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3DCoat 4.8 BETA testing thread


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51 minutes ago, haikalle said:

But in the end this is his product and his company. I think it's not our place to tell him what direction to take with creating other product. Of course we can make feature requests for 3d-coat and report bugs and that's very important part. But in the end it's Andrew that make final decisions, because he owns this company.

I certainly know that. However, these weren't his own ideas. They were initiated by someone selling him on the notion that it would be a GREAT idea to make a special version for this or that. It's important for the rest of us to speak up and say "No, it's not a great idea. It's a bad one....for 3DCoat users. Why? Because all the requests users have been patiently waiting on....for years, in many cases, have been brushed aside in favor of these offshoots, which have proven fruitless thus far. 

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I think Andrew does not read this forum at all and he does not know that there are people who are *******up with the innovations in the program. Again, there is a feeling of complete lack of feedback. The question then is why this forum is at all. With all this, for some reason, a free blender is deprived of a gigantic, enormous heap of problems and departures associated with a particular simple action. There are things that are difficult and difficult to do in Blender, but they are NOT his main features. With the same things that are PRIMARY (namely, polygonal modeling, creating a sweep yv), the blender developers coped with amazing efficiency. Not to mention the huge number of add-ons that make the work in so delightful a program even more convenient and efficient.

A 3d koat ... PAID program, with a huge number of user requests just clog. When people write about certain problems, the answer most often is no. When people write for six years about the fact that there is still no normal tool for adding chamfers, then somehow the desire to use the program disappears even after it has already been bought.

That is why Blender, max, zbrash, know "everything" (from those who are engaged in three-dimensional graphics). About 3d Coat also knows very few people. All because of pofigizma and otstutsviya adequate feedback and driving to correct errors. Instead of fixing a good old one so that it works absolutely stable, they add an even more buggy new one, as a result, the product turns out to be inadequate even in terms of its small price. In 2010, 3d koat would be breakthrough. Now it is felt at the level of 2010, while the rest of the modeling industry is moving forward every six months.

It can be said that I am a whiner, and in general, if everything is so bad, why I am writing here and using this program, however I am writing this in the hope that Andrew will get something going wrong and you need to start listening to users . At least remove a huge pile of old bugs.

 

p.s. sorry for my "perfect" english please. 

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Throwing my 2 cents in:

If I were to go about things I'd focus on the big bugs first (like stop work and fix right now), then finishing up features that were in development already/improvement of features, and lastly adding the extra features wanted. Of those 3 stages listed it could be half a year or longer for just the first stage depending on how bad the bugs are or how much needs fixing but whatever the time period is I feel it would be a necessary pain to get through before jumping the gun and introducing any more new content. I of course love seeing new beta builds with cool new features, however I do understand if we are to get a solid 3D Coat, bugs need to be worked out first before things get more messy. This is not to say with patches new features can come alongside with several bug fixes, just as long as the new stuff is not bringing along with it even more trouble.

I don't know how big the 3D Coat team is or if they can hire a few extra hands but feature creep can definitely become a problem. Setting goals into sprints (these sprints could be several months) could definitely help too. Like for one entire sprint the only work done will be bug fixing, then another for completing features that were half finished, improving present features, and then another adding in new features. Maybe the 3D Coat team just need more organization in what should be worked on or prioritized. Having a visual roadmap and focus can really help the program become more solid and also avoid that pressure the team may feel with all the requests and suggestions they get. The customers will know what is being worked on and when they can expect new features to come down the road. I am in no way judging the 3D Coat team, merely throwing out an idea for the current concern most customers have. Another way for them to decide what new feature should come next is have the community vote on it, the more popular concise features voted upon will have a higher chance of getting focused on first.

3D Coat in its current state is still a great tool. I love it a lot since it can get so much done. I pretty much participate in the betas not becasue I'm looking for the next flaw or a chance to just toss more ideas in, I want the program to become the best it can be. Only way to do that is by using it and experiencing first hand through a workflow. I then see what the program is currently doing great while also what is missing/needs improvement.

