Jump to content
3DCoat Forums

Users, @Andrew Shpagin and developers of 3D-Coat .... Being sincere ... What do you think?


Rygaard
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Advanced Member
On 4/20/2018 at 3:44 PM, digman said:

This thread has been a good discussion so here are some features in the works for version 5.  

I ask Andrew if I could share these specific 3 areas. He gave me permission to do so. 

1. Sculpt Layers.  

2. GPU enabled Painting. Faster and more memory efficient. 

3. Sketched Based Retopoing. 

Of course everyone will want to know when version 5 will be released. I do not have that information. We generally though get new betas as the become available to test these features before the official release of version 5. I also do not have any information on when betas with these features will be available.

+1 for sketched based retopoing

Other features won't change a lot for me.

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Contributor
9 minutes ago, AbnRanger said:

Better get your videos ready. Andrew has already started working on Sculpt Layers.

https://twitter.com/AndrewShpagin

"Started to work over sculpt layers! Already works to some degree. Experimenting with keeping layers even after topology changes (say, LC)."

My friends, sorry for my absence here in the forum!

I was able to finish my Sculpt Layers suggestion VIDEO now!

I tried so hard to leave at a level our community tall!


I'm not making excuses, but I've never made a video of these previously and even more so without being in my language!
I count on everyone's understanding and my biggest goal is to help!

Now I'd like to ask for help in posting the video!

Since I never did that, where do I post this video?
I would like to post here on the topic and on youtube channel ...
Can you help me what would be the best strategy?

thank you all!!!
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Contributor
41 minutes ago, AbnRanger said:

Upload to Youtube and past the link here, in your post.

I'll set youtube channel and I'll post the video!
Please, a little patience! :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Contributor

Finally, as I promised, I would like to share with all of the community, all my effort to help in the development of 3D-Coat!
I had to learn how to use video and audio editing programs, as well as a program to demonstrate the layout and features of possible Sculpt Layers in 3D-Coat!
I had never done anything like this before!
I hope you like my suggestions and that all of you are willing to help further in creating new ideas and to further mature the Sculpt Layers being developed by Andrew.
Please, @Andrew Shpagin and everyone in the community, I expressed my opinions in a constructive way and I hope I do not get misunderstood.
I congratulate Andrew and the developers of 3D-Coat for this amazing program that has been developed!
Stay free if you want to take advantage of any suggestions or ideas presented in the video. Thank you...

 

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Reputable Contributor
1 hour ago, Rygaard said:

Finally, as I promised, I would like to share with all of the community, all my effort to help in the development of 3D-Coat!
I had to learn how to use video and audio editing programs, as well as a program to demonstrate the layout and features of possible Sculpt Layers in 3D-Coat!
I had never done anything like this before!
I hope you like my suggestions and that all of you are willing to help further in creating new ideas and to further mature the Sculpt Layers being developed by Andrew.
Please, @Andrew Shpagin and everyone in the community, I expressed my opinions in a constructive way and I hope I do not get misunderstood.
I congratulate Andrew and the developers of 3D-Coat for this amazing program that has been developed!
Stay free if you want to take advantage of any suggestions or ideas presented in the video. Thank you...

 

Wow. That's a lot of work you put into that video. As I told Andrew, the lack of Sculpt layers is pretty much like having to work in Photoshop, constrained by only layer per file. Sure, you could split a project up into multiple parts (files), but it would be much less efficient and still more destructive than working Layers.

He needs to take his time and think this through as best as he can. This is a good chance to win a lot of ZB and MB converts, so make it count.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Contributor
32 minutes ago, AbnRanger said:

Wow. That's a lot of work you put into that video. As I told Andrew, the lack of Sculpt layers is pretty much like having to work in Photoshop, constrained by only layer per file. Sure, you could split a project up into multiple parts (files), but it would be much less efficient and still more destructive than working Layers.

He needs to take his time and think this through as best as he can. This is a good chance to win a lot of ZB and MB converts, so make it count. 

