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3DCoat 4.8 BETA testing thread


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On 1/17/2018 at 10:05 PM, cakeller said:

Hi again...

Still having the same problem - just tested and 4.8.09 still does not zoom extents by using Shift+A for retopo geometry if there is no surface or voxel underlying it.  It only works for surface and voxel objects.  Since I'm trying to layout UVs on my low-poly mesh, I need the zoop extents (shift+a) to work in retopo even when there's no surface or voxel.

If there is only a retopo object but no sculpt object, then Shift+A centers to the origin instead of the center of, or bounds of the selected retopo object.


You can test this by:

1) create a simple object in sculpt room.  
2) move it away from the origin (or don't, as long as it is not at the origin in the end)  
3) Autotopo the sculpt.  
4) Delete the sculpt object
5) Switch to the Retop Room, click "Select" tool, then select anything - a face, an edge, a vertext, the whole shell.
6) Press Shift+A and the result is that 3D Coat zooms to the origin, not to the bounding box of the selection.

Again - this does not happen if you have a sculpt object, it is only when you are trying to zoom to the extents of a retopo only object.

 

 

@Oleg_Shapo or @anyone - It's been a month since I first asked this question and at least the third time reposting.  Working UVing an imported mesh, and trying to work on different areas is incredibly painful to navigate.  imagine you're working on uving a finger and every time you want to zoom out to the hand shift+a instead takes you down to the feet and zoomed in.  basically the retopo-type geometry has no bearing on the model extents.  if it's what you are zooming in to - nothing is seen and therefore you are zoomed right to the origin.  I gave up using 3D-COAT for this project because I had to get it done (a long time ago) but now I definitely would have to use a different workflow, especially if there's not even an acknowledgement of if the problem is user-error? or if this is intended functionality? or if it is, in fact, a bug.   if it's user error - help!!! if it's a bug - just need to know it'll eventually get fixed - if it's intended functionality... WHY? haha.  It just seems like such an easy thing to confirm.

Really shift+a in the retopo and uv rooms should have an option shift+ctrl+a to zoom to selected visible layer.  that'd be very nice.  but at the very least it should recognize retopo and UV geometry as part of the extents with relation to zooming.  Again - this is unless I'm doing something wrong and this is already possible?

Thanks

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1 hour ago, cakeller said:

@Oleg_Shapo or @anyone - It's been a month since I first asked this question and at least the third time reposting.  Working UVing an imported mesh, and trying to work on different areas is incredibly painful to navigate.  imagine you're working on uving a finger and every time you want to zoom out to the hand shift+a instead takes you down to the feet and zoomed in.  basically the retopo-type geometry has no bearing on the model extents.  if it's what you are zooming in to - nothing is seen and therefore you are zoomed right to the origin.  I gave up using 3D-COAT for this project because I had to get it done (a long time ago) but now I definitely would have to use a different workflow, especially if there's not even an acknowledgement of if the problem is user-error? or if this is intended functionality? or if it is, in fact, a bug.   if it's user error - help!!! if it's a bug - just need to know it'll eventually get fixed - if it's intended functionality... WHY? haha.  It just seems like such an easy thing to confirm.

Really shift+a in the retopo and uv rooms should have an option shift+ctrl+a to zoom to selected visible layer.  that'd be very nice.  but at the very least it should recognize retopo and UV geometry as part of the extents with relation to zooming.  Again - this is unless I'm doing something wrong and this is already possible?

Thanks

have you tried one of these two thing :

1. Go to the Bake menu > update paint mesh with retopo mesh
(This will bring your retopo mesh to the paint room, therefore 3DC will have something to zoom on)

2. Go to the sculpt room and in the menu Geometry > "Retopo mesh > Sculpt mesh"
 

Furthermore, I suggest acquiring a 3dConnexion Space Navigator.