Edited by Mystical
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In my opinion, 3DCoat is a powerful and amazing software. All improvements are always welcome BUT you have to let time pass by if you want to be almost 100% sure it's not a bugged feature. That's the same thing with every software or almost (the only one I know I never had an issue with is Akeytsu, but anyway). 3dsMax ? it's probably the most user-script-patched existing software. Maya ? Depending on what you want to do everything is not always functional. You have to DEAL with it. And on my own 3DCoat rarely blocked me on my tasks ( I use it mainly for texturing "low" poly assets, sometimes for UVs and sometimes for rendering ). And above all, it's developed by a small team, which is gorgeously dedicated and talented to me.

Blowing the fire to them is NOT a good solution guys, just be patient enough and tell them peacefully what doesn't work at the moment. While being a more professional way of exchange, it's also better for you and devs who may consider your opinion.

I wish you the best guys

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11 hours ago, Vexod14 said:

In my opinion, 3DCoat is a powerful and amazing software. All improvements are always welcome BUT you have to let time pass by if you want to be almost 100% sure it's not a bugged feature. That's the same thing with every software or almost (the only one I know I never had an issue with is Akeytsu, but anyway). 3dsMax ? it's probably the most user-script-patched existing software. Maya ? Depending on what you want to do everything is not always functional. You have to DEAL with it. And on my own 3DCoat rarely blocked me on my tasks ( I use it mainly for texturing "low" poly assets, sometimes for UVs and sometimes for rendering ). And above all, it's developed by a small team, which is gorgeously dedicated and talented to me.

Blowing the fire to them is NOT a good solution guys, just be patient enough and tell them peacefully what doesn't work at the moment. While being a more professional way of exchange, it's also better for you and devs who may consider your opinion.

I wish you the best guys

I'm frustrated with those who get in Andrew's ear, selling these Blue Sky ideas how a separate version of 3DCoat would be great for this niche or that. Why not just buy 3DCoat and use it for what you need out of it? My goodness, the Non-Commercial version has practically everything the Professional version does, except for a 7 layer and 2k UV map limit. If you need it for 3D Printing, use that. If you need to make some game mods, use that. If you need to design some shoes, use that...unless it is for commercial purposes, in which case you can get it on sale for $280! Why is that so hard to grasp for these people?

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I agree, the development must keep pace with other software such as Substance Painter. It gets polished and small changes added - such as the environment baker, which is great. Sculpt layers adds so much and is a killer feature, pushing 3DC forwards. I work for a games company and I've pushed 3DC, many have adopted it but they still revert to Substance for PBR texturing ZB for sculpting, and the results they get are very cool. When it comes to hand painted they'll use 3DC. The sculpting features are important to keep pace with other apps and its important to plug gaps such as why users want to use Substance over 3DC for PBR related work. Don't get me wrong - whats in 3DC ATM is very good... but having a piece of software that takes on so many other apps in its functionality - ZBrush, Substance, TopoGun etc its important not to take your foot off the gas and push forwards on all fronts.... not to start creating alternative versions, else you'll eventually loose the customers.  I think that's what AbnRanger means?

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5 hours ago, AbnRanger said:

I'm frustrated with those who get in Andrew's ear, selling these Blue Sky ideas how a separate version of 3DCoat would be great for this niche or that. Why not just buy 3DCoat and use it for what you need out of it? My goodness, the Non-Commercial version has practically everything the Professional version does, except for a 7 layer and 2k UV map limit. If you need it for 3D Printing, use that. If you need to make some game mods, use that. If you need to design some shoes, use that...unless it is for commercial purposes, in which case you can get it on sale for $280! Why is that so hard to grasp for these people?

I don't understand that either.  It's a bit like refusing to buy a hammer because it has a claw on the end and you don't want to pull nails.

