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1 minute ago, AbnRanger said:

How is RTX going to render scenes with engines that are CPU-based? A 32-core CPU will come in really handy when a GPU engine isn't available or you get Out of Core issues. Not to mention how much it can help with simulations. The GPUi

That's exactly what I was asking last night as I watched the video.  Watch the video carefully to the end. It's packed with very interesting information that may revolutionize  your opinions on what to buy next.

 

I"m not sure now. Your questions were already foremost in my mind but now things have changed.

 

Also I noticed that even thought they're claiming it does real time SSS there were no good examples of it in the video though I may have missed that part as I prepared my dinner..

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See? Industry is already ahead of the curve on this, working in concert with Nvidia

 

http://www.cgchannel.com/2018/08/video-chaos-groups-neat-new-real-time-ray-tracing-tech/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+cgchannel%2FnHpU+(CG+Channel+-+Entertainment+Production+Art)

 

Chaos Group has posted a demo of Project Lavina, its new real-time ray tracing system based on Microsoft’s DirectX Raytracing (DXR) technology.

The video shows a standard .vrscene file with a total of 300 billion triangles being rendered at over 25fps on a system containing a single Nvidia Quadro RTX 6000 GPU.

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The Quadro options are pretty pricey but this price list for the Nvidia GeForce RTX 2080 coming this week show a more affordable price range. Same GPU as the Quadros but faster (for gaming) and perhaps less  CUDA cores than Quadro series.

 

gtx.thumb.JPG.a27be788c4961d270f27046af14f26c0.JPG

 

At $699 I could get 2 of those and really boost my power. Threre's a special new NVlink for Nvidia Turings that make them operate effectively as one.

Also if you watch that keynote speech the CEO is saying that these GPUs will handle the heavy lifting on photostitching and 3d photogrammetry jobs too.

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Turing-GPU-1-1030x515.thumb.png.6eaee9ba2ca07852bd18d5116b7ca1a1.png

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Previously, when NVIDIA announced their RTX real-time ray tracking technology, there were questions about whether or not the technology would get any significant traction among developers. At the SIGGRAPH 2018 press conference, NVIDIA’s CEO Jensen Huang announced a slew of professional ISVs that are adopting NVIDIA’s RTX technology to enable its use in their software. These include programs like Adobe Dimension CC, Autodesk Arnold, Clarisse, DaVinci Resolve, Dassault Systemes Catia and Solidworks, Octane Render, ParaView, Redshift, Siemens NX, Unity and Unreal Engine. Having all of these companies onboard with RTX means that there’s a much higher probability that RTX will gain enough traction in the industry.  Principal Analyst Patrick Moorhead summed up ISV support saying it was a "done deal".

https://www.forbes.com/sites/moorinsights/2018/08/14/nvidia-doubles-down-on-ray-tracing-with-turing/#494606665bb2

 

Amazing to see Clarisse included in there; I've talked to Sam Assadian, its founder and he was pretty adamant that it would always be  CPU intensive and they wouldn't bother to go the GPU route..

 

In addition to giving details on the Quadro RTX series and the Turing GPU, NVIDIA also announced yet another appliance reference architecture. This new reference architecture from NVIDIA is called the RTX Serve and is designed to serve the needs of VFX studios and other companies doing visualization wanting photorealistic rendering with ray tracing in real-time or near real-time. Each NVIDIA RTX Server features eight RTX 8000 GPUs inside at a price of $500,000 which according to NVIDIA is a steal compared to $2 million worth of CPUs that it would take to accomplish the same amount of rendering. These servers are designed to sit rack-mounted in a data center or a cabinet so that the users can have quick access to a lot of rendering horsepower without having to see or hear it.

rtxserver.thumb.JPG.9d054b76b66851cb89f4a7e875f71b76.JPG

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AMD's 32-core Threadripper dares Intel to match it on cores and price

Whether it's 32 cores or 12 cores, it's all priced to kill Intel.

