-1453944946_thumb.jpg

post-518-0-85891100-1453947041_thumb.jpg

Edited by digman
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One last test for the evening... Daniel's new PBR shader...

post-518-0-39930500-1453956112_thumb.jpg

Edited by digman

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Some tests from me.

 

Substance Painter

post-24378-0-76900300-1453999669_thumb.j

 

3d Coat

post-24378-0-96828200-1453999652_thumb.j

 

Blender Simple PBR

post-24378-0-73685900-1453999657_thumb.j

 

Blender Daniel

post-24378-0-26441500-1453999665_thumb.j

 

 

Original textures are created with Substance Painter but this only for the reason why i have an image from Painter here.

As i see, Painter and 3d Coat have some little differences.It looks a littlebit brighter, maybe the Expose Vaule are different calculated.

Anyway.

Next are PBRSimple and the new one from Daniel.

Booth looks different as in 3d coat and Painter. SimplePBR have nice colors, but Daniel ones have nice metallic.

But i think Daniel ones darken thes colors to much.

 

I think SimplePBR works better overall.

Edited by Malo
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In further testing I found, that I can get  a closer match between 3DC and Blender, when I use 3DC's renderer. How they calculate the ENV maps appears different as well.

3DC Env lighting appears brighter as well than Blender's Env background set at 1.00, I have been boosting it to 1.2

I am using the same Env map in both applications.

Under Color management, I use View--- default, not film.

Look ----sRGB. Set to none or I test several sRGB "Lut'.  I do not know which sRGB "Lut" lookup table 3DC uses or if it even uses a lookup table.

Use Curves---Set to none. In testing I will use curves at times to try to match to 3DC rendering view.

 

An area I am testing is: Any grayscale in the metal map will produce dark areas or black areas of texture using the simple pbr and Daniel's pbr shader. These darker areas correspond to the grayscale areas in the metal map.

A below is a quote from PBR in Practice / Marmoset.

" For metallic surfaces – pixels set to 1.0 (white) in the metalness map – the specular color and intensity is taken from the albedo map, and the diffuse value is set to 0 (black) in the shader. Gray values in the metalness map will be treated as partially metallic and will pull the reflectivity from the albedo and darken the diffuse proportionally to that value (partially metallic materials are uncommon)."

In 3DC you have to be careful in the construction of your smart material, otherwise you will have the above problems at least from my testing so far.

 

I working through all areas to be able to have a standardized workflow and make a video to that extent...

As, I work through each area it gets easier to get WYSWG between the applications.

 

I agree with Malo, Daniel's Shader darkens the Albedo map more than my simple pbr shader.

Another test. though I had to to a little adjusting to the albedo map using the RGB curve node and some color management. This was due to the albedo map being darker.

A few of the smart materials had the metal / grayscale problem, I will fix them later. 

Again an outstanding shader with a few tweaks, I believe it will become the one I use.

post-518-0-46323500-1454018010_thumb.png

Edited by digman

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Guys, thanks a lot for your heavy tests!!!

 

Unfortunately I don't have much time right now to get into it deeply, but I'm keeping my eye on this thread ;)

Hope will come back soon...

 

Anyway, you have a shader for tweakings and sharing :)

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Guys, thanks a lot for your heavy tests!!!

 

Unfortunately I don't have much time right now to get into it deeply, but I'm keeping my eye on this thread ;)

Hope will come back soon...

 

Anyway, you have a shader for tweakings and sharing :)

Thank You! for taking the time to make this very excellent Blender PBR shader, no easy task... I added two RGB curve nodes, one inside the metalic group and one inside the dielectric group for individual control of the albedo map. It is nice to have that separate control.  Soon after some more test, I do believe will become my goto PBR shader.

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