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Users, @Andrew Shpagin and developers of 3D-Coat .... Being sincere ... What do you think?

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20 hours ago, Spacetime said:

Not really. This is a repetitive feature for most people. Such works are better with Blender, Maya, 3ds Max or Cinema 4D.

3D Coat or ZBrush should primarily expand sculpting technologies. We do not need a jack of all trades device in one software.

I agree with your opinion!

@Falconius
I know ZModeler is an excellent system within Zbrush.
In 3D-Coat retopo / modeling is very good.
Of course, 3D-Coat will improve this area, but for the future ... We can use programs aimed at polygon modeling like Blender.
I use 3D-Coat and Blender through Simple3DCoat Applink which is almost instantaneously importing and exporting from one program to another.

At the moment, I think we need 3D-Coat to direct its development to the Sculpt Room.

I really liked your suggestions:
1) Live Booleans system.
Actually, that would help a lot in the process of sculpting without being destructive. We would have full control over Boolean operations!

2) Development of more brushes in Live Clays.
Without a doubt ... The more brushes the better!
 
3) More primitive meshes that allowed a greater degree of control over their creation characteristics.

I believe that 3D-Coat will improve more and more. We have to understand that 3D-Coat are several programs in one! To maintain quality and develop such a program is complicated! From the beginning, Zbrush only had focus on the area of sculpture and so it went ahead developing calmly the other functionalities.

 

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13 hours ago, AbnRanger said:

I think it would be a good idea to perhaps add all the standard surface mode brushes to that Surface Tools. This lets the user get the best of both worlds without have to switch out of voxel mode. It's pretty powerful, actually. I asked Andrew to move the Surface Tools section to just beneath the Voxel Brushes, that way they are more easily accessed and more logically positioned.

@AbnRanger

We already have, down below, in the Surface Tools session, the brushes: Draw, Pinch, Shift, Flatten, Clay and Rapid. Andrews would only have to add the rest of the standard Surface Brushes.  And if Andrews added the rest of the Surface Brushes to the Voxels, the Brushes palette would be tumultuous.

With this, I would like to suggest 2 things in the 3D-Coat interface:
First thing:
I really miss a custom User Palette / Window (can fit anywhere on the interface) so that we can select or drag the main tools we use most (it can be brushes and also any existing 3D-Coat tool) for this area and would greatly facilitate our work.

Second Thing:
I wish the Brushes Session (Surface and Voxel) would not be static on the left side of the interface. I wish it could be customized too! If it could not be customized, at least give us the chance to put it on the right side of the interface.

 

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21 hours ago, AbnRanger said:

.If you are finding a bug or bugs, make a list of them

You didn't understood about what i meaned.

I mean no voxels usage,

only use retopo primitives , and do extrudes and transforms to create your hard surface model.

Modeling that way there is many bugs and i doubt people are using retopo tools to do whole models in hard surface mode.

 

You loose too much time retopo hard surface models

While beeing able to model quickly in hard surface mode and voxelize it to add sculpt details is the faster way as you don't need to retopo.

 

Anyway, i don't think 3D coat will get some hard surface modeling room for example, there is Blender and Zbrush if you wish to mix scultping and traditional hard surface modeling.

 

I don't know what is the plan about next major updates ?

- animation 

- better decimation tool 

- better memory usage 

- tiled sculpting

- hard surface modeling

- fast 4K and 8K textures painting

At some point 3D coat should get a new room feature or some major functionality.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 4/13/2018 at 4:21 PM, Ratchet said:

You didn't understood about what i meaned.

I mean no voxels usage,

only use retopo primitives , and do extrudes and transforms to create your hard surface model.

Modeling that way there is many bugs and i doubt people are using retopo tools to do whole models in hard surface mode.

 

You loose too much time retopo hard surface models

While beeing able to model quickly in hard surface mode and voxelize it to add sculpt details is the faster way as you don't need to retopo.

 

Anyway, i don't think 3D coat will get some hard surface modeling room for example, there is Blender and Zbrush if you wish to mix scultping and traditional hard surface modeling.

Did you watch any of the videos I posted? Especially the one where I showed the "bugs" you referred to, where not happening....at least not on my end (Windows OS, 4.8.15), and I showed where IT WAS/IS NOT SLOW NOR CUMBERSOME TO EXTRUDE AND BEVEL ON THE FLY.

Here is another video covering the subject, that may be of some benefit, but not if you don't watch them.