Yes, a lot of work! I know the video was a bit long, but I needed to explain the reasons for Sculpt Layers earlier, then introduce the Layout and briefly explain each feature. I know that in explaining each function it may have been a bit tiresome for people, but honestly, I could not get away from it. After all, the video was meant to present the functions, right? :)

I believe that people can from my suggestions, have a concrete notion and thus help us to mature functions or even present new ideas and even better than I have had.

In my opinion, humbly, I believe that if this kind of Sculpt Layers that I presented and simulated existed in 3D-Coat, surely, without a doubt, many people using competing programs would migrate to 3d-Coat and would think that this system would be the best of all sculpture programs.

I'm not a programmer, but innocently, I think if Andrew cared for this video, he could develop something like it was suggested. Because virtually all functions already exist in 3D-Coat.

I find it fantastic how Paint Layers (Paint Room) works and all those functions, so I made it a point to "import" them for that suggested Sculpt Layers. And still implementing a more organized system of hierarchy between folders and layers (with filtering color tags). A better ease in the application and visualization of masks and all the other functionalities that I demonstrated.

I believe that we 3D-Coat users with such a non-destructive system would be a divisor of before and after ... it would be like we went into paradise! And creativity would have no limits!

I would make a video with new tools in the Sculpt Room that would also be used in Sculpt Layers, but I would give up doing because it would not be the right time. But if you will, then calmly, I will do for you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Contributor
6 hours ago, Falconius said:

Very well done video, and it does a great job at explaining the features you'd like to see.

Many thanks for your compliment! :)

You'd believe if I told you that I almost gave up making the video when I heard Andrew was going to make Sculpt Layers.
At that moment, I had thought that there was no sense in making a video requesting something that would be developed. In fact, I had already done almost half of the video.

Then I thought of doing it anyway and trying to suggest good things that already exist in 3D-Coat and some new features of how in my opinion Sculpt Layers could be in 3D-Coat to make our life easier on our projects.

Unfortunately, some things I could not simulate right ... :(

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Contributor

I know it's annoying to ask this type of thing for everyone here in the community, but I'd like to ask everyone who liked or agrees with something I did in the video to Thumbs Up and comment on the video on youtube and share the video in all the places, so the video can come to the attention of Andrew. :)

I would like to make it clear that I just made the video to help everyone in the community and I never exposed myself on youtube.

I hope I have helped in some way and who knows from this video more suggestions can happen, further improving what I have already done. And so, helping Andrew somehow.
 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Contributor
23 minutes ago, Carlosan said:

@Rygaard: please send this feature requests video to Andrew Shpagin at

support@3dcoat.com

and remember to post on our G+ community too.

I confess that I have never used G + before ... I asked for permission to participate in the G + community ... and as soon as it is accepted, I will post the video there.

I'll send the video to support too!

Thank you very much

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Contributor

Hey everyone ...

I made another video in which I explain and suggest an improvement in the hierarchy system in Sculpt Layers.

This time, I'll simulate and suggest that when we users move the folders / layers through the hierarchy, two important things would happen with visual cues.

I would like to say that nothing I'm doing is an obligation or pressure to @Andrew Shpagin and developers of 3D-Coat! Just, I'm trying to help suggesting ideas.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Reputable Contributor

I think Andrew will probably implement something in the VoxTree Panel that has collapsing/expanding Subtree for Sculpt Layers, because that is pretty much how it is already structured.  Andrew said it's working pretty well even with LiveClay changes and other changes such as using the Cutoff tool. If done right, this could be....

tenor.gif

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Contributor
46 minutes ago, AbnRanger said:

I think Andrew will probably implement something in the VoxTree Panel that has collapsing/expanding Subtree for Sculpt Layers, because that is pretty much how it is already structured.  Andrew said it's working pretty well even with LiveClay changes and other changes such as using the Cutoff tool. If done right, this could be....

