3DCoat 4.7 (BETA testing thread)

[puntoit]

Thank You very much Andrew.
A wonderful decision and I tested it and it works great.
As you know us artists; you give us a finger and we ask for the whole hand (german saying).
For a future release might it be possible to have those Push/Pull tools also in Retopo room?
Also it would be great to save/export the cage and also load/import it.
I love 3D-Coat and if you would release the next update right now I would immediately buy it 5 minutes later because of the good and constant updates being done.

Thanks

[AbnRanger]

16 minutes ago, puntoit said:

Thank You very much Andrew.
A wonderful decision and I tested it and it works great.
As you know us artists; you give us a finger and we ask for the whole hand (german saying).
For a future release might it be possible to have those Push/Pull tools also in Retopo room?
Also it would be great to save/export the cage and also load/import it.
I love 3D-Coat and if you would release the next update right now I would immediately buy it 5 minutes later because of the good and constant updates being done.

Thanks

I don't think it's "asking for the whole hand" to mention areas of a tool that still need some attention/polish. That is the whole purpose of Open Beta...to let the community get a crack at new tools and offer their input, whether it's spotting bugs or suggestions for refinement of the features.

[Michaelgdrs]

Great ,great , great addition , will help soooooo much.

 

I agree with what previous advance users just wrote , plus i had a crash on GL when i used the last option (icon 4).

WHEN and IF possible of course.

 

P.S

Noticed also a speed up on autoretopo and better results with the exact same values and test model i use. 

Any work there as well?? Or its it just me ?

[puntoit]

in order to test the new tool I had to model and autopo something and also I had the impression that it does a better job than before. especially on low poly counts (3000 for a simple character).

[puntoit]

17 minutes ago, AbnRanger said:

I don't think it's "asking for the whole hand" to mention areas of a tool that still need some attention/polish. That is the whole purpose of Open Beta...to let the community get a crack at new tools and offer their input, whether it's spotting bugs or suggestions for refinement of the features.

just in case this might have been received wrong.
It is not a negative saying.
It might probably be translated like " Now you´ve opened up a can of worms".
(as a non-native english speaker I hope I got that one right )

[AbnRanger]

21 minutes ago, puntoit said:

just in case this might have been received wrong.
It is not a negative saying.
It might probably be translated like " Now you´ve opened up a can of worms".
(as a non-native english speaker I hope I got that one right )

Understood, but it seems like it would be most beneficial to offer input on a new feature before Andrew moves on to something else. In fact, I think every major new feature should undergo a "Refinement" stage before Andrew moves onto the next. That way no new features are viewed as half done or rushed.

[puntoit]

I agree

[AbnRanger]

Here is a screengrab of the issue with the RELAX option. It does the same thing if SHIFT is held down, in any mode.

[AbnRanger]

Some general bugginess with the RELAX mode. Not usable at all.

[ajz3d]

This is awesome! But, but... what about "Update Islands" tool?

Edited March 8, 2017 by ajz3d

[puntoit]

Regarding AbnRangers post 2 before this one.
maybe an added function like the visual offset we have in the retopo could be added as a real offset. So that the vertices will always keep that defined distance to the point on the surface where they would snap to. That offset value then could be changed for the next paint strokes.
Again a tool that would also be handy in the retopo workflow..

Edited March 8, 2017 by puntoit
I was to slow while typing

[digman]

Here is an example... My outside scan depth is just at "1" I set inside at 2, really did not test that yet... 

Side note: I know that outside / inside scan depth is relative to the scale of your model. In my example it is what most would consider a normal outside scan depth for this scale of model before adjusting the cage locally.

I would have to put my outside scan depth at 10 to completely cover the model without using the Paint method for the cage and you would get mesh intersection.

The old spheres method would be a tedious chore as there are a lot of edge areas that would need them. As an artist, painting feels natural, so now painting the cage to make it conform better feels natural as well. No more clicking to say I want a new sphere, then placing it, then rinse and repeat over and over again. Now just paint away like you texture on areas that need it. Wonderful...

So far I have not encountered any bugs, that is not to say that others have not... 

The suggestions for areas of improvement in the tool are good, like supporting symmetry. Relax does feel closer to just like pushing in the depth, maybe some tweaking there etc, etc...