 

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Well actually it is kind of cumbersome to extrude, at least for me (although even if 3d coat doesn't change a thing I've been learning a lot on this thread).  If I want to extrude something I have to choose the select tool, choose the faces I want to extrude, hit the extrude tool to open up the tool window, use the gizmo to extrude the faces and then if I want to extrude something else I have to hit escape to deselect, but that will actually only exit the tool so you have to hit escape again to deselect the faces, then go through the whole process again with the added step of hitting the "Commit extrusion" button on the extrusion tool panel (I'm not sure of the purpose of this button, but I assume its requirement serves a very useful function).  Where zmodeler has a lot of its strength is that it will snap and weld and remove faces for you all without you having to do a thing or even think about it (for instance if you extrude one face a long way, put a loop half way up and then extrude a neighboring face up to that loop, there won't be and doubles).  Less steps, more intuitive (which is not the case for a ton of the rest of zbrush).

For sending the mesh to the sculpt room it is also not exactly straight forward.  Without that video I would've been hunting for that menu item forever, because I would've a) assumed it would be in the retopo room (ie send selected mesh to sculpt room) and b_) assumed it would be something I could access through right clicking on the item in the vox tree or retopo objects list.  Indeed both rooms should probably have the menu option, so you could conceivably do a bunch of separate mesh modeling in the retopo room and send them over one by one for later sculpting without actually having to switch rooms every time.  Actually, moving the things through the various rooms is often the most confusing aspect of 3d coat.

In other words it's usually not functionality 3D Coat lacks, or Zbrush wouldn't have kept on copying features, it's the organization and usability of the tools already there.

Edit:  I should also note that I didn't even know of the existence of a 3d Coat Training Channel as opposed to the 3d Coat Channel.

Edited by Falconius

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11 hours ago, Falconius said:

Well actually it is kind of cumbersome to extrude, at least for me (although even if 3d coat doesn't change a thing I've been learning a lot on this thread).  If I want to extrude something I have to choose the select tool, choose the faces I want to extrude, hit the extrude tool to open up the tool window, use the gizmo to extrude the faces and then if I want to extrude something else I have to hit escape to deselect, but that will actually only exit the tool so you have to hit escape again to deselect the faces, then go through the whole process again with the added step of hitting the "Commit extrusion" button on the extrusion tool panel (I'm not sure of the purpose of this button, but I assume its requirement serves a very useful function).  Where zmodeler has a lot of its strength is that it will snap and weld and remove faces for you all without you having to do a thing or even think about it (for instance if you extrude one face a long way, put a loop half way up and then extrude a neighboring face up to that loop, there won't be and doubles).  Less steps, more intuitive (which is not the case for a ton of the rest of zbrush).

For sending the mesh to the sculpt room it is also not exactly straight forward.  Without that video I would've been hunting for that menu item forever, because I would've a) assumed it would be in the retopo room (ie send selected mesh to sculpt room) and b_) assumed it would be something I could access through right clicking on the item in the vox tree or retopo objects list.  Indeed both rooms should probably have the menu option, so you could conceivably do a bunch of separate mesh modeling in the retopo room and send them over one by one for later sculpting without actually having to switch rooms every time.  Actually, moving the things through the various rooms is often the most confusing aspect of 3d coat.

In other words it's usually not functionality 3D Coat lacks, or Zbrush wouldn't have kept on copying features, it's the organization and usability of the tools already there.

Edit:  I should also note that I didn't even know of the existence of a 3d Coat Training Channel as opposed to the 3d Coat Channel.

I don't know about that. The "cumbersome" claim seems overstated. Let's review what is needed to perform EXTRUDE operations in regular 3D applications.

1) SELECT what sub-object mode you want to work in (Polys, edges and verts)

2) Select the sub-objects

3) Select the tool you want use OR

4) Select what type of TRANSFORM (Move, Rotate, Scale) operation you want....each time you want to perform a different transform operation.

5) When Beveling/extruding, one typically either has to click a button to create a new extrusion or bevel

6) When you want to Bevel or Extrude some different selections, you have to drop the current selection and make a new one

 

That is quite a lot of clicking or hotkeys to hit, just to perform a relatively simple operation. I keep saying TO CREATE A NEW EXTRUSION, JUST HIT THE ENTER KEY.