HUGEEEEE ..... :)

How great to know that! Thanks so much for sharing Andrew's progress on Sculpt Layers! Congratulations to Andrew and the developers of 3D-Coat!

From what you said, once again, 3D-Coat will be pioneering a giant functionality such as the use of dynamic tessellation inside a layer (live clay) and for sure is to stay insane you can use cuttoff tool! 8P

If you can actually use live clay on sculpt layers, can we use the Brush removal option as well? That would be perfect, would not it?:yahoo:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Reputable Contributor
35 minutes ago, Rygaard said:

HUGEEEEE ..... :)

How great to know that! Thanks so much for sharing Andrew's progress on Sculpt Layers! Congratulations to Andrew and the developers of 3D-Coat!

From what you said, once again, 3D-Coat will be pioneering a giant functionality such as the use of dynamic tessellation inside a layer (live clay) and for sure is to stay insane you can use cuttoff tool! 8P

If you can actually use live clay on sculpt layers, can we use the Brush removal option as well? That would be perfect, would not it?:yahoo:

I don't know, yet. As he let's us know more, I will ask him about that. In some of the video links I sent him (for ZB and MB as reference material), it shows clip masking and layer height adjustment. It works like this in the Paint Room already, so I'm sure he knows it's needed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Contributor
27 minutes ago, AbnRanger said:

I don't know, yet. As he let's us know more, I will ask him about that. In some of the video links I sent him (for ZB and MB as reference material), it shows clip masking and layer height adjustment. It works like this in the Paint Room already, so I'm sure he knows it's needed.

I believe that Sculpt Layers that Andrew is developing, without any doubt, it will become one of the best Sculpt Layers.

I'm amazed at all the functions that happen in Paint Layers, if Andrew transfers most of the features of Paint Layers to Sculpt Layers, of course, everything will change! A real paradise!

Have you ever imagined having the eraser tool on Sculpt Layers? The same way it works in Paint Layers? I know it's a destructive process and you'd better use the masking system, but for many things it would be great to have the tool eraser.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Reputable Contributor
12 hours ago, Rygaard said:

I believe that Sculpt Layers that Andrew is developing, without any doubt, it will become one of the best Sculpt Layers.

I'm amazed at all the functions that happen in Paint Layers, if Andrew transfers most of the features of Paint Layers to Sculpt Layers, of course, everything will change! A real paradise!

Have you ever imagined having the eraser tool on Sculpt Layers? The same way it works in Paint Layers? I know it's a destructive process and you'd better use the masking system, but for many things it would be great to have the tool eraser.

He said he will try to add erase and something similar to the Magnification/Reduction brush in the Paint Room.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Contributor
33 minutes ago, AbnRanger said:

He said he will try to add erase and something similar to the Magnification/Reduction brush in the Paint Room.

That's all I'd like to hear! This is perfect! :)

Tools that already exist in Paint Layers that could be added in the Sculpt room and that would be used in Sculpt Layers or not:

1- Erase Tool
This tool would be extremely important in conjunction with Sculpt Layers.
The user could partially or completely erase any change made to the surface of the mesh within the created Layer, with full control through the different Stroke Modes of the brush, using any alpha and defining the intensity of the erase. It is a most valuable destructive tool! Even though I knew I could use the masking system on the layer, but it could be used together!

2- Height Adjustment Tool (magnification and reduction) with Degree of Change.
Very useful tool in total control of the intensity of details or part carved in the negative or positive way on the surface of the mesh.
Where, through a brush, the user can, if desired, completely remove what has been done or further intensify a detail that already exists on the surface of the mesh (This is very very very important).
The interesting thing is that this brush is sensitive to the alpha of the chosen brush and still appears to be a non-destructive system.