Edited March 9, 2017 by digman

[jene]

Thank you for your hard work,  Andrew and all of Developers.

it's a very good new mode.

but, my preference data crashed and all be reset  when I test new bake depth tool. I'm a little sad.

and, depend on models, sometime the tool doesn't operate.

[digman]

The below is only a personal preference and the choice is up to each user and not related to the new paint cage method.

I found more frequent crashing of 3DC since now you can have several beta 4.7 versions installed at one time... They still share the same User/ 3DCoat folder. I would imagine that Andrew has some internal function that keeps everything in order but maybe something is a little screwy but that is only a quess on my part.

I now only have one version installed at a time and do not seem to crash nearly as much as when having several  beta 4.7 versions installed... Remember this is a subjective assumption.

Edited March 9, 2017 by digman

[Speike-Styles]

56 minutes ago, digman said:

The below is only a personal preference and the choice is up to each user and not related to the new paint cage method.

I found more frequent crashing of 3DC since now you can have several beta 4.7 versions installed at one time... They still share the same User/ 3DCoat folder. I would imagine that Andrew has some internal function that keeps everything in order but maybe something is a little screwy but that is only a quess on my part.

I now only have one version installed at a time and do not seem to crash nearly as much as when having several  beta 4.7 versions installed... Remember this is a subjective assumption.

Yes this is so true, it is annoying to do so. What I came up with is just change the folders name and then if I am using a different version switch it etc.. "A_3DCoat folder" "B_3DCoat folder" you know?

 

Btw the new tool is just what I was missing thanks for adding this. I was using the extrude tool / Annoying!

So good new tool!

[digman]

@Speike-Styles... Yep, that is what I use to do too then decided to just run one and 4.1.17D for painting non-pbr. 4.1.17D has it's own separate folder created by 3DC...

[Speike-Styles]

Anyone else having this Problem with the Clay tool? With or without any changed options it makes weird strokes if you have symmetry activated.

 

 

Edited March 9, 2017 by Speike-Styles

[Speike-Styles]

BTW @Andrew Shpagin
Whatever you did in this Beta just gave 3DCoat a huge boost. Seems like you might have fixed a memory leak.

In the render room I get with 16 Million Polygons a 600 FPS I used to get only 12 FPS & that with a GTX 1080 32GB i7-6700k.

GJ here!

Edited March 9, 2017 by Speike-Styles

[digman]

Paint local adjustment test.

Another test to share... autopo at 1158 polygons, kelp it lower for the test. It needs a few more polygons here and there but good for the test. In the test I would have to increase the outward scan depth to four to globally push the cage beyond all mesh areas.

This new method is by far better and more user friendly as I already stated. You can for sure keep your cage closer to the mesh, then using the paint method for your locally adjustments. This in turn gives higher quality normal maps.  

--------------------------------------

Features for the future I like to see. 

1. Support of symmetry, time saver plus one adjusted axis is the same across the opposite axis.

2. Ability to export the cage from the tools dialog panel. You could export your stages and revert back to an earlier one if necessary or the ability to save in a special file format.

---------------------------------------

Bugs.

I have crashed a couple of times holding down the shift key. 

Crashed a couple of times using "restoring original scan depth" (last icon on the right) 

Not enough information gathered for a bug report yet.

----------------------------------------

Again, thanks Andrew for this very much needed local cage adjustment method.

 

Edited March 10, 2017 by digman

[Andrew Shpagin]

4.7.26 [beta]

- Retopo->Bake->Baking scan settings - fixed crash, save/load available, symmetry works.

- Fixed problem of slow switching between tools after long time.

[Carlosan]

- Is this request solved with this new feature ?

0001648: Bake scan settings - every UVset need to use their own setting, not a global one.

- After press ok, cant see the changes in the geometry. Is this correct ?

- How can i change the brush pen pressure ? Change a lot because mesh size.

- Make 2 retogroups > Modify the baking scan settings using this new method > Press ok > add a new retopo group > open again the bake scan settings = the new retopo group is deformed by an area of influence.

[AbnRanger]

Thanks for the new changes, Andrew. After testing, I noticed a few small things that need to be cleaned up:

1) Sometimes when brushing, 3D Coat will select/highlight Sub-Elements like faces and vertices. 

2) When SHIFT is held down, to relax, the Brush Radius is very tiny

3) There does need to be some DEPTH/INTENSITY profile like one sees will all brushing operations in 3D Coat.