This is not cumbersome. I had to bang the table for a long time to get Andrew to add this functionality, including the option to lock the Gizmo orientation to local space. I also got Andrew to add the ability to quickly move the Pivot Point/ Action Center, but holding down the SHIFT. With the Transform Tool, there is no need to hit a hotkey for MOVE, another for SCALE, and another for ROTATE. You can assign your preferred hotkeys to the Sub-Objects, Transform tool, Expand/Contract (selection).

There are a lot of nifty Poly-Modeling tools, intended to speed tasks like these, up. Is it as quick to do in some areas as ZModeler? Perhaps not, but not having a gizmo to extrude means giving up the precision of a gizmo...ie, rotating, scaling or moving a very specific amount, and performing more than just extrusions with the same tool. Remember, you can move along an axis by grabbing the stem of the gizmo handles. You can move or rotate it in World space or screen space. You can (again) change the Pivot point on the fly, by holding the SHIFT key. You can Expand or Contract the selection with the + or - key on the NUM pad.....ALL WHILE THE TRANSFORM TOOL IS ACTIVE!

When you are in SELECT Mode, think of it as Sub-Object or Component mode. You are just telling 3D Coat that you want to do some mesh edits/poly-modeling operations. Andrew never gets enough credit, Yes, there are some areas that could be improved, but to call all the functionality that he added, cumbersome and inefficient is wrong, IMO. As for sending meshes to the Sculpt workspace, you could do something similar, for a long time. Go to the Sculpt workspace, hit the hotkey for IMPORT tool, (assign a hotkey first) hit a hotkey for the button FROM RETOPO, and in a matter of two hotkey presses, have a copy in the Sculpt workspace.

There isn't so much a lack of tools. It's largely a matter of taking the time to learn and use the tools. If a person goes through all the Quick Start videos for the Retopo Workspace, they'd have a much different view of what 3D Coat is capable of.

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In my opinion, 3D-Coat has developed the Retopo Room for performing retopology and over time, features have been enhanced for you to model similarly to a 3d application such as Blender, 3DS Max, Maya, and so on.
If you start making use of hotkey keys, surely your speeds of accomplishing your goals will increase.
The 3D-Coat Retopo Room tool system is completely different from the system used by ZBrush with ZModeler.
Some people love the 3D-Coat tool modeling process and others love the ZBrush ZModeler system process!

I understand what people are saying about the ZModeler features that are great!
I can say that there are things that are better to be done in ZModeler and others that are better to be done in Retopo Room.
I believe that if you have full knowledge of the tools of a program you will have a quality and fast work.

No program is perfect and we know that 3D-Coat is not just an expert program in one area. We are talking about a program that has several areas in a single program and that the degree of difficulty to maintain and implement functionalities is extremely difficult and I am not giving excuses to the developers of 3D-Coat.

We all have to have patience and understand that it is not overnight that a functionality will be made or changed.
I know that in the next versions of 3D-Coat, improvements will happen in all rooms of 3D-Coat.

I think we should suggest the features of the tool. Literally help develop the features: How, why, when. All of us together giving ideas and maturing tools (by making a list of the positives and negatives points.) And not simply asking to do ZModeler on 3D-Coat.
For example, if you would like to add and / or change the way a 3D-Coat tool works, please, introduce us so that it can reach the ears of Andrews and its developers!

I've been waiting for years for the implementation of Sculpt Rooms on 3D-Coat and incredible as it may seem, I do not want to have ZBrush's Sculpt Layers but rather the Paint Layers on the Sculpt Room. I believe the Paint Layers system with all those features that already exist in 3d-Coat and some other features would be perfect and even better than Zbrush!

For this, I am preparing a video where I will demonstrate a suggestion of the layout of Sculpt Layers, how it would work, explain all the features and what would happen to our projects if we artists had this system in our hands within 3D-Coat.
I know it will not be a perfect video (in fact, I've never made a video before), but I'd like to help everyone have that functionality by trying to get that video to Andrews and everyone.

In case, you do not want to make videos or do not have the time for this, I suggested that you document with image montages and make your ideas reach everyone, especially Andrew, so that together we can improve even more what is already good in 3D-Coat.

Please, I beg you not to misunderstand me about everything I said!

If not ask too much ...
What do you think of making this post a kind of documentation of ideas?
Put the features and list its characteristics (show images with image montages. It does not have to be a work of art, but in an organized way for all of us, what you really want from this tool.).
Let's get all our suggestions to Andrews, okay?

