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Substances - any thoughts on integrating them?


strangelet3345
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Hai!

 

have you guys thought about a Substance integration? it would exponentially expand your available library of materials, and provide an interface for adjusting their params.  Substance painter and designer are gaining traction in the 3d industry and it may be a very popular suite of tools soon.

 

Plus, you have an inventive community here, and the nature of the Substance tool suite means that people would be constantly inventing new stuff and sharing.

 

Your methods of working with vertex paint are really cool and as far as i know, unique. this would be a great opportunity for allegorithmic to show the power of their generative stuff within a highpoly app.

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Andrew contacted them about this initially, but I think it's Allegorithmic that decided to can the idea...seeing that 3D Coat is now a direct competitor with Substance Painter. I asked him about something similar with Quixel (dDo plugin?) and got a similar answer.

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By the way , we definitely need more pbr / smart materials.

+1. I guess we'll have to rely on the community building and sharing PBR materials. I asked Andrew if it might be feasible to use the library of maps from the Quixel Suite to build a bigger collection of PBR materials. He didn't know if it would cause a legal issue or not. That is not a problem when the community shares their own PBR materials amongst each other (in the Exchange section of this forum)

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You can't be. :)

 

 

But that's also the point I think, why always with 100% realism? If it looks good, it looks good!

 

For what it's worth, I have a large repository of PBR materials I've made for myself. I'm thinning them down a bit, and plan to release them into the wild at some point. Depending on interest.

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Yeah i know.

 

We are interested of course , even paid if its necessary to keep you busy working.

 

I got myself a nice collection but it takes a lot of time to create them and at the very end my projects are all under signed NDA and i cant release them , many times they are so client and project specific that even i cant re use them. 

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Hey Michael!

 

I know what you mean on the client specific ones. It's funny how that works. And yeah, they take a while to make! I made almost 170 so far, but some of them are so project specific that they are useless elsewhere. Seemingly at least. Some of them are also variations on others.

 

What I think would be cool is to have presets for Smart Materials, where you can name them and select them quickly from a dropdown list. Like an edge wear for metal could have different levels of edge wear based on whatever you want. Save preset. Done. I mean, they are really just simple parameters anyway, so long as the images are changing, I don't think it would be an issue.

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Great idea , just like renderman Disney materials or any other one with material presets.

 

Got about 90 to 100 (pbr)  from 3 projects on the Pro version, around 60 seamless cartoon styles ones (non pbr)  and about 20 to 30 on the Edu version which i think they are lost now.

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Andrew contacted them about this initially, but I think it's Allegorithmic that decided to can the idea...seeing that 3D Coat is now a direct competitor with Substance Painter. I asked him about something similar with Quixel (dDo plugin?) and got a similar answer.

 

 

Too bad  ,  as far i know from contacting with their team leader  they are really cool guys.

 

 

Damn, I was REALLY hoping for this too!

 

Admittedly I haven't tried painting in 3DC yet, but I certainly don't see 3DC and Painter as competitors!  I'd continue buying both, especially as I love them both!

 

3DC is my all-around swiss army knife for voxel sculpting, retopo and UVing, where as Substances are usable in Unity, Unreal Engine, MODO and Maya.

 

 

Being able to create Substances in Designer or Painter and also apply them to my modelsin 3DC would be so nice!

 

I think a collaboration between the two would be wonderful; I can envision percentages off of Alle's tools when buying 3DC or vice versa, perhaps even the genius of Andrew and the guys over at 'Alle could come up with something unique together that puts some dings into ZBrush's domination...

 

I mean you can paint in MODO and Maya, and they have Substance support?  I hope this wasn't anything personal.

 

It's just not fair!  (stomps out like a crying kidd...)

 

 

-Will

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Great idea , just like renderman Disney materials or any other one with material presets.

 

Got about 90 to 100 (pbr)  from 3 projects on the Pro version, around 60 seamless cartoon styles ones (non pbr)  and about 20 to 30 on the Edu version which i think they are lost now.

 

If you still have the EDU version installed, go there and save your presets out to file. I hope you didn't lose them!

 

I make them with designer 5 and M2B , especially M2B gets them really fast.

 

 

That's cool. I haven't upgrade to Designer 5, but it looks pretty nice. :) I also use B2M (assuming you meant that, if not, is there another tool I haven't heard of?). I also use PixPlant to generate some randomness when I need it with seamlessness.

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Damn, I was REALLY hoping for this too!

 

Admittedly I haven't tried painting in 3DC yet, but I certainly don't see 3DC and Painter as competitors!  I'd continue buying both, especially as I love them both!

 

3DC is my all-around swiss army knife for voxel sculpting, retopo and UVing, where as Substances are usable in Unity, Unreal Engine, MODO and Maya.

 

 

Being able to create Substances in Designer or Painter and also apply them to my modelsin 3DC would be so nice!

 

I think a collaboration between the two would be wonderful; I can envision percentages off of Alle's tools when buying 3DC or vice versa, perhaps even the genius of Andrew and the guys over at 'Alle could come up with something unique together that puts some dings into ZBrush's domination...

 

I mean you can paint in MODO and Maya, and they have Substance support?  I hope this wasn't anything personal.

 

It's just not fair!  (stomps out like a crying kidd...)

