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Andrew Shpagin

3DCoat 4.7 (BETA testing thread)

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Allow me to add a little clarity to the issue about whether or not to even add plugin support for external renders. It does NOT take away development resources from areas of the app, like Painting, Retopo or Sculpting. Why? Because Andrew is pretty much the only person who can work on 3D Coat at a deep level to redesign Paint layers, extend functionality to the UV room (UV tiles?), or improvements to sculpting. He has Carrots working on the rendering side of things, and it's my understanding that rather than rebuild the Render environment from scratch, they chose to put their development efforts into 3rd party plugin integration.

Renderman integration is already underway and expected soon. Andrew is still working addressing the feature requests he promised a few years ago (Paint Room layers/layer masks/Smart Material adjustments per layer, etc.). It's deep, core-level work and is taking time for him to get through all of this, and beyond those features by themselves, there is a little GPU goodness treat that will come with it (can't say anymore than that). :D 

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1 minute ago, puntoit said:

@AbnRanger thanks for clarification.
Interestingly though this subject has brought up a lot of wishes of the users what they/we would like to see in further development in 3dc.

Yeah, I've been waiting for years for Sculpt room improvements...especially Sculpt layers. But it seems the folks who want Paint Room work done, have the next number in line. Andrew is the only one who can do deep, core level work on the app, so those of us waiting for some Sculpt room love, will have to wait awhile, it seems.

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AbnRanger, thank you.

Maybe we customers/artists should know a bit more about future development, while I see a roadmap of things to come in Trello, I don't have a clue about what actually is in development. While I have no doubt of using 3DCoat now and forever, even if I met some flaw, it would be nice to have some news about the next features shared with the world, also for fueling focus on the product, making customers happier and let artists sharpening their creativity.

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yeah. Sculpt layers would be great.

But if the Paint room is next, here are some ideas:

- last year I tried to texture a modern train in 3dc and had problems using the rectangular mask in the e-panel. To cover the whole wagon I had to zoom out and this resulted in very fuzzy borders. The Zoom - Resolution ratio could use some work.

- Often I paint a whole layer with a material and then use another layer as a mask. Here it would be nice to hide the mask layer, but still be able to work on it and then see the result of the layer to be masked in the viewport.

- let us use Substances (.sbsar) in Paint room and Sculpt room for painting, stencils, brushes, materials and so on.

Edited by puntoit

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55 minutes ago, puntoit said:

now that I see the Trello link I am happy to see that Substances are on the roadmap.

Requests in Trello have no relation to the Road Map. Substances in 3D Coat would require permission/collaboration from Allegorithmic and Andrew told me some time ago that they aren't willing to do that, as they are a direct competitor.

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...same thing with Quixel. They are direct competitors in the market, and they aren't interested in helping 3D Coat, even though it involves usage of their software to some degree.

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2 minutes ago, AbnRanger said:

Requests in Trello have no relation to the Road Map. Substances in 3D Coat would require permission/collaboration from Allegorithmic and Andrew told me some time ago that they aren't willing to do that, as they are a direct competitor.

What a shame, because Substance Designer is a great program, especially for technical artists like me, and I've used it with 3DCoat.
What a shame, but I can see their point.

In last months I'm watching this: https://www.youtube.com/user/PixaFlux
It seems promising, while UI is just essential.

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1 hour ago, thinkinmonkey said:

AbnRanger, thank you.

Maybe we customers/artists should know a bit more about future development, while I see a roadmap of things to come in Trello, I don't have a clue about what actually is in development. While I have no doubt of using 3DCoat now and forever, even if I met some flaw, it would be nice to have some news about the next features shared with the world, also for fueling focus on the product, making customers happier and let artists sharpening their creativity.

Maybe Andrew can chime in, and he has in the past. But he has already mentioned here, a few months back, what he was focusing on next. Paint room layers/layer masks was the main thing. He also has to squash bugs and such. He gives more information about current and near term development than most software developers do. It's very rare, actually.