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3295003/components-processors/amd-2nd-gen-32-core-ryzen-threadripper-2-price-specs-features.html 

 

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3 hours ago, Carlosan said:


The 64 core 128 thread AMD Epyc server CPU is coming out in January 2019.  How long after that do we have to wait until they do some tweaks on it so they can sell it as a 64 core 128 thread  AMD  Threadripper?  

 

If their past strategy in the CPU market are any indication that would mean an AMD Threadripper with 64 cores and 128 threads by August 2020.

 

https://www.servethehome.com/amd-epyc-rome-details-trickle-out-64-cores-128-threads-per-socket/

 

The next generation of AMD EPYC 7000 series is shaping up to be a Xeon killer. The next-generation AMD EPYC 7000 series is codenamed “Rome” and it is going to be a big deal. Instead of adopting Zen+ like the desktop Ryzen CPUs, the new EPYC generation will use the Zen 2 architecture which means improved IPC gains from two generations of core tweaks. Beyond the IPC gains, the next generation parts will be based on 7nm production.

The impact of leapfrogging Intel and using 7nm is several-fold. First, Rome will have up to 64 cores and 128 threads in a single socket. (Edit June 6, 2018: Mea Culpa. Looks like we got some generational information “confirmed” to us incorrectly. Expect a 48 core / 96 thread generation before a 64 core / 128 thread generation. Still quite a huge gap. DDR4 and interconnect improvement information held up to further confirmations. 64 core / 128 thread apparently is still coming, just missed one generation due to a few words not being typed in messages to us.) The new CPUs will be socket compatible with the current SP3 socket motherboards with a small caveat. At STH, we expect Rome to adopt PCIe Gen 4 so motherboards will have to support the higher signaling rates to achieve PCIe Gen 4. We also expect the next generation to have greatly improved Infinity Fabric, an area that the first generation product has room to improve upon.

The other key disclosure is that AMD already has silicon in their labs with the next generation AMD EPYC Rome CPUs in their labs. They will be sampling to partners in the second half of 2018 and will launch in 2019.

This is going to put a lot of pressure on Intel Xeon as Cascade Lake is not going to come anywhere close to the core count of AMD EPYC’s next generation. Intel is scrambling to build a competitive response. 2019 is going to be extremely interesting in the server market.

 

 

Yeah, Intel is having some big problems mastering the 7nm process that AMD has mastered.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-cpu-10nm-earnings-amd,36967.html

As we pointed out earlier this year, the delay may seem a minor matter, but Intel has sold processors based on the underlying Skylake microarchitecture since 2015, and it's been stuck at the 14nm process since 2014. That means Intel is on the fourth (or fifth) iteration of the same process, which has hampered its ability to bring new microarchitectures to market. That doesn't bode well for a company that regularly claims its process node technology is three years ahead of its competitors.
 

https://www.pcgamesn.com/intel-amd-7nm-cpu-euv

 

But there may be another technology, with its own troubled history, that could finally be close to saving the day for this ageing law: Extreme Ultraviolet Lithography, or EUV.

EUV is a revolutionary new production process that will allow 7nm CPU production to offer higher yields, with lower complexity, and potentially lower costs too. It’s been the holy grail of chip manufacturers for years and is about to become a genuine reality.

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I think it would be smart money to wait until the 7nm chips come along. That should help AMD finally reach some serious clock levels. Right now, they don't have any that can comfortably reach 4.5Ghz, despite the high core count. I kind of like that 2950X, though. It seems to be pretty close to the 4.5 mark, with 16 cores/32 threads.

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5 hours ago, AbnRanger said:

I think it would be smart money to wait until the 7nm chips come along. That should help AMD finally reach some serious clock levels. Right now, they don't have any that can comfortably reach 4.5Ghz, despite the high core count. I kind of like that 2950X, though. It seems to be pretty close to the 4.5 mark, with 16 cores/32 threads.