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54 minutes ago, insignet said:

I agree, the development must keep pace with other software such as Substance Painter. It gets polished and small changes added - such as the environment baker, which is great. Sculpt layers adds so much and is a killer feature, pushing 3DC forwards. I work for a games company and I've pushed 3DC, many have adopted it but they still revert to Substance for PBR texturing ZB for sculpting, and the results they get are very cool. When it comes to hand painted they'll use 3DC. The sculpting features are important to keep pace with other apps and its important to plug gaps such as why users want to use Substance over 3DC for PBR related work. Don't get me wrong - whats in 3DC ATM is very good... but having a piece of software that takes on so many other apps in its functionality - ZBrush, Substance, TopoGun etc its important not to take your foot off the gas and push forwards on all fronts.... not to start creating alternative versions, else you'll eventually loose the customers.  I think that's what AbnRanger means?

Precisely. Everytime these offshoots get created, it KILLS development on 3DCoat for long periods of time. Myself and others have patiently waited YEARS for certain features, and have had to make the requests over and over and over and over, just to see someone who probably has never used 3DCoat, jump to the front of the line, with a silly request (IMO). 

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....for all the 3DCoat users who waited for years, to get revamped Paint Layer Masks, you can thank the person who asked Andrew to make a 3D Printing version...instead of simply using the 3D Printing tools that are already in 3DCoat. Sculpt Layers got pushed back all that time, too. Then came a Game Mod tool. Now a Shoe Design version, too? :blink:

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Making them fire is NOT a good decision, guys, just have patience and peacefully tell them that they are not working at the moment. Being a more professional way of sharing, it’s also better for you and developers who can consider your opinion.

I wrote several times that this or that in the program does not work. Absolutely no reaction. And I ask, how can you not kindle it?

 

I wrote that the freezing of the surface does not work when rebuilding the grid, but no one responded, even in the bugs are not recorded. There is no feedback. One may write here as much as necessary, but by the time something changes, in most programs there will be a “make beautiful” button.

 

Andrew threw us all.

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@ Sorda. You are discustingly negative and offensive.
Also I would like a lot of changes in 3D-Coat, but pissing at the developer will not help.
The more **** people are mindlessly throwing at them in this forum the less likely they want to read this.
This forum is here so we can report bugs and (preferably positively or at least neutrally) comment features that got implemented.
So please grow up mentally and think before posting.

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Usually I have cycle - 2 weeks of development, then 2-3 weeks for bugfixing and stability improvements.

Last 2 weeks there was development phase, so I was not reading the discussion. Seems, now I should switch to bugfixing.

And, for really urgent needs I recommend to write me directly to support@gmail.com

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But I truly think that we should separate feature requests from mantis. Mantis is good place for bug reports but for feature request it dosen't work. I like what Mudbox has. They have one big list where you can add feature request and you can easily see what request is the most popular. Something similar here would be nice. It would take away that effect that everybody is sending feature requests to Andrew and soon he has eyes and ears full of them. 

Edited by haikalle
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Hi Andrew. Thanks for correction. It's maybe good to change email into your text you have:

Attention! If I have not answered on your question on your thread please write me to support@3d-coat.com.Sometimes I may loose the thread, so prease continue conversation with me via e-mail if you see silent. 3D-Coat on twitter

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2 hours ago, puntoit said:

@ Sorda. You are discustingly negative and offensive.
Also I would like a lot of changes in 3D-Coat, but pissing at the developer will not help.
The more crap people are mindlessly throwing at them in this forum the less likely they want to read this.
This forum is here so we can report bugs and (preferably positively or at least neutrally) comment features that got implemented.
So please grow up mentally and think before posting. 

Disgusting trifles and puppies who do not understand that people just often do not write negative reviews. When you write over and over about certain problems, politely, in detail, with your wishes, and over and over again you come across a wall of silence and the same bugs that were several versions of programs back, and at the same time you also paid for this program, then suspicions are beginning to creep in, that maybe everyone just doesn’t care about the program and the users, got the money and it’s enough? The situation looks like this for six months, that I am on this forum and during the time that I use the program. Politeness for a tick is needed such as you, who will tolerate, while wiping his feet on him. Leave your withering yourself. I made a choice in favor of this program instead of zbrash in the hope that this is a kind of breakthrough and advanced product. Some time it seemed to me until I saw a bunch of bugs and a lack of reaction from the support.

