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[Solved] Smart Materials using both Displacement AND Normal texture maps


Shift Studio
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In many purchased / downloaded texture sets, both displacement maps and normal maps are included, and the smart material doesn't look right if one of the two isn't used.

Unfortunately, I'm new to building smart materials and can't figure out how to do it. The best I've come up with is making first layer with displacement map, and another layer with only one channel, plugging in the normal map. For the 2nd layer described, I increased its intensity to 200% and lowered its opacity to 20%. Thats not right and doesn't look too great either.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

--Shift Studio.

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Thanks Carlosan.

I had watched those videos just yesterday looking for an answer to my question.

I did learn a thing or two. Specifically I had never noticed the feature/option 'View/Show Displaced Mesh'. Its definitely a step in the direction I want.

But ... unfortunately, I still don't know how to use a displacement map and a normal map together in the same smart material. Is it clear what I'm after?

Thanks for any further insights.

--shift studio.

Edited by Shift Studio
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5 hours ago, Carlosan said:

What if you add a new layer in the same smart material ?

 

 

@Carlosan. 

Right - thats exactly what I tried to do (see first post). The problem is, the material only gets height from one of the layers (the one on top in the material editor). The only way around it that I have found is to lower the opacity of the top layer. Unfortunately that makes neither layer's height full strength. Is there a way to get height from both texture maps? Here is a link to one of the materials I've been testing with >> https://freepbr.com/materials/worn-out-old-brick-wall-pbr-material/

Any ideas?

Thanks for sharing your time and knowledge!

--shift studio.

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Thanks Carlosan and Tony.

I'm finding I can do an okay (not great) job mixing the two height maps using opacity.

Would you guys agree that there should be some options for blending the layers of a smart material (other than masks or conditions)?

-- Shift Studio.

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What you are asking for is a separate channel to have a detail normal or displacement map for blending inside the same Smart Material layer. Like in Unreal or Unity where you can add a detail normal map. Yes it is not possible atm.

FYI. Smart Material depth works best with Black and White images (grayscale) not normal maps.

1. First I inverted the green channel in the normal map for my workflow otherwise the mortar would be extruding.

2. Next, created a displacement map from the normal map. This is for the finer details.

3. Used  Photoshop to blend the regular displacement map with the displacement map created from the normal map. I now have a displacement map with details too. 

Last would be to add all the conditional maps for grunge in the Smart Material.

I used show displace mesh in PPP mode.

45.PNG

Edited by digman
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19 minutes ago, digman said:

What you are asking for is a separate channel to have a detail normal or displacement map for blending inside the Smart Material. Like in Unreal or Unity where you can add a detail normal map. Yes it is not possible atm.

FYI. Smart Material depth works best with Black and White images (grayscale) not normal maps.

1. First I inverted the green channel in the normal map for my workflow otherwise the mortar would be extruding.

2. Next, created a displacement map from the normal map. This is for the finer details.

3. Used  Photoshop to blend the regular displacement map with the displacement map created from the normal map. I now have a displacement map with details too. 

Last would be to add all the conditional maps for grunge in the Smart Material.

I used show displace mesh in PPP mode.

45.PNG

Excellent Digman - thanks!

I did not know the FYI (I fumble in 3D Coat as I don't use it much.) - but I guess it makes sense.

Where did you do step #2?

For step 3 - what blending mode in Photoshop ('overlay' or similar I guess??)?

Thanks, Shift Studio.

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Step #2, I used PixPlant... Plus it has tools for working on the displacement map, I did tweak it a little to make it better. There are several programs out for converting normal to displacement.

Step #3, Softlight seem to work best.

Edited by digman
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On 3/30/2018 at 1:32 PM, Shift Studio said:

@Carlosan. 

Right - thats exactly what I tried to do (see first post). The problem is, the material only gets height from one of the layers (the one on top in the material editor). The only way around it that I have found is to lower the opacity of the top layer. Unfortunately that makes neither layer's height full strength. Is there a way to get height from both texture maps? Here is a link to one of the materials I've been testing with >> https://freepbr.com/materials/worn-out-old-brick-wall-pbr-material/

Any ideas?

Thanks for sharing your time and knowledge!

--shift studio.

Did you ever resolve your issue? I'm thinking it's better to rely on the heightmap/depth  for creating depth because that's what it' meant for. Try this, create a new layer in the  same smart material specifically for the normal map but make the depth to 0 on that layer, roughness 50%, metal 0, add your normal map and push that layer to the bottom. Set the same layer's  degree option to "more on picked".  Change the opacity of the layer to increase or decrease bumpiness.

Hopefully this is the solution you're looking for.. I've never used the normal map with my displacement because I was told I didn't need to :wacko: but when I look at the result it does make a difference! You can get more details with the displacement map setting as well without the normal map but that's best suited for higher resolutions. This was just a quick test and wanted to try the impossible ;) but I don't really know if this is what you wanted. You might want to re-add the color texture to go with the normal map.

image.thumb.png.4ae94c755bd19aaf2d0700e72c659b89.png

 

So the trick is on me, i forgot I had a displacement texture in the mask area but inverting it came out with the  extra detail and better overall displacement form.

Considering that your after more detail you could also try inverting the displacement on the mask and setting the contrast to 100%

image.thumb.png.914f6def8b3eeea42cedb3dcad8a58b9.png

Edited by Ascensi
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The Depth channel icon in Smart Materials may look like it's for a Normal Map, but it's not. It's strictly for greyscale Displacement/Height maps. I talked with Andrew about this, and I think his reply was that he would try to convert any normal maps added to the channel, to a displacement map. 

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@Ascensi Thanks for this response. I haven't tried it yet - its definitely a solution I wouldn't have thought of. I've never used 'more on picked'. That applies a more on the condition you are painting over a selected colour - correct? I'll give it a try and reply.

@AbnRanger Thanks for your response too. This is what I've come to understand as well. Do you mean Andrew is going to add functionality that will convert normal maps to displacement, or that he suggests the user should do that in other software? I've had limited success with this using macOS software.

Thanks!

--shift studio.

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  • Carlosan changed the title to [Solved] Smart Materials using both Displacement AND Normal texture maps

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