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10 hours ago, AbnRanger said:

I don't know about that. The "cumbersome" claim seems overstated. Let's review what is needed to perform EXTRUDE operations in regular 3D applications.

1) SELECT what sub-object mode you want to work in (Polys, edges and verts)

2) Select the sub-objects

3) Select the tool you want use OR

4) Select what type of TRANSFORM (Move, Rotate, Scale) operation you want....each time you want to perform a different transform operation.

5) When Beveling/extruding, one typically either has to click a button to create a new extrusion or bevel

6) When you want to Bevel or Extrude some different selections, you have to drop the current selection and make a new one

 

That is quite a lot of clicking or hotkeys to hit, just to perform a relatively simple operation. I keep saying TO CREATE A NEW EXTRUSION, JUST HIT THE ENTER KEY.

This is not cumbersome. I had to bang the table for a long time to get Andrew to add this functionality, including the option to lock the Gizmo orientation to local space. I also got Andrew to add the ability to quickly move the Pivot Point/ Action Center, but holding down the SHIFT. With the Transform Tool, there is no need to hit a hotkey for MOVE, another for SCALE, and another for ROTATE. You can assign your preferred hotkeys to the Sub-Objects, Transform tool, Expand/Contract (selection).

There are a lot of nifty Poly-Modeling tools, intended to speed tasks like these, up. Is it as quick to do in some areas as ZModeler? Perhaps not, but not having a gizmo to extrude means giving up the precision of a gizmo...ie, rotating, scaling or moving a very specific amount, and performing more than just extrusions with the same tool. Remember, you can move along an axis by grabbing the stem of the gizmo handles. You can move or rotate it in World space or screen space. You can (again) change the Pivot point on the fly, by holding the SHIFT key. You can Expand or Contract the selection with the + or - key on the NUM pad.....ALL WHILE THE TRANSFORM TOOL IS ACTIVE!

When you are in SELECT Mode, think of it as Sub-Object or Component mode. You are just telling 3D Coat that you want to do some mesh edits/poly-modeling operations. Andrew never gets enough credit, Yes, there are some areas that could be improved, but to call all the functionality that he added, cumbersome and inefficient is wrong, IMO. As for sending meshes to the Sculpt workspace, you could do something similar, for a long time. Go to the Sculpt workspace, hit the hotkey for IMPORT tool, (assign a hotkey first) hit a hotkey for the button FROM RETOPO, and in a matter of two hotkey presses, have a copy in the Sculpt workspace.

There isn't so much a lack of tools. It's largely a matter of taking the time to learn and use the tools. If a person goes through all the Quick Start videos for the Retopo Workspace, they'd have a much different view of what 3D Coat is capable of.

There is obviously a difference when you've grown with the program as you have, you've been intimately familiar with 3D Coat for years, so much so that Andrew has added functionality you pushed for.  New users simply haven't got that experience.  If one wants to sculpt or model, a new user isn't going to think about going to the retopo room necessarily.  They are in essences going to spend most of their time in the sculpt room (like for instance myself).  So when someone says, "I see this or that functionality in Zbrush, and I don't see it in 3D Coat," even if it's there, that should raise the question of "Why don't they see it?"  One reason could simply be PR, Zbrush has a lot of of PR, a lot, 3D Coat practically none.  The other reasons could be organization and implementation of the tools, another could be the intuitiveness of the way things work, and yet another could be the way the learning material is organized or labeled.  Don't get me wrong, I tried Zbrush and 3D Coat on trail periods before I chose and bought 3D Coat ( about a year ago).  I bought 3D Coat because of the much better price, and because it seemed just as functional as 4R7 if not more in some areas (retopo, remesh, painting).  I really really like 3D Coat, a lot, I think it is overall a better program.  I am now trying Zbrush 2018, and frankly I don't like it (other than these tools I've mentioned I find it opaque and painful to achieve even simple things that are plainly easy in 3D Coat), I'm quite likely to return it, all I'm doing is saying the positive things that I see in it.  There is no reason to get upset at this, or indeed of peoples ignorance, mine included, of features 3D Coat has.

And as I said I am learning a lot on this thread, including to hit enter to commit an extrusion. ;) Perhaps one solution to the Zbrush problem could simply be a thread, or a series of videos, going over comparable functionality between Zbrush and 3D coat and how to accomplish the same things in 3D Coat.