Overall, the changes have made Baking a LOT easier and faster, so thanks again for the hard work on this.

 

[Andrew Shpagin]

1 hour ago, Carlosan said:

 

Quote

- Is this request solved with this new feature ?

No

Quote

- After press ok, cant see the changes in the geometry. Is this correct ?

Correct, it is only for baking

Quote

- How can i change the brush pen pressure ? Change a lot because mesh size.

ok, I will add

Quote

- Make 2 retogroups > Modify the baking scan settings using this new method > Press ok > add a new retopo group > open again the bake scan settings = the new retopo group is deformed by an area of influence.

Area is defined as volumetric function, it is not tied to geometry. So it is global in space, not related to retopo geometry.

[Andrew Shpagin]

Forgot to mention - Update islands issue resolved too.

[digman]

Thanks for the Crash fix, symmetry support and saving the cage information. 

Ah another item Andrew forgot to mention... The scan depth inputs now have sliders... Yahoo!

@AbnRanger. In version beta 4.7.26, I notice the selection issue is not there so far.  The selection issue really did not select anything but was a little distracting till you started to brush and then it went away but reappear as soon as you stopped brushing.

Great news also on the update islands fix... 

Edited March 10, 2017 by digman

[AbnRanger]

8 minutes ago, digman said:

Thanks for the Crash fix, symmetry support and saving the cage information. 

Ah another item Andrew forgot to mention... The scan depth inputs now have sliders... Yahoo!

@AbnRanger. In version beta 4.7.26, I notice the selection issue is not there so far.  The selection issue really did not select anything but was a little distracting till you started to brush and then it went away but reappear as soon as you stopped brushing.

Great news also on the update islands fix... 

The selection issues when brushing was on 4.7.26. I really hate seeing that highlighted polygon floating around every time I use the Brush tool. This is an extension of that annoying problem.

[AbnRanger]

...you can see 3D Coat highlighting the polygon under the brush, when the BRUSH tool is used. Can we please fix that? It is so distracting, annoying, and unnecessary.

 

[digman]

@AnnRanger... Strange it is not happening on my end in the paint cage mode only the center cursor dot is there like normal. Also when I hold down the shift key, the yellow ring stays the same size.

Using the regular brush tool under "Edit Geometry" is also devoid of the what I see in your picture, On my end works as expected. 

version 4.7.26.

So I am not sure what is going on there. I do keep only one beta version installed and not several because of problems I experienced with having several betas installed. Not saying this is the issue but only what I exprerienced.

Edited March 10, 2017 by digman

[AbnRanger]

21 minutes ago, digman said:

@AnnRanger... Strange it is not happening on my end in the paint cage mode only the center cursor dot is there like normal. Also when I hold down the shift key, the yellow ring stays the same size.

Using the regular brush tool under "Edit Geometry" is also devoid of the what I see in your picture, On my end works as expected. 

version 4.7.26.

So I am not sure what is going on there. I do keep only one beta version installed and not several because of problems I experienced with having several betas installed. Not saying this is the issue but only what I exprerienced.

Ok. I see why/when it occurs. If you are working on a Retopo mesh where the underlying Voxel object is either Ghosted or hidden, 3D Coat always highlights the polygon or vertices under the brush. We need an option to ghost visible voxel layers when the BAKE SCAN SETTINGS DIALOG is open, and the INNER cage preview is checked. 3D Coat blocks the user from doing this (or anything else in the UI) when this dialog is open. That means I constantly find myself having to close the dialog > ghost the voxel layer > re-open the dialog. Wasted steps.

Yes, one should ghost before opening it, but it's easy to forget that you need to (because you can't while it's open). I would suggest ghosting all visible voxel layers while the INNER CAGE PREVIEW is active/checked. Why? Because it's impossible to see the cage depth inside the object. Ghosting is critical to making proper adjustments to the INNER cage. Thus it should be ghosted by default. Perhaps add a check box to un-ghost visible voxel layers, for those who may not want this.

 

[AbnRanger]

I also forgot to mention that NEW USERS will not know about voxel layer Ghosting. It's a trick (work-around) that I use, personally, but ghosting the voxel object is necessary for properly adjusting the INNER cage. Therefore, it should be a default feature.