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12 minutes ago, AbnRanger said:

Requests in Trello have no relation to the Road Map. Substances in 3D Coat would require permission/collaboration from Allegorithmic and Andrew told me some time ago that they aren't willing to do that, as they are a direct competitor.

while this is partly understandable I will try to talk to them in 2 weeks at the fmx in Stuttgart. They seem OK and very fair. So maybe some way can be found.

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2 minutes ago, thinkinmonkey said:

What a shame, because Substance Designer is a great program, especially for technical artists like me, and I've used it with 3DCoat.
What a shame, but I can see their point.

In last months I'm watching this: https://www.youtube.com/user/PixaFlux
It seems promising, while UI is just essential.

If you are looking for node based UI elements in 3D Coat, you are probably in the wrong app. Andrew considered a nodal interface when he designed the PBR Smart Materials Editor, and he decided to keep it simple...layer based, rather than node based. The reasoning is obvious. 3D Coat is designed to be very Photoshop-centric, so artists are more familiar with how things work in the app. If you want nodes, Substance Painter/Designer is probably better suited for you.

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1 minute ago, AbnRanger said:

If you are looking for node based UI elements in 3D Coat, you are probably in the wrong app. Andrew considered a nodal interface when he designed the PBR Smart Materials Editor, and he decided to keep it simple...layer based, rather than node based. The reasoning is obvious. 3D Coat is designed to be very Photoshop-centric, so artists are more familiar with how things work in the app. If you want nodes, Substance Painter/Designer is probably better suited for you.

Even though nodes would be appreciated, I think most of us would be happy to just use adjustable sbsars for painting and sculpting.

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6 minutes ago, AbnRanger said:

If you are looking for node based UI elements in 3D Coat, you are probably in the wrong app. Andrew considered a nodal interface when he designed the PBR Smart Materials Editor, and he decided to keep it simple...layer based, rather than node based. The reasoning is obvious. 3D Coat is designed to be very Photoshop-centric, so artists are more familiar with how things work in the app. If you want nodes, Substance Painter/Designer is probably better suited for you.

No, no, maybe I didn't state correctly!

I wanted to say that I would really appreciate to have Substance Designer textures inside 3DCoat, like you can have it inside Houdini or Unreal, for example, so you modify the texture network in Designer and you'll get update in 3DCoat or whatever program you use.

In no part of my statement I said I want 3DCoat to be nodal! I don't see where I wrote it and, to be honest, I don't see why 3DCoat should be nodal, when, as you said, it's a Photoshop-centric app. I'm happy with 3DCoat as it is now, I don't want to change it.

The shame was about not be able to use the power of nodal textures of Designer alongside the immediate (and powerful) painting feature of 3Dcoat, because they see 3DCoat as competitor, of course, for their Painter, not for their Designer.

I know you can do export/import textures between apps, but it could be more easy importing directly the Designer file.

Again, I like 3DCoat as it is, I own also Substance Live licence, I have both Designer and Painter, and, to be honest with you and to be even more out of topic, I don't know why, but when I open Painter I feel discouraged and confused, I don't know where to start painting, while 3DC seems to me more straightforward: I promised myself, after finishing the project I'm currently working on, to give it a deeper look, in the end I'm paying for it without using and it's not good for business.

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On 4/13/2017 at 4:42 PM, AbnRanger said:

Yeah, I've been waiting for years for Sculpt room improvements...especially Sculpt layers. But it seems the folks who want Paint Room work done, have the next number in line. Andrew is the only one who can do deep, core level work on the app, so those of us waiting for some Sculpt room love, will have to wait awhile, it seems.

Please Liquify tool in paintroom that work on the 3d viewport with symmetry!
The distort tool during projection painting is so close but its 2d and only works for projections.

I don't really use 3dcoat for sculpting so my requests will be biased. :D

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2 hours ago, geo_n said:

Please Liquify tool in paintroom that work on the 3d viewport with symmetry!
The distort tool during projection painting is so close but its 2d and only works for projections.

I don't really use 3dcoat for sculpting so my requests will be biased. :D

I agree, totally. You may want to shoot Andrew an e-mail asking for this. Just add SHIFT to the SHIFT tool, so it does exactly as the name implies. Smudge is nice to have, but it doesn't shift pixels. It smears them. Would be nice to add ROTATE to the list of tools in that group

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22 hours ago, tartinebrule said:

Hello, hello.