Edited by Falconius

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4 hours ago, Falconius said:

There is obviously a difference when you've grown with the program as you have, you've been intimately familiar with 3D Coat for years, so much so that Andrew has added functionality you pushed for.  New users simply haven't got that experience.  If one wants to sculpt or model, a new user isn't going to think about going to the retopo room necessarily.  They are in essences going to spend most of their time in the sculpt room (like for instance myself).  So when someone says, "I see this or that functionality in Zbrush, and I don't see it in 3D Coat," even if it's there, that should raise the question of "Why don't they see it?"  One reason could simply be PR, Zbrush has a lot of of PR, a lot, 3D Coat practically none.  The other reasons could be organization and implementation of the tools, another could be the intuitiveness of the way things work, and yet another could be the way the learning material is organized or labeled.  Don't get me wrong, I tried Zbrush and 3D Coat on trail periods before I chose and bought 3D Coat ( about a year ago).  I bought 3D Coat because of the much better price, and because it seemed just as functional as 4R7 if not more in some areas (retopo, remesh, painting).  I really really like 3D Coat, a lot, I think it is overall a better program.  I am now trying Zbrush 2018, and frankly I don't like it (other than these tools I've mentioned I find it opaque and painful to achieve even simple things that are plainly easy in 3D Coat), I'm quite likely to return it, all I'm doing is saying the positive things that I see in it.  There is no reason to get upset at this, or indeed of peoples ignorance, mine included, of features 3D Coat has.

And as I said I am learning a lot on this thread, including to hit enter to commit an extrusion. ;) Perhaps one solution to the Zbrush problem could simply be a thread, or a series of videos, going over comparable functionality between Zbrush and 3D coat and how to accomplish the same things in 3D Coat.

It gets a bit frustrating to continue to hear "It's cumbersome to Extrude" in the Retopo Workspace....and "I have to hit the Commit Extrusion button every time." No, you don't. Use your hotkeys and watch the videos I posted. I didn't add them into previous posts for nothing. I did so to help show what can be done and to dispel some misconceptions.

I agree with what others have said, here, in that it is good to have a competent set of Polymodeling tools in 3D Coat, so that much of the task can be done in one app, but it's probably best to use 3D Coat in concert with the Modeling toolsets in one's host 3D app. IMO, more attention should go to bringing Sculpting very close to ZB's level (they set the bar very high years ago), and continue to improve the Paint Workspace.

I think Andrew will try to do that and add some more sizzle to the Retopo tools (Sketch Retopo tool functionality?), for V5. That is a lot to chew on, even for him. When he is working in the Retopo workspace, that would be a good time to make tool suggestions, but right now, I think he is trying to finish the new Curves tool (replacement of the current legacy Curves tool) and get started on Sculpt layers.

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...Oh, and to address a point raised earlier. Pixologic doesn't do comparative tool videos between ZB and 3DC, so I don't think it's realistic to expect Pilgway to do likewise. Maybe some 3rd party (ZB & 3DC expert) could, but that is up to them. As for PR, Pixologic already carved out their niche in the industry, before 3D Coat came along, just over a decade ago. They were already huge and they have a budget to generate a lot of PR. Pilgway is still relatively small (but growing) and even though it's used in some of the biggest studios in the world (Disney, Blue Sky, ILM, Blizzard, etc.), they typically don't share their content with Pilgway, using legal concerns as their main reason why. 

Once Andrew gets Sculpt Layers in 3D Coat, you may see more and more sculpt sessions appear online. That has often been the main obstacle. If he does it well, we will probably see a big change. Before V4 was released, almost no one was modeling in 3D Coat. Once FFD lattices and the Pose tool was improved to include them, that changed quickly. Adding Sculpt layers will probably have a similar effect.

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A big advantage is the pricing policy of 3D Coat. ZBrush with 800 dollars for hobby users very much and ZBrush Core ($150) is very limited. The amateur version of 3D Coat for 99 dollars is much better than ZBrush Core and the pro version is significantly cheaper. Unfortunately many people still use cracks for ZBrush and professional artists would buy ZBrush if it would cost even 2000 dollars.

Edited by Spacetime

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@SpacetimeZbrushCore is near useless.  It's cripplingly limited, not just "very".  For casual users there are cheaper options, or Blender, a free option and indeed other free sculpting options.  And even for casual users it's not quite enough.   So I'm not surprised to hear the amateur version for 3D Coat is better.