Some tools related to the copying or cloning of the mesh surface:
1- Clone Tool:
Types = Translation, Mirroring, Inversion, Clone Sector, Symmetrical Copy, Copy using Brush.
The Clone tool may seem like a simple tool or not have much importance in the work of some people when manipulating a texture.
But, I think, this very powerful tool in whatever is the goal of an artist's work.
The clone tool has several ways to perform clones, copies and provide unique effects from a detail already made on the surface of the mesh.
The artist could perform the cloning / copying of a detail on the surface in a controlled manner, by using the type of cloning spoken above and with the alpha sensitivity of the brush. With this, the artist would have a great power in his hands, even in the generation of unimaginable effects.

2- Transform / Copy Tool:
This tool is similar to the Clone Tool, but it is unique and sensational when it comes to how to apply a copy of a detail already existing elsewhere on the mesh surface.
This tool will make the artist have the power to completely control the translation and scale (uniformly or not) of the surface copy made by different types of Stroke Mode Lasso, and thus adapting the copy to the different surface of the mesh.

3- Copy / Paste Tool:
This copy tool is very powerful and effective. The artist can copy a detail of the mesh surface through the Brush.
This brush would be sensitive to the alpha chosen by the user, the size of the copy would be related to the size of the brush and its intensity according to the depth of the brush. Like this, the tool would accept the options of the brush, like Rotation Amplitude, Radius Variation, Depth Variation, Jitter Position and etc.


Spline Image Tool
This tool could be very useful in Sculpt Room for the same purpose that this tool has in Paint Room. Users could define an image (texture) to be applied through the Spline (with preview). We would have the same tool options as Number of Tiles, Falloff, extrusion, ignore back faces, closed curve, depth moderator and so on.

-----------------

New Tools:

- Snapshot tool:
This tool aims to create a snapshot of the visible surface of the mesh (regardless of the use of layers or not). This snapshot would be stored in the tool memory. This tool would be used through the brush and also by a slide that varies from 0 to 100% between the state of the capture surface and the surface altered after of the capture.
It has the function of making the metamorphosis between the state of the captured surface and the mesh carved afterwards.
The user could easily control any change in the surface of the mesh in a non-destructive way and could also help to correct a wrong posture in the pose of a character, for example between a stretched and folded arm. Thus, the user through the morpth slide could identify any type of problem related to the stretching or compression of the mesh.
Another interesting thing that this tool would provide the user would be to place a certain state of the captured mesh within a new layer created in the Layers system, thus allowing greater freedom and creation control.
When the user used the brush morpth it would be very similar to the mask system in Sculpt Layers.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Contributor
On 5/11/2018 at 4:54 PM, Rygaard said:

- Snapshot tool:
This tool aims to create a snapshot of the visible surface of the mesh (regardless of the use of layers or not). This snapshot would be stored in the tool memory. This tool would be used through the brush and also by a slide that varies from 0 to 100% between the state of the capture surface and the surface altered after of the capture.
It has the function of making the metamorphosis between the state of the captured surface and the mesh carved afterwards.
The user could easily control any change in the surface of the mesh in a non-destructive way and could also help to correct a wrong posture in the pose of a character, for example between a stretched and folded arm. Thus, the user through the morpth slide could identify any type of problem related to the stretching or compression of the mesh.
Another interesting thing that this tool would provide the user would be to place a certain state of the captured mesh within a new layer created in the Layers system, thus allowing greater freedom and creation control.
When the user used the brush morpth it would be very similar to the mask system in Sculpt Layers. 

I think this "Snapshot Tool" could help us a lot in our projects.
The most interesting would be if it could work in conjunction with Sculpt Layers.
Another positive thing about this tool is that it would also be a kind of non-destructive tool. :)

What do you think about this new tool I suggested?
Could it be part of your workflow?
And ... would you have suggestions for this tool?
Any ideas to further improve this possible tool?
Thanks for the interest and to help improve a possible idea that would help us a lot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • Contributor

Hey everyone!  :)
I was posing my character and for this I used the proxy in an average resolution of polygons so that I could use the pose tool to perform the pose of my character. Of course, we got to pose the character that way I just talked, but it's very laborious.
We have to be selecting (sometimes perfecting the line selection and painting the area), setting the pivot of rotation or translation in the correct position to then perform the rotation or translation. Then, go to another part of the character to perform all this operation again. If you need to further change the pose, redo the selection or load the selection you saved at that time (if you remembered to save this selection you were using) ... I even tired of saying all this! :(