The same motherboard that the 2950x uses will take the 64core 128 thread Threadripper or so AMD is saying so an upgrade in a year and a half to the 7nm would be available then.

 

I see what you mean on the price point...

 

amd.JPG.26509f538c42624d949e9f1372b58197.JPG

 

 

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On 8/18/2018 at 11:11 AM, AbnRanger said:

I think it would be smart money to wait until the 7nm chips come along. That should help AMD finally reach some serious clock levels. Right now, they don't have any that can comfortably reach 4.5Ghz, despite the high core count. I kind of like that 2950X, though. It seems to be pretty close to the 4.5 mark, with 16 cores/32 threads.

https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-threadripper-2950x-16-core-cpu-899-usd-launch/

 

Black Friday and Cyber Monday aren't that far away now.

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https://wccftech.com/review/gigabyte-x399-aorus-xtreme-motherboard-review/

 

AMD-Ryzen-Threadripper-2000_6-1030x579.thumb.jpg.d3150467bc8e09f5dc4a8465623d9b42.jpg

12 nm LP process technology 
– 1st generation Ryzen and 1st generation Threadripper were manufactured using 14L LPP (Low Power Plus) process technology of GLOBALFOUNDRIES, whereas 2nd generation Ryzen Threadripper based on Zen + microarchitecture was manufactured by GLOBALFOUNDRIES 12 nm LP (Leading Performance) process technology adopted. If the same power consumption is higher than the first generation Threadripper, AMD is appealing that it can realize lower power consumption than the first generation Threadripper for the same clock.


Precision Boost 2 
– The automatic clock-up technology “Precision Boost” adopted by the 1st generation Ryzen and the 1st generation Threadripper had the operation clock determined by the number of loaded cores, but this time the CPU voltage, current, core It has been redesigned to detect the temperature and select an appropriate operation clock. As a result, regardless of the number of cores under load, clock up according to the situation.


XFR 2 (Extended Frequency Range 2) 
~ “If the CPU temperature condition permits,” XFR “to operate with a higher clock beyond the maximum clock of Precision Boost becomes the 2nd generation, and as with Precision Boost 2, the number of cores is restricted lost. Depending on the performance of the CPU cooling system, the performance will improve up to 7%


Reduction of access delay of cache and main memory

– Access delay to cache and main memory is smaller for first-generation Threadripper. Up to 13% improvement in L1, up to 34% in L2, up to 16% in L3, up to 11% in main memory, resulting in a 3% increase in instruction execution count (IPC, Instruction per Clock) per clock It is said thatDSC_0698-Custom-1030x687.thumb.jpg.0f982d0faad4037ad14eeec6cd4425cd.jpg

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https://wccftech.com/amd-epyc-rome-7nm-64-core-cpu-performance-benchmark-leak/

 

Alleged AMD EPYC ‘Rome’ 7nm Based 64 Core Processor Performance Leaks Out – Scores an Incredible 12,500 Points in Cinebench Multi-Tasking Benchmark

 

The chip was tested in Cinebench R15 multi-thread benchmark and the chip scores an astonishing 12,587 points which are beyond anything current-generation processors can achieve. AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2990WX scores around 5500 points in the same benchmark with 32 cores and 64 threads. The score we are looking at in the leaks shows more than twice the performance of the flagship Threadripper SKU. There’s also the EPYC 7601 SKU which scores around 6000 points that is due to the octa-channel memory support compared to the quad channel on the Threadripper CPUs.

AMD-EPYC-Server.thumb.jpg.c0dd62be281e9e09693acfc0ce84927a.jpg

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Judging by early reports/rumours on engineering samples apparently the Zen 2 3700x is going to be hitting speeds of 4.5 ghz or higher.  I'm looking forward to that.  I held off on the 2700x because AMD has a pretty strong release schedule and I knew the Zen 2 stuff was coming relatively quick on the heels of 2nd gen.  Currently I'm running a 1700 so it should be an interesting upgrade if I go for it.