 

 

-Will

 

 

I'm not sure if it was anything personal, but when I first contacted them, they were not too keen at that time either. Andrew had a little better luck. But if you guys want it, you should definitely contact them and put the pressure on! We'd love to have Substances in 3D-Coat as well! I'm just not sure why they view us as a competitor, we certainly don't view them that way. :)

 

You are right about Modo though. What is good for the goose, may not be good for the gander.

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I also would really love to be able to use substance materials in 3D-Coat.  I recently had to stop using 3D-coat at work because we had Substance Painter installed and had to create and share materials for the sake of consistency.  50 hours or so in Painter later. . I can say it is great for creating procedural based textures which can be shared, tweaked and reused. .and are small in size, fast and scaleable.   However I miss the more developed painting, brushes and stenciling and import export options of 3D-Coat.

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If you still have the EDU version installed, go there and save your presets out to file. I hope you didn't lose them!

 

 

 

That's cool. I haven't upgrade to Designer 5, but it looks pretty nice. :) I also use B2M (assuming you meant that, if not, is there another tool I haven't heard of?). I also use PixPlant to generate some randomness when I need it with seamlessness.

 

Honestly wasnt expectinting nothing less from you Javis , you are the man.

 

Yes we are talking about the same Material 2 Texture.

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I also would really love to be able to use substance materials in 3D-Coat.  I recently had to stop using 3D-coat at work because we had Substance Painter installed and had to create and share materials for the sake of consistency.  50 hours or so in Painter later. . I can say it is great for creating procedural based textures which can be shared, tweaked and reused. .and are small in size, fast and scaleable.   However I miss the more developed painting, brushes and stenciling and import export options of 3D-Coat.

 

Well, I guess your opinions stated here may have been some of the reason behind 'Alle's reluctance.

 

 

But to me that's like Adobe saying they don't want their plugins compatible with COREL Draw because CD is a competitor and folks may not want to use Photoshop afterwards...

 

IMO, Substance Designer is the crown jewel of Allegorithmic's suite of tools.  Folks may or may not need or buy into Painter, BUT you will always have a need for Designer if you want to author your own Substances.

 

Those Substances are then usable across UE4, Unity, MODO, Maya, and surely some others I have missed.

 

 

I can't see how anyone that uses both 3DC and Substance tools see them as competitors?

 

Sure, someone looking at 3DC and Painter may ask "which one should I get", but 3DC is a huge toolbox of functionality which includes sculpting, modeling (hopefully soon in a dedicated room) and UV editing and more.

 

Painter is (currently) a painting app.  The two IMO just aren't in competition because if someone IS also interested in 3DC's modeling aspects, then Painter is immediately eliminated anyway.

 

If you want to compare the two just on painting alone, then you're carrying a bunch of potentially unused functionality going with 3DC, and then there's the cost factor - which one is less expensive? Painter?  I don't remember off the top of my head.  I would imagine Substance Indie suite is perhaps less than 3DC?

 

 

Still however, your opinion would be a case for their concern.  Then I guess there is 'Alle's unstated goals?  Perhaps they want to be THE premier painting application topping even 3DC's painting features - if that's the case then, there ya go.

 

That still shouldn't stop someone who uses 3DC to also want Designer (and their authored Substances to be usable in 3DC, so again, we've come full circle...)

 

I hope that 'Alle reconsiders this - they should want their Substances to spread across the entire 3D graphics ecosystem by having as many hosts as possible.

 

I will definitely put in my votes over at their User Voice board!

 

 

-Will

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I have Substance Designer 5 too and will be happy about a bridge or better a interagtion :-)

Maybe like Presets like in Unreal Engine or in Cienma 4d.

 

In 3D-Coat it will be great when the material setting of SD5 will be work as brush in 3D-Coat !?

 

Maybe the way is with Material-ID Maps?

Paint in 3D-Coat on a Color Material ID Layer at the same time that paint other material or color pixel.

 

Universal Painting Substance Designer Materials (or one of the channels color, ambient, specular, ect.) maybe feel nicer :-)

 

http://3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=17856

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+1 here. I love 3DC, but Subtances integration with Unity means I have to start looking more to them for my materials ongoing. Additionally Painter doesn't have anywhere near the greatt feedback that 3DC gives whilst painting in my opinion. And there are even small other things like that you can't hide individual parts /submeshes of an fbx/ obj whilst working with your model in Painter (or Designer)

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sorry for necroing this thread..dint look at date - but it´s still an issue i guess

 

i regard it as a trait of unprofessionality on the side of allegorithmic to not comment on that. makes it less likley for me to invest in these companies products. in my work i have to juggle with a lot of these programs and therefore my support and interest goes towards companies that have an understanding of this, because their additute has the effect of at least some people having less free time for friends and family, being more exhausted because of that extra work all the time. of course sales of both 3dcoat and substance would increase if these worked together well, at least from my understanding of the industry. i highly appreceate the attempts of the coat team to get into some communication with allego about this.

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Sorry for the noob question, but what prevents using substances in 3D-Coat? Will Substance Designer not export them as bitmaps that could be used for painting in 3D-Coat?

I'm asking because I was originally interested in buying Substance Painter until I learned it can't paint across UDIM tiles and attached objects the way 3D-Coat can. So now I'm looking at buying 3D-Coat instead, as well as obtaining Substance Designer to create the materials.

If it's true that the two products go together like oil and water, then what alternative materials-creation programs do work well with 3D-Coat?

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SD can export images in the metal / rough workflow , and those images can be used in 3D Coat to create smart materials.

Allegorithmic  is a bit "strange/hard to get" on cooperation's....

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