7 hours ago, AbnRanger said:

It gets a bit frustrating to continue to hear "It's cumbersome to Extrude" in the Retopo Workspace....and "I have to hit the Commit Extrusion button every time." No, you don't. Use your hotkeys and watch the videos I posted. I didn't add them into previous posts for nothing. I did so to help show what can be done and to dispel some misconceptions.

I agree with what others have said, here, in that it is good to have a competent set of Polymodeling tools in 3D Coat, so that much of the task can be done in one app, but it's probably best to use 3D Coat in concert with the Modeling toolsets in one's host 3D app. IMO, more attention should go to bringing Sculpting very close to ZB's level (they set the bar very high years ago), and continue to improve the Paint Workspace.

I think Andrew will try to do that and add some more sizzle to the Retopo tools (Sketch Retopo tool functionality?), for V5. That is a lot to chew on, even for him. When he is working in the Retopo workspace, that would be a good time to make tool suggestions, but right now, I think he is trying to finish the new Curves tool (replacement of the current legacy Curves tool) and get started on Sculpt layers.

Yes. I watched the videos.

The Zmodeller tangent is just that a tangent, no one here thinks such a thing is necessary for 3D Coat to step up their game via Zbrush, or even more so that they ought to focus on that as opposed to all the other things that would be far more beneficial.

Again one of my wishes would be something akin to Live Booleans, I remember someone here posting an awesome video showing the versatility of the Vox Hide tool.  Unfortunately for a mere mortal like myself it's not always easy to envision exactly how such operations might appear.  If there was some way to do live Vox Boolean Hide that would be epic.  Or maybe a way to preview the effects of a "Subtract From ..." operation, with a gizmo to make minor corrections before committing.  (Yes, I realize you can undo, make adjustments and try again if you don't like the results)  Edit:  Or since we already in essence have additive layers (just make 'em all in a sub tree and merge when satisfied) make it so you can switch a vox object to negative.  Intersect and the intersect opposite are not really necessary.  Negative would be the big get.

Edited by Falconius

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1 hour ago, Falconius said:

@SpacetimeZbrushCore is near useless.  It's cripplingly limited, not just "very".  For casual users there are cheaper options, or Blender, a free option and indeed other free sculpting options.  And even for casual users it's not quite enough.   So I'm not surprised to hear the amateur version for 3D Coat is better.

Yes. I watched the videos.

The Zmodeller tangent is just that a tangent, no one here thinks such a thing is necessary for 3D Coat to step up their game via Zbrush, or even more so that they ought to focus on that as opposed to all the other things that would be far more beneficial.

Again one of my wishes would be something akin to Live Booleans, I remember someone here posting an awesome video showing the versatility of the Vox Hide tool.  Unfortunately for a mere mortal like myself it's not always easy to envision exactly how such operations might appear.  If there was some way to do live Vox Boolean Hide that would be epic.  Or maybe a way to preview the effects of a "Subtract From ..." operation, with a gizmo to make minor corrections before committing.  (Yes, I realize you can undo, make adjustments and try again if you don't like the results)  Edit:  Or since we already in essence have additive layers (just make 'em all in a sub tree and merge when satisfied) make it so you can switch a vox object to negative.  Intersect and the intersect opposite are not really necessary.  Negative would be the big get.

That's a pretty good idea. You already have a quasi-interactive boolean function with the MOVEABLE STAMP Draw mode, when using something like the EXTRUDE brush. Just invert it (or hold down the CTRL Key). Perhaps Andrew can enable VOX HIDE functionality with Primitives and Import tool

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Will be nice to add an interactive and non-destructive boolean state -close to eye icon- to every layer: add, subtract, intersect, split.

The Boolean process must be done hierarchically from top to bottom

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Not a feature per se, but one thing that's really missing in my opinion is a proper written documentation. Nothing against the videos, they are done very well, but in my workflow I use 3D Coat now and then for specific tasks and I'd wager that's the case with many users who do 3D professionally. 

This means I need something to get me up to speed quickly and directly and I might forget things between uses. The tooltipps are great for this as a first step, but an up to date documentation with workflow examples would go a long way. The current documentation is often lacking in that regard.

The problem with the videos is the time they take to watch, they might be outdated at times, valuable tipps might be buried somewhere in them without this being apparent from the description. Of course they have advantages too (and like said they are very well done) but they can't replace a full written documentation in my opinion.

 

As far as features are concerned I agree that sculpting layers are missing (I can't imagine that would work for voxels, though) and I'd also say that sculpting, painting and retopo should be the main focus of the software.