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2 hours ago, cakeller said:

@Oleg_Shapo or @anyone - It's been a month since I first asked this question and at least the third time reposting.  Working UVing an imported mesh, and trying to work on different areas is incredibly painful to navigate.  imagine you're working on uving a finger and every time you want to zoom out to the hand shift+a instead takes you down to the feet and zoomed in.  basically the retopo-type geometry has no bearing on the model extents.  if it's what you are zooming in to - nothing is seen and therefore you are zoomed right to the origin.  I gave up using 3D-COAT for this project because I had to get it done (a long time ago) but now I definitely would have to use a different workflow, especially if there's not even an acknowledgement of if the problem is user-error? or if this is intended functionality? or if it is, in fact, a bug.   if it's user error - help!!! if it's a bug - just need to know it'll eventually get fixed - if it's intended functionality... WHY? haha.  It just seems like such an easy thing to confirm.

Really shift+a in the retopo and uv rooms should have an option shift+ctrl+a to zoom to selected visible layer.  that'd be very nice.  but at the very least it should recognize retopo and UV geometry as part of the extents with relation to zooming.  Again - this is unless I'm doing something wrong and this is already possible?

Thanks

Please look at the video, maybe I'm doing something wrong.

retopo.mp4

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22 hours ago, Oleg_Shapo said:

Please look at the video, maybe I'm doing something wrong.

retopo.mp4

Actually yes, to be able to see the problem you have to move the retopo mesh.  I was mistaken about the origin and bounds of the shift+a.  It is set by the sculpt (or paint object).  if you position the sculpt object where the retopo object is, you are tricked into believing that the shift+a zoom function is working correctly (ish).  however if you transform the retopo object somewhere where there is no sculpt(or paint) object, then the shift+a does not behave as needed.

I have attached a video to show what I mean.


* lesaint, importing to the painting room, is a workaround similar to what I had done in the past of importing the retopo room as voxel or surface to make it an object.  but what a pain in the b.  to make the UI do what should come naturally instantly many many times over a day, I would have to create bogus geometry?  And while I understand the Space Navigator works for some folks, I find it awful and awkward.  Not for lack of trying.  I've had a few over the years - and they always end up collecting dust after the initial excitement wears off and I have to get real work done.  manipulation and the UI need to be second nature.  the UI needs to get out of the way of the work.  And I need to keep my hands connected to the input devices so I'm never fumbling around.  Being able to focus in on the area where you are working instantaneously is a critical to an efficient workflow.  I did find something pretty useful - Shift+Z - GREAT tool... too bad it 1/2 suffers from the same problem as Shift+A.  That is, if there is a sculpt, then it will prefer the sculpt over the retopo.  However since I am trying to do UVing on an object that never had a sculpt in the first place, it appears that SHIFT+Z might do the trick.  It's still not fluid enough.  SHIFT+A should simply just zoom to the extents of what is visible, including ALL geometry, retopo or otherwise.  You then hide what you're not working on and SHIFT+A would zoom to those bounds every time.  simple-clean-effective.  And how MOST(?ALL?) 3D programs I've used do it.  I can't think of another that has a problem with this concept.

thanks for the replies.

 

2018-02-08_10h26_11.mp4

Edited by cakeller
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Hi! I'm a reocurring forum user. I bought 3DC when it was in 3.5, now I'm making a big push to get back into this mind blowing software, as my career went in different directions where this wasn't my main modeling package...bla-bla.

So as expected I'm searching for a few answers, I hope this is the right place to ask them, Andrew steered me in this drection, so I hope I'm cool.

Q: is there a way to rotate things in two axis at the same time. For example like when I press "r" twice in blender I have an arbitrary rotation. I found that translating on a certain plane XY,XZ,YZ has been added recently, so am I missing something with the rotations.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

cheers.

Edited by bantu
grammar
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Hi,

I've been away from 3D-Coat for a while because of a move to a different computer. I'd like to reinstall 3D-Coat now on the other machine (I've deactivated my license on the previous machine), but I'd like to know: can I install the latest beta download right away and activate my license, or do I need to install the official 3D-Coat 4.8 release first?

