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BodyPaint 3D now using GPU for texture Painting


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7 hours ago, geo_n said:

Not without quad based multi res poly sculpting.
People who use 3dcoat, zbrush still use zbrush for sculpting because its just more powerful than 3dcoats image based sculpting.

Modo offers both sculpting methods. Its trying to catch up. Maybe modo 12 it would be as fast as 3dcoat painting and powerful enough to do multires sculpting like zbrush.

Quad-based has some advantages, but it usually requires very clean topology (to get those nice clean edges without a lot of resolution) to start with. Same with Mudbox. But in areas where it may not be so clean, you have to jack up the resolution to keep from getting that rough look sculpting edges or lines that run diagonally across edgeloops. In that regard, it's not much different than 3D Coat's triangles. and then you also have the polygonal stretching...with Dynamesh is intended to help address. That's their version of 3D Coat's voxels > converted back to polygons.

I don't feel the need for quad-based sculpting. Dynamic Subdivision pretty much offsets it's advantage. It's really just a matter of offering Sculpt Layers and the ability to mask parts of those layers....like Mudbox does (more elegant and stable than ZBrush's). If Andrew can do that, change the Paint and Sculpt engine to GPU, + add a lot more procedural noise patterns, then there really is no longer a clearcut advantage, IMHO. Some who are used to ZB for years are going to still prefer their brushes, and some tools, but that will just be a matter of preference....not superiority.

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The way we work is still use a base mesh in 3dmax, maya, etc, like rigged character, and then bring that to zbrush and sculpt on it and then export out all the maps. The quality of the displacements and normalmaps is great using zbrush multires quad sculpting. Base mesh is intact.

For 3dcoat we can't get the same detail using image based sculpting and the experience is not so smooth sculpting detailed displacments.
We hardly use the sculpt room and its surface tools unless its concepts and doodles. There's no way to work with sculpt room that gives us flexibility like zbrush to seamlessly work with a base mesh. One way workflow with 3dcoat sculpting. Once you import in sculpt room your base mesh is useless.

For painting 3dcoat is a must have though.

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16 hours ago, geo_n said:

The way we work is still use a base mesh in 3dmax, maya, etc, like rigged character, and then bring that to zbrush and sculpt on it and then export out all the maps. The quality of the displacements and normalmaps is great using zbrush multires quad sculpting. Base mesh is intact.

For 3dcoat we can't get the same detail using image based sculpting and the experience is not so smooth sculpting detailed displacments.
We hardly use the sculpt room and its surface tools unless its concepts and doodles. There's no way to work with sculpt room that gives us flexibility like zbrush to seamlessly work with a base mesh. One way workflow with 3dcoat sculpting. Once you import in sculpt room your base mesh is useless.

For painting 3dcoat is a must have though.

This is just not true. You've ALWAYS been able to import your base mesh into the Retopo Room > bring a copy of it into the Sculpt room from the IMPORT Tool (Sculpt room)....at the bottom of the Tool Options panel click Pick from Retopo. Then whenever you use large scale transform tools, you have the option to make the BASE/RETOPO mesh conform to the high poly sculpt. I was the one who asked Andrew for the Conform to Retopo feature years ago. There is very little advantage of quad based sculpting over the approach in the Sculpt room. In fact, if you want to stick to that notion, I would challenge you to PROVE IT. Don't just claim it.

You sculpt something you feel can only be done effectively using Quad-Based sculpting....show the video on here, via Youtube or Vimeo, and I will try to replicate it in 3D Coat, recorded the same way. We will post the results on 3D Coat's Facebook page for everyone to see. Deal?

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...also, I should mention that Andrew recently added an option in the Sculpt Room (GEOMETRY Menu) to quickly bring in the visible mesh either from the Paint Room or the Retopo Room. This makes the task as easy as a simple click. Because I've been pounding the table for this, you also can now quickly replace your Paint Room model with one in the Retopo room, and if needed bake any sculpting edits directly onto the Paint Room object....all of this done from the RETOPO > BAKE menu. A lot of people underestimate 3D Coat's sculpting capabilities, but I'm going to try to change that perception once Andrew implements Sculpt Layers into the Sculpt room.

Some of the brushes are just fantastic, especially using Artman's presets.

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Just watched your vid. If this is the way you want to work then its up to you. Using a background constraint in 3dcoat looks ok.
We just prefer to make changes to a base mesh in zbrush like this video.
 

In 3dcoat the tweak room can edit the mesh to an extent and then you can paint displacements back in paintroom but imho zbrush way is just easier. Is it because zbrush uses a poly based sculpting toolset and not an image based sculpting toolset? Maybe.