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On 10/5/2018 at 8:39 AM, Falconius said:

Judging by early reports/rumours on engineering samples apparently the Zen 2 3700x is going to be hitting speeds of 4.5 ghz or higher.  I'm looking forward to that.  I held off on the 2700x because AMD has a pretty strong release schedule and I knew the Zen 2 stuff was coming relatively quick on the heels of 2nd gen.  Currently I'm running a 1700 so it should be an interesting upgrade if I go for it.

Yeah. I upgraded from a 1700X to a 2700X. I couldn't get more than 3.9 on the 1700X, and often had to run it 3.8 to keep it as stable as possible. The 2700X has been quite a bit better, 4.1 is no problem. It will even overclock on it's own, to around 4Ghz, if I leave the clock speed at factory (auto) settings. I had been thinking about moving up to the 2950X which is basically  two 2700X's. Probably will wait until the 7nm chips are on the market, full on.

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There are some new rumors regarding the upcoming Zen2 CPUs that I thought you guys might be interested in. Seems the combination of 7nm and chiplets may have been enough to allow AMD to double Ryzens core count compared to Intels similarly prices CPUs again (like with the first Ryzen), as well as being able to reach 5ghz+ on their higher end SKUs. Some of it sounds almost too good to be true, but the video I linked below is for a guys whose predictions and analysis are generally quite accurate. Either way, we'll probably find out in about a month whether they're true or not (during CES).

 

 

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2 hours ago, PolyHertz said:

There are some new rumors regarding the upcoming Zen2 CPUs that I thought you guys might be interested in. Seems the combination of 7nm and chiplets may have been enough to allow AMD to double Ryzens core count compared to Intels similarly prices CPUs again (like with the first Ryzen), as well as being able to reach 5ghz+ on their higher end SKUs. Some of it sounds almost too good to be true, but the video I linked below is for a guys whose predictions and analysis are generally quite accurate. Either way, we'll probably find out in about a month whether they're true or not (during CES).

 

 

Yeah, if Intel is able to get their CPU's to OC to 5Ghz on their 14nm chips, I don't see it being that tough to do for AMD on 7nm processors. Looks very promising. 16cores at 5Ghz would be amazing.

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The thing that's blowing my mind isn't just that you'll be able to get 16/32 cores/threads at 5.1ghz but that the prices are so damn cheap. Intel would rape your wallet brutally if they could offer those specs on a CPU without competition. With the rapid fall in SSD prices and cheap high quality X399 motherboards, the only fly in the ointment is this annoying GPU problem holding things up. Buy a cheap hot noisy RADEON with crappy drivers or pay an arm and a leg for a new NVIDIA GPU that's going to turn into a brick on you the day after the warranty elapses?

 

By the way I've a related question for all you Radeon owners out there; as someone who really doesn't care that much about gaming ( I do game a bit but it's sort of spiritually empty I find) I'm more concerned about how they work out for both interactive vs final production renders.  I've heard AMD cards are actually better than NVidia cards in this department. 

 

Is this the way to go? I mean 16 GB of HBM VRAM....

https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Radeon-Frontier-Liquid-Retail/dp/B072XLR2K7

"Fantastic card! Using it for 3D modeling and rendering in Maya, Max and other CAD software. Performance is astounding! Big step up from the Quadro 4000. Handles hundreds of thousands of object with tens of millions of polys without a sweat in Maya. Great features for Pro users like 10 bit color, 4 monitor ports, 16GB VRAM, Pro app settings via the pro drivers etc... "
 

IMG_4730.jpg.9a9fd40e422e9bcea994ada6c8226ff7.jpg

 

https://blog.maxwellrender.com/news/maxwell-4-gpu-frequently-asked-questions/

This is a pretty good article on all the considerations for GPU vs CPU rendering. Is it even worth worrying about a Provisional Render on a GPU if you've got a 32 or 64 thread CPU that can handle ray tracing, SSS, caustics more comprehensively and faster?maxwell.thumb.jpg.c589130110f6d2e34dd551d4ae4750d7.jpg

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So just an update on my new Ryzen 2700x cpu\mobo I purchased last Black Friday.. I absolutely love the thing, a real workhorse.