Thanks,

Metin

Edited by Metin Seven
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I found the EXTRUDE brush in Voxel mode, is broken in build 4.8.10. It works in 4.8.08, just not 4.8.10. Can anyone else test and see if you can confirm this? Andrew said he sees nothing wrong on his end, but I've done everything I can think of. Deleted all the Options.xml config files > re-installed 4.8.10, and nothing changes. The other brushes work, but EXTRUDE is totally broken.

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5 hours ago, AbnRanger said:

If I try the Voxel EXTRUDE brush on a default sphere, it works....unless as you said, you change the resolution. But the default human figure or bust, it doesn't work with a brush mode, at all.

also doesn't work for me exactly as you describe...

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@Oleg_Shapo  Hi Oleg, there is a major problem with importing an extension in the 2+ GB range of smart material libraries at least.  My materials are mostly 8k textures in jpg format and one in tif as a depth map for each. So for example my backup I want to restore is made of 11 materials and as soon as I try to import the extension 3DCoat tells me to restart to apply changes (within 3 seconds) and no files have been installed.

One last thing, when I press on add new layer or delete etc nothing happens in the layer window icons , I usually have to go to the top menu find layers and add or delete from there.

Edited by Ascensi
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9 hours ago, Ascensi said:

@Oleg_Shapo  Hi Oleg, there is a major problem with importing an extension in the 2+ GB range of smart material libraries at least.  My materials are mostly 8k textures in jpg format and one in tif as a depth map for each. So for example my backup I want to restore is made of 11 materials and as soon as I try to import the extension 3DCoat tells me to restart to apply changes (within 3 seconds) and no files have been installed.

One last thing, when I press on add new layer or delete etc nothing happens in the layer window icons , I usually have to go to the top menu find layers and add or delete from there.

Hello! Please send an archive with materials 8k to support@3dcoat.com. We will check and try to fix the problem.
On the second question. In which room is this happening?

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When you move vertices around with the Add/Split tool, 3d-coat does not seem to "recalculate normals" like it does with the Brush tool. Surely, that is an oversight ?

I am not sure about the terminology to use, sorry if I am saying something completely stupid.

Edited by lesaint
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We have currently the ability to freeze by painted pixels. Our workflow would be faster if we could also select to freeze by color selection. Choose a color and freeze that color. 

This would increase the power of the freeze tool and be very helpful. 

If possible have a delete feature as well as an option like when you press the delete key on the keyboard and all 3 channels are deleted for that selected layer. 

The feature would freeze by color choice and if the workflow require deleting all the current channels information in the frozen area but not remove the freeze. 

I would be happy for now with just freeze by color and if delete could be added then that is icing on the cake. 

Thank you for are your consideration and when it would fit into the development schedule.

 

Edited by digman
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1 hour ago, digman said:

We have currently the ability to freeze by painted pixels. Our workflow would be faster if we could also select to freeze by color selection. Choose a color and freeze that color. 

This would increase the power of the freeze tool and be very helpful. 

If possible have a delete feature as well as an option like when you press the delete key on the keyboard and all 3 channels are deleted for that selected layer. 

The feature would freeze by color choice and if the workflow require deleting all the current channels information in the frozen area but not remove the freeze. 

I would be happy for now with just freeze by color and if delete could be added then that is icing on the cake. 

Thank you for are your consideration and when it would fit into the development schedule.

 

Doesn't the Magic Wand actually do this?

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Yes you can turn it off but then the entire model is filled freeze.

If you turn color tolerance on and you set it to "0" nothing happens. 1.000 is default. Any setting less than "1.0" gives a overall slight freeze. 

Then you are back to adjusting the tolerance setting trying to find that sweet spot and still you are left with areas that you have to hold down shift and left button to select. If you have lots of small areas to select, this is time consuming. When you want only one color to be selected and no surrounding pixels, this just is not fine enough control.

If you go to far with the tolerance then you start selecting colors you do not want to select. Higher numbers mean more adjacent pixels of a different color will be selected and you get more continuous coverage.