Would be be possible to have a 4.7.26 build for linux?

many thanks.

I was waiting for a 4.7.26 Linux release as well. It would be much appreciated.

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Regarding the substances, or lack there of...
If procedural noise/patterns can get added, as well as the method in which to modify the values/behavior of those noise/patterns... then they could be used in a similar fashion to substances. At least within 3DC itself, since outside applications (maya, modo..ect) have direct ".sbar" support these days. The output maps can be used however. --> https://trello.com/c/BgbsyDSK

With regards to nodes, that's a tough one. Layers are basically nodes, only they are stacked and layered in a fairly linear fashion. What nodes bring to the table is a mixture visual UI  elements and user options in regards to input/behavior. While I am not entirely sure it would be a perfect match for 3DCoat (as it stands now), I do think it could benefit from a more basic form of nodal workflow... at the very least as far as noise/pattern set ups go. They could be extremely powerful when used with voxels and mesh generation as well.

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13 minutes ago, RabenWulf said:

Regarding the substances, or lack there of...
If procedural noise/patterns can get added, as well as the method in which to modify the values/behavior of those noise/patterns... then they could be used in a similar fashion to substances. At least within 3DC itself, since outside applications (maya, modo..ect) have direct ".sbar" support these days. The output maps can be used however. --> https://trello.com/c/BgbsyDSK

With regards to nodes, that's a tough one. Layers are basically nodes, only they are stacked and layered in a fairly linear fashion. What nodes bring to the table is a mixture visual UI  elements and user options in regards to input/behavior. While I am not entirely sure it would be a perfect match for 3DCoat (as it stands now), I do think it could benefit from a more basic form of nodal workflow... at the very least as far as noise/pattern set ups go. They could be extremely powerful when used with voxels and mesh generation as well.

great idea.

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2 hours ago, puntoit said:

great idea.

Shoot Andrew an e-mail asking for that (noise generator), because I have asked him repeatedly for the past few years, and all he tells me is that it's not easy:blink: That's strange, because many of the most helpful toolsets in 3D Coat, were likely a big headache and quite laborious to do (Multi-threading the switch between Voxel and Surface mode...used to take a long time to do...PBR viewports, Smart Materials, PBR Shaders, Bake Scan Settings Dialog, Auto-Retopo, Vertex Paint, etc.).

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Hi about newest beta,Windows [4.7.26]:Retopo->Bake->Baking scan settings

I could brush and set depth for baking circulation, and it worked,, but after I use this new scan setting future, and export mesh with texture from paint room (transfered mesh to paint room with texture from retopo room),to another aprication,, the mesh deformed by the brush setting without apply any normal map.

I think, the defomation by brush need to work only for bake circulation process.  not deform actuall mesh right?  but at current it seems deform actuall geometry of mesh when export.  I think.  though I could export  retopo mesh from retopo room, then apply generated texture in other apricaiton, but I think it need to report.  or the brush defomation for Baking scan setting, actually change geometry of mesh?

inpaintroom.JPG

import.JPG

retopomsh.JPG

Edited by tokikake
add image in retopo room (after baking with depth adjustment)

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@tokikatke. I have not experienced the problem you are talking about. Using the Baking Scan Settings tool does not alter my exported meshes either from the paint room or the retopo room.

Can you share your file if not under a NDA agreement for others to look at. You my pm me in a private message a link to download your 3DC file to check it out... 

 

Edited by digman

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Hi expert, when I test another 3d coat file with different model,(maybe more clean and high poligon mesh) it not show this problem. but

about this prop, whenever export mesh from paint room, and import to another aprication (not only about blender, but daz studio too), this problem happen.

I know this porp is too low poligon to maintein bake detail from scupted mesh,, then I tried  to adjust hard with new paint scan setting ,  to reach lay innner mesh.

I may feel if this file corrupted. then I hope you test the 3d coat scene and obj, then send PM and link for drop box. thanks. 

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