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6 hours ago, Findus said:

Not a feature per se, but one thing that's really missing in my opinion is a proper written documentation. Nothing against the videos, they are done very well, but in my workflow I use 3D Coat now and then for specific tasks and I'd wager that's the case with many users who do 3D professionally. 

This means I need something to get me up to speed quickly and directly and I might forget things between uses. The tooltipps are great for this as a first step, but an up to date documentation with workflow examples would go a long way. The current documentation is often lacking in that regard.

The problem with the videos is the time they take to watch, they might be outdated at times, valuable tipps might be buried somewhere in them without this being apparent from the description. Of course they have advantages too (and like said they are very well done) but they can't replace a full written documentation in my opinion.

 

As far as features are concerned I agree that sculpting layers are missing (I can't imagine that would work for voxels, though) and I'd also say that sculpting, painting and retopo should be the main focus of the software.

I agree with you.
Please, you do not get me wrong, I know people documenting the 3D-Coat, make great efforts and has much work to do the documentation, but...
It has happened to me to look for details about the operation of a tool or program features in the manual and, unfortunately, it was not very well explained and almost no detailed information or methods (examples) are found.
Often the material is not up to date ...
There is an online manual, but I confess I already gave up on it ...

It is complicated to document a program that is constantly changing, perfecting and adding functionality. Although some features are already matured, but still, they are subject to certain transformations.
Surely, this is not an excuse to be given not to keep the documentation updated ...
I stopped to think now .... You already imagined, the person who is doing this documentation work, so he/she has just left everything perfect, then when he/she will see, changes were made in 3D-Coat and he/she will have to redo the documentation work!

Regarding the videos, I understand what you mean! They are very valuable and essential, but many tips and features will go unnoticed because most people do not have the patience to watch the videos!
You might even think that people making explanatory videos should put the topics covered in the video in the subject of the videos. But at the same time, to make a video is very laborious, it takes time to be done and I believe that there is still a deadline to be delivered the video. Therefore, I understand that people who make videos do not have the time to list the subjects covered.
Sometimes the videos become outdated and this is completely normal! The methodologies covered were from older versions of 3D-Coat (which is undergoing constant changes).

In my opinion, the 3D-Coat online manual should always be up to date, with explanations and examples of the tools and features of the program. (As if it were the bible of the program).

At the same time, videos are essential and vital to me.
What could complement the videos was something I've already suggested in past posts about performing Streams addressing various subjects and techniques about 3D-Coat.
It would be a way for the community to get involved and help each other with techniques and tips. This is a great way to document 3D-Coat!
I know that in today's world, the price of information is valuable and / or people often do not have time to do it.

If Streams happen by people who know the program, they would not need to do a job like Michelangelo or Rodan. They could introduce Stream to doing the demonstrations with a ball or head that comes in the program itself ... just demonstrating techniques, functionalities, tips (sort of: Did you know ...?!).

Regarding Sculpt Layers, I believe it will not be used in Voxels, but in Surface mode.

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16 hours ago, Carlosan said:

Will be nice to add an interactive and non-destructive boolean state -close to eye icon- to every layer: add, subtract, intersect, split.

The Boolean process must be done hierarchically from top to bottom

That would be perfect an interactive and non-destructive boolean system!!!

Just for a notion the following video:

 

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I agree that the sculpting, retopoing / baking and painting are the core parts of 3DC. These areas are first to me to be developed and improved.

Modeling in the retopo room would not be excluded but in the development schedule with the knowledge that those 3 are first. 

The first 3 areas are the main reasons people buy 3DC. Major improvements in these areas would offer inventives to buy or upgrade. There are some major improvements

in those 3 areas slated for Version 5.

 

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Point is 3DC’s user interface needs serious reorganization to improve workflow and remove annoyances ?

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5 hours ago, Carlosan said:

Point is 3DC’s user interface needs serious reorganization to improve workflow and remove annoyances ?

I agree 100% with you! You said few words! But said everything!

I do not know if you all remember the old Blender interface.
I know a lot of Blender users would like to further improve the Blender interface, but if you compare the Blender 2.4 interface to the 2.8 interface, you'll clearly see a brutal difference (for the better).

I'll quickly tell you my story with Blender ...
 
At the time of blender 2.4, when I tried to learn to use the program, I looked at the interface completely confused and even then, I tried to learn how Blender works through some videos tutorials.
Conclusion: At the same time, I gave up and I never wanted to know about this program again!
I found it extremely confusing, not intuitive, unorganized, complicated to learn and difficult to use!