Maybe the 3dc applink can make it easier but I haven't tried it for years if mesh edits are linked not just textures.
But then again if zbrush works already in this case, no need to change unless there's something vastly superior. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

I just know its very simple and direct to do things in zbrush in this case, in this part of the pipeline. I don't need to go through different rooms.
 

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1 hour ago, geo_n said:

Just watched your vid. If this is the way you want to work then its up to you. Using a background constraint in 3dcoat looks ok.
We just prefer to make changes to a base mesh in zbrush like this video.
 

In 3dcoat the tweak room can edit the mesh to an extent and then you can paint displacements back in paintroom but imho zbrush way is just easier. Is it because zbrush uses a poly based sculpting toolset and not an image based sculpting toolset? Maybe.

Maybe the 3dc applink can make it easier but I haven't tried it for years if mesh edits are linked not just textures.
But then again if zbrush works already in this case, no need to change unless there's something vastly superior. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

I just know its very simple and direct to do things in zbrush in this case, in this part of the pipeline. I don't need to go through different rooms.
 

Well, the benefit of doing it 3D Coat's way is that you do not need to be obsessed with topology WHILE YOU SCULPT, nor when building a base model suited just for sculpting in ZB (or Mudbox). With 3D Coat, you can model your base mesh for animation, like you would Retopologize it...rather for sculpting (evenly spaced quads). Or you can just build the model from scratch in 3D Coat. Either way, you don't need to model > sculpt > retopo. Just model > sculpt or sculpt > Retopo.

People make so much about ZB's brushes, but what about it's lack of 3DConnexion device support? That shaves off about an hour of work each day, and a lot of ZB users don't even realize how arcane their navigation really is! There is nothing like having the ability to sculpt, retopo and paint while simultaneously navigating around your model, rather than having to stop every freaking time. That would get on my last nerve. Just like that alien UI gets on my nerves.

Again, if Andrew were to implement Sculpt layers in the Sculpt room in an elegant way and switch the paint and sculpting brush engine to GPU, then I really do think...in terms of sculpting....3D Coat will turn out to be like that average looking girl you knew in High School, who is suddenly a head turner in College. :D As for the Tweak Room and image-based sculpting...image based is outstanding for minor protrusions or surface level details, like fine wrinkles, pores and bumps, but why would sculpting ultra fine details in LiveClay be out of the question? Lot's of fine hair strands and ultra-fine skin pores on this model:

 

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Hi all.

Sorry I prefer to avoid giving personal opinions, but let me add something:

The programs are designed to make the daily work easier . And daily work needs a fluid workflow.

The possibility of starting a low poly, make high levels of subdivision to sculpt , paint it and get back to low levels to make changes to the topology and pose, all in one window; has become a standard.

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3 hours ago, Carlosan said:

Hi all.

Sorry I prefer to avoid giving personal opinions, but let me add something:

The programs are designed to make the daily work easier . And daily work needs a fluid workflow.

The possibility of starting a low poly, make high levels of subdivision to sculpt , paint it and get back to low levels to make changes to the topology and pose, all in one window; has become a standard.

To do that in 3D Coat, would require a complete, multi-year in the dark, rewrite of half the application. What we are talking about here are changes in the app that are reasonable and doable. The task of stepping down to lower levels of subdivision already exist in 3D Coat. Just because it isn't implemented exactly the same way it is ZBrush or Mudbox, doesn't make it any less effective for it's designed purpose.

Again, with ZBrush/Mudbox, you practically need to create 2 different low poly meshes. One to start the sculpt with, and great attention has to be given to ensure the topology flows along certain contours or edges correctly, or it will make things difficult during the sculpt. Great attention also has to be given to ensure the mesh has relatively even-spaced quads. Once the sculpt is done, you need to retopologize the model to create more optimal topology for ANIMATION. This isn't the SMOOTH and EFFICIENT workflow many make it out to be. It's actually a pain in the bum.

In 3D Coat, you don't need everything in one workspace. You can model and sculpt all in the same workspace, and do so without any concern for the topology of the mesh...until you are ready to retopologize. How is that not a fluid workflow? Granted, we need Sculpt layers in the Sculpt Room, but beyond that and perhaps a GPU brush engine, there is no reason one cannot do production level sculpting in 3D Coat...at least to the same level as they could in Mudbox, if not ZBrush as well. I've used Mudbox, and it's nice, but Sculpt layers is the only thing I miss from it.

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