First thing I did was to fire up 3D Coat, Blender and ZBrush.. All pretty much used every core available. Blender and ZB had a more even spread of the workload.

3DC also used up all the cores but the difference was that it also maxed out one of them.. User experience wise, definite improvement over my previous setup.

Something to note, when I installed Windows 10 I used an old ISO I had lying around and that ended up causing me issues \ long install times \ freezes.. After an hour+ in of installing Win10 updates and a few freezes, I just canceled everything and reformatted.. I ended up using the Windows media creator from MS to create a more recent build of Windows. It created a v1803 build of Windows.. Once I had that, it was probably one of the fastest Windows install I've ever done, under 8-10 mins and I was up and running with all drivers found. I updated with vendor specific drivers and then everything was solid.. I've had zero instability \ freezes \ crashes since Black Friday and have been running the rig non stop.. Overall I'm really impressed with it, would definitely buy again (hey it's half the price of Intel equiv).. Feel free to ask questions or run a specific task to get numbers..

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19 minutes ago, L'Ancien Regime said:

Which specific motherboard did you get?

What GPU are you using with that?

Sure thing... For the motherboard I bought the GIGABYTE X470 AORUS Ultra ($150Cdn BF deal). It was either that one or the ASUS PRIME X470-PRO.. Had my eye on both so when Black Friday came, price and availability was the driver for the purchase.

Ram I bought the G.Skil 3200 \ DDR4 16GB. The motherboard picked up the XMP memory profile right away and maxed the frequency at 3200.

For the GPU, I already had a decent one so I did not replace it. I'm running a Geforce GTX 1070 STRIX edition,  bought this one before all the bitcoin madness for $424 Cdn. After extensive reading on the 20xx series and all following the post you guys did, I thought it best to skip it.. RTX is just not mature enough to benefit from it and the new cards failure rates raised a red flag.

 

 

Edited by Nossgrr
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20 minutes ago, L'Ancien Regime said:

Thanks. Good to hear that your new rig is up and running; I'm without a viable modeling/texturing computer right now and I'm just waiting on the release of those AMD Radeon 3080's...

It totally sucks not being able to work in 3d coat etc. as you can well imagine.

That brings up an interesting question, would you be able to live without Cuda? Not only in 3DC but other apps as well? I'm going to take a long hard look at AMD's GPU offering but at the same time have to weight in if Cuda is still a big factor enough to stay with NVidia.. 

AMD has stated that they're going to skip RT-Raytracing for Navi, take a more of a wait and see approach.. Which means Navi could be very attractive price wise.. 

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On 12/10/2018 at 1:53 PM, Nossgrr said:

That brings up an interesting question, would you be able to live without Cuda? Not only in 3DC but other apps as well? I'm going to take a long hard look at AMD's GPU offering but at the same time have to weight in if Cuda is still a big factor enough to stay with NVidia.. 

AMD has stated that they're going to skip RT-Raytracing for Navi, take a more of a wait and see approach.. Which means Navi could be very attractive price wise.. 

Good question. Back years ago here I was pretty obsessed with CUDA but after much questioning around here the verdict was that while implemented it wasn't being updated and that Andrew didn't feel it was really that worthwhile for the performance it gave.

 

Now I  may be wrong on this, and the real experts here may come and give me a good slap for spreading misinformation but that's my own recollection (from a conversation years ago).

 

If the NAVI comes out soon enough and really is the equivalent of a RTX 2070 for half the price I am so there. Final rendering is best done by CPU's period.

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