What I would suggest, would be something that would make our life much easier! I would suggest a system of bones (rigging). Something similar to what happens in Blender being that inside the 3d-coat. Where we would have the possibility to create the bones or have different structures of pre-made skeletons (humanoid, animals and etc) to insert in our characters or objects and then automatically generate the skinning in the character, with the possibility of perfecting the weight manually painting.

If Andrew and developers of 3D-Coat could not develop something I mentioned above, I thought of another alternative as a tool similar to the Curves tool, and this tool aimed at rigging and skinning, where we could put curves inside a character or objects and configure the weight in some way (painting and / or automatic mode) so that we can pose characters or other objects quickly and effectively inside the 3d-Coat.

I think it would be an interesting and necessary tool for those who create characters, animals, robots and etc ...
It would help a lot in 3D printing, presentation of projects and etc.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
16 hours ago, Rygaard said:

What I would suggest, would be something that would make our life much easier! I would suggest a system of bones (rigging). ...

It would be nice.  Just to be sure you know about it, you can 'cut' your model up like the middle man on the bottom row when you create a new voxel project.  Step through that model using the transform tool.  That is more powerful than ZBrush's approach in some ways, and has allowed me to start posing while creating, which is something you can't really do with ZBrush from what I've seen.

You can take it further than that example model, because you can make mirrored 'instances' instead of clones, and you won't have additional objects taking up all the memory that they do.  Those 'instances' can be posed in relation to their instance parent.  Totally cool!

The only drawback to this approach is that after you have the pose you want, and merge everything, you have to manually clean up each joint a bit.  But the posing flexibility is awesome, and for my purposes, beats ZBrush hands down.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Contributor
29 minutes ago, David O'Neil said:

It would be nice.  Just to be sure you know about it, you can 'cut' your model up like the middle man on the bottom row when you create a new voxel project.  Step through that model using the transform tool.  That is more powerful than ZBrush's approach in some ways, and has allowed me to start posing while creating, which is something you can't really do with ZBrush from what I've seen.

You can take it further than that example model, because you can make mirrored 'instances' instead of clones, and you won't have additional objects taking up all the memory that they do.  Those 'instances' can be posed in relation to their instance parent.  Totally cool!

The only drawback to this approach is that after you have the pose you want, and merge everything, you have to manually clean up each joint a bit.  But the posing flexibility is awesome, and for my purposes, beats ZBrush hands down.

You're correct, you still have this technique as you described that is excellent and even more in conjunction with the use of instances. Powerful tool!
Zb does not have this kind of method yet, but soon, we will see these features in a future version of ZB.

Even with this method you described, which I also like, unfortunately, has its positive and negative side.
Honestly, filling in the gaps left by the rotation for me is not a big problem. The problem is that not everyone will start a project with the "middle man".

I think we would have a lot more advantages if we had a rigging system as I described in my suggestion as it is more versatile and flexible for whatever type of project you are developing (creating the mesh from the beginning in Voxel / Surface mode or a ready-made base mesh with the characteristics of your project) and you would have a much more refined control with this rigging / skinning system.

Maybe if this Rigging system could somehow use instances (as you said above) it would be very powerful!

Just imagine what we could do with such a system! :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Reputable Contributor

I agree that some sort of basic bones...IK/FK..system would be great to have, for posing, but there is already so much on Andrew's plate, I don't know that adding more and more to it, is a good idea, right now. The Pose Tool does work pretty well for this purpose, currently, so I would rather other areas get the attention we have been waiting years for. The New Curves (I'm going to try and push for a dedicated BEVEL tool, with a thumbnail group of bevel profiles) is a major undertaking, as is Sculpt Layers, and new Retopo Sketching tools.