If you choose 1.0, yes it almost selects one color but it is not continuous, so you have a lot of shift-left mouse button selecting. Sure at times you only want the close areas to be selected, The magic wand tool is great for this. At other times you just want that one color all over the model to be selected. Then you are  back to the problem of finding a color tolerance that will work, too time consuming and not accurate enough.

To freeze by color selection, once you selected the color, all those "specific pixels" on the entire model are frozen. Very fast and very accurate, just like freezing painted pixels but with finer control.

My request stands but as normal it depends upon the development schedule. I do not ask Andrew to drop what he is doing to add a request or think about adding one,  I"ve only have once in 10 years asked Andrew to fix something, if he could ASAP because of a work related issue.

 

Edited by digman
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7 hours ago, digman said:

Yes you can turn it off but then the entire model is filled freeze.

If you turn color tolerance on and you set it to "0" nothing happens. 1.000 is default. Any setting less than "1.0" gives a overall slight freeze. 

Then you are back to adjusting the tolerance setting trying to find that sweet spot and still you are left with areas that you have to hold down shift and left button to select. If you have lots of small areas to select, this is time consuming. When you want only one color to be selected and no surrounding pixels, this just is not fine enough control.

If you go to far with the tolerance then you start selecting colors you do not want to select. Higher numbers mean more adjacent pixels of a different color will be selected and you get more continuous coverage.

If you choose 1.0, yes it almost selects one color but it is not continuous, so you have a lot of shift-left mouse button selecting. Sure at times you only want the close areas to be selected, The magic wand tool is great for this. At other times you just want that one color all over the model to be selected. Then you are  back to the problem of finding a color tolerance that will work, too time consuming and not accurate enough.

To freeze by color selection, once you selected the color, all those "specific pixels" on the entire model are frozen. Very fast and very accurate, just like freezing painted pixels but with finer control.

My request stands but as normal it depends upon the development schedule. I do not ask Andrew to drop what he is doing to add a request or think about adding one,  I"ve only have once in 10 years asked Andrew to fix something, if he could ASAP because of a work related issue.

 

Ok. I see what you are saying. Magic wand always seemed to work fairly well when I used, it, but I guess I could see the benefit in what you are asking for. With the Magic wand, I was thinking w/ Color Tolerance unchecked, it would only pick the exact color value selected, rather than all pixels. At any rate, it still needs a checkbox for "Contiguous"...which is something I asked Andrew about, before. I think that is similar to what you are asking. With it unchecked, it would select that color across the whole layer. It would also need an option to select color across all layers.

After further thought and testing, I don't think we can just tell 3D Coat "pick and freeze" this color without having to use Color Tolerance in most cases. Why? Because when you paint different colors on the same layer, it gets blended with all other pixels around it, along the boundary of a stroke. Falloff, Opacity, Brush Alphas, and  Border Width, all have a part in determining how much blending of pixels there are. So, there will usually be some bleeding of that color left, even at a CT of 32.

Where I think your request would be most helpful is if you are trying to select it across different layers, objects and UV maps.

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I once asked to be able to blend several layers at once... I think it was you AbnRanger who replied that "this doesn't exist in photoshop", then I was blocked from that section of the forums, thus could not reply, and shortly after locked out of Mantis. I didn't post here again for two years after that.

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10 minutes ago, lesaint said:

I once asked to be able to blend several layers at once... I think it was you AbnRanger who replied that "this doesn't exist in photoshop", then I was blocked from that section of the forums, thus could not reply, and shortly after locked out of Mantis. I didn't post here again for two years after that.

I'm not sure I follow your point? I'm not a forum administrator, so I couldn't/can't block you, if that is what you are implying. Furthermore, how is blending layers relevant to what me and Digman are discussing? If you are referring to multi-layer selection, somehow, many of us have asked Andrew for it a number of times over the past 5+yrs, and he hasn't responded. Must be a major undertaking or something.

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