After a while, by irony of fate, I rediscovered Blender with a new interface and completely different! In fact, I thought it was another 3D program !!! And to my surprise it was Blender! At the same time, I tried to learn more about the program, I started to learn how to use it and Blender became one of my main programs!

The interface and the current organization of 3D-Coat has evolved in relation to the versions of 3D-Coat 3.1 - 3.3.

In my opinion, 3D-Coat should rethink its concept in relation to the interface and organization of the program. Currently, it's ok! But, it is still confusing.
I believe it needs to solidify even more and better organize the way the program is used so there are fewer messes and better workflow!

I know we can customise the program. But, still not ideal.

At the moment, I'm going to list some customizations that I miss in the interface:

- The ability to create custom windows / tabs (with shortcuts). In these windows, we could insert (or drag) any tools or features of 3D-Coat that we wanted! And these windows could fit anywhere on the interface.

- The possibility of placing any tools or features of 3D-Coat that we use most in the program interface itself.

- The ability to create or choose smaller icons for the Brushes or program features. Organizing them any way we wanted!

- The possibility of being able to list the brushes in the horizontal direction and at the same time with an option of not showing the name of the brush.

- Currently, the Brushes session is fixed on the left side of the screen in all rooms ...
The possibility of being able to move the session of Brushes to any place (left side, right, top, base) and direction (vertical, horizontal) in the interface.

- The possibility that when a window floats on the screen, we could add other windows. And at the same time, take control and arrange the windows any way we want inside that floating window on the screen. This floating window could be hidden or revealed according to the use of a shortcut.
 

blender_old_to_now.jpg

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I rather have them focus on the main tools issues and improve  them before worried about the interface or something conveniences. There are tools they need to be invented or improve to fill up the gap in modeling right now.

of course if they have resource to fix those thing then it would be awesome. lol.

 

Edited by TLE

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44 minutes ago, TLE said:

I rather have them focus on the main tools issues and improve  them before worried about the interface or something conveniences. There are tools they need to be invented or improve to fill up the gap in modeling right now.

of course if they have resource to fix those thing then it would be awesome. lol.

 

My biggest focus when I created this Post was that we were able to get great features and tools in 3D-Coat. As well as tool enhancements that already exist in 3D-Coat!

I, particularly since I already have a certain understanding of how 3D-Coat works and I'm already accustomed to the interface, I had no intention of suggesting interface changes or the way 3D-Coat works.
But if we stop to think a little, these changes or increments in relation to the interface and the operation of 3D-Coat should be considered as well. After all, it is the basis and structure of the program!

In my opinion, even though I'm not a programmer, I believe the changes I've suggested in the interface and features would not be complicated and would help us a lot in our work.
In addition, they could be made at the same time of the development of the great functionalities and tools that we hope so much for the 3D-Coat.

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I love blender interface. It is extremely scalable and extremely sharp at any screen resolution. Unfortunately, the texts in 3D Coat are a little blurry with 4k. I tried different solutions and settings, it doesn't help. A problem that many programs have with 4k, also large Autodesk products. Software world is not quite ready for 4k.

3DCoatInterface.jpg

BlenderInterface.jpg

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I don't want to beat a dead horse, but the single most important feature for me would be sculpt layers.  I just cannot live without them anymore.
I will wait for the next big update to see if everyone's request has been heard...if not, I will be going back to zbrush/mudbox.

 

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1 hour ago, Werner_Z said:

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but the single most important feature for me would be sculpt layers.  I just cannot live without them anymore.
I will wait for the next big update to see if everyone's request has been heard...if not, I will be going back to zbrush/mudbox.

 

I agree with you! And do not give up asking Sculpt Layers. Your help is extremely important by asking Andrew.

I'm sure that with your help and the other artists that use 3D-Coat, together we will be able to get our request (Sculpt Layers and other great features and tools) to Andrew's knowledge.

Even though I have never done a video previously and without much time availability, I am developing a video, where I talk about how essential and important Sculpt Layers's development within the 3D-Coat is for us artists.

My goal is for this video to become very popular so that everyone can get this video to Andrew's attention through thousands of emails requesting the implementation of Sculpt Layers on 3D-Coat.
Sculpt Layers is vital in a production!

I believe that in this way, Andrew will focus his efforts on our requests and making 3D-Coat even better than it already is!

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