Let's let the poor man come up for some air.  :D 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Contributor
49 minutes ago, AbnRanger said:

I agree that some sort of basic bones...IK/FK..system would be great to have, for posing, but there is already so much on Andrew's plate, I don't know that adding more and more to it, is a good idea, right now. The Pose Tool does work pretty well for this purpose, currently, so I would rather other areas get the attention we have been waiting years for. The New Curves (I'm going to try and push for a dedicated BEVEL tool, with a thumbnail group of bevel profiles) is a major undertaking, as is Sculpt Layers, and new Retopo Sketching tools.

Let's let the poor man come up for some air.  :D 

Sure enough, we have to leave Andrew with full priority for Sculpt Layers and the other features! Many years waiting for these great features!  :)

Lots of air for Andrew !!! :D
My God!
And I suggesting several things!

But it's only good intention!
:):):) Just to register this little suggestion to make us daydreaming! ;)

I could not resist suggesting the Rigging / Skinning system! :yahoo:
Who knows someday Andrew will have a loving look at that suggestion! :wub:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Even with all on his plate I do have a couple of minor suggestions.  Both to do with the Spacebar brush menu.  The first being that I often end up dragging brushes out of the top dock accidentally, maybe if the functionality was changed so that to drag brushes out of the dock it was ctrl or alt + click.  The second much more minor one is that sometimes I get stuck for a bit looking for the odd brush I want, if there was a way to narrow down the brushes al-la zbrush typing in the first letters it might prove helpful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Contributor
10 hours ago, Falconius said:

Even with all on his plate I do have a couple of minor suggestions.  Both to do with the Spacebar brush menu.  The first being that I often end up dragging brushes out of the top dock accidentally, maybe if the functionality was changed so that to drag brushes out of the dock it was ctrl or alt + click.  The second much more minor one is that sometimes I get stuck for a bit looking for the odd brush I want, if there was a way to narrow down the brushes al-la zbrush typing in the first letters it might prove helpful.

I understand what you're talking about. ;)Maybe Andrew could see your suggestions. Maybe, if you could email him ...

I know you would not want to hear something like that, but at the moment, you could not create shortcuts for your main brushes and access them that way?
Would not that be a small solution?

I use shortcuts for my top brushes and that way I work fast. I also put in the quick access (space bar) brushes that I do not use so often... not to get them looking at the menu with so many brushes. I think doing these 2 things can be a momentary solution until Andrew can see what he can do about these things.

Some time ago, on this same topic, I had suggested some customizations.

1- User's custom menu: In it we could put all the tools and functionalities that we wanted that exists in 3D-Coat. And as soon as a tool is inserted in this customized user menu, it would automatically create a corresponding graphic button with its function and the name of the tool next to it (with the user's option to take the tool name if it wishes). This menu would accept access by shortcut key.

2- 3D-Coat could accept that we could drag tools and features to any part of the 3D-Coat screen. Where the user could customize what tools and features he could access quickly on the 3D-Coat's own screen.

There are more suggestions I could say about it, but I will limit myself to those 2 that I believe would be the main ones, as it would facilitate and increase the speed of our work within 3D-Coat.

I know Andrew is doing very important things at the moment for us! Of which we have waited many years to have.
I'm just posting here these suggestions that, in my opinion, would make our work so much better and besides, 3D-Coat would be much more powerful!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

I should use shortcuts more but the space bar menu is just so easy, and I don't have to move my hand away from its usual 'wsad' hover point. :)  Also I haven't hit my stride with what brushes I prefer exactly, still working out my workflow I guess, so the topbar does actually change a bit.  Pose is a permanent feature as is scratches 2, but for instance I also have "reconstruct" in there, which can now be done away with because of that video showing the various smooth capabilities, and indeed I have "smooth" in there but it can also go because it's on shift anyways and I've never clicked on it in the top bar position.  You are right I should think about what I have in there a bit more carefully and its arrangement putting my top tools in 1-5 would be wiser than my current approach.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...