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2 hours ago, Andrew Shpagin said:

Usually I have cycle - 2 weeks of development, then 2-3 weeks for bugfixing and stability improvements.

Last 2 weeks there was development phase, so I was not reading the discussion. Seems, now I should switch to bugfixing.

And, for really urgent needs I recommend to write me directly to support@gmail.com

I sent you a message to this post about six months ago. No answer was received, and I didn’t wait for it, you are a busy person, like many of us. However, there was a description of just a huge number of mistakes and wishes. Nothing from what I wrote, I did not see in subsequent releases. 

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2 hours ago, Sorda said:

I sent you a message to this post about six months ago. No answer was received, and I didn’t wait for it, you are a busy person, like many of us. However, there was a description of just a huge number of mistakes and wishes. Nothing from what I wrote, I did not see in subsequent releases. 

Please resend me the request. Sometimes I am in trip, sometimes, not often, I may miss the letter. I am trying to answer always (even if I can't do what required).

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9 hours ago, haikalle said:

And that's maybe the reason why develop team got tired to listening :)

That's silly. You and I both know that most requests have to be repeated, such as the Layer Masks request. It was/is a large one and that means it sometimes gets put off for extended periods of time. Andrew even says "You may have to remind me..."  

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9 hours ago, haikalle said:

And that's maybe the reason why develop team got tired to listening :)

...and furthermore, Sculpt Layers was one such request. MANY people repeatedly asked for it....look on Trello and Mantis. Andrew already said he planned to do it. You should see the overwhelmingly positive reaction to Sculpt Layers on the 3DCoat Facebook page. Most popular feature since Smart Materials. If I had not repeatedly asked for it, it would not be in (beta) 3DCoat right now. You were saying? :) 

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I agree that my statement maybe came a little bit strongly and I apologise it. We can thank you for the many features what we have right now in 3D-Coat.  My feelings maybe came like that because I have send some feature requests / bug reports into support  about applink and hasen't got any answer.  I do like to send only one email and trust that it is read by someone.

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When I see "Ask Andrew to implement this"...to me Andrew is just a super hero or at least a badass guy. To face all these softwares outside with such a small team is really impressive =O

By the way, I'm not that familiar with sculpt room but I know it's another powerful part of 3DCoat I have to explore, but to me the most important update since smartmaterials were added is the long range curvature which enables you to do soooo much more than what is possible with a simple or blurred one =)

And I'm always excited when an update comes up, to see what's new or improved !

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16 minutes ago, Vexod14 said:

When I see "Ask Andrew to implement this"...to me Andrew is just a super hero or at least a badass guy. To face all these softwares outside with such a small team is really impressive =O

By the way, I'm not that familiar with sculpt room but I know it's another powerful part of 3DCoat I have to explore, but to me the most important update since smartmaterials were added is the long range curvature which enables you to do soooo much more than what is possible with a simple or blurred one =)

And I'm always excited when an update comes up, to see what's new or improved !

Sculpt Layers is an absolute Game Changer , in 3DCoat, and the way Andrew has implemented it, seems like Magic. There are still missing features, like a Masking feature for it and a "Modulate Depth" Brush (similar in function to the Magnification/Reduction brush in the Paint Room). Once that is done, Sculpt Layers will be far superior in 3DCoat than in ZBrush. How so? Because you can use LiveClay and Booleans (without breaking the Sculpt Layers) + and use Smart Materials (with Depth) while sculpting. Cannot do that in ZBrush or Mudbox.

Bay Raitt (who loves sculpting in 3DCoat and he was the guy who sculpted Gollum in Lord of the Rings) said he is willing to help Andrew fine tune the brushes. With a really extensive library of Procedural Noise types to use with the Noise tool, I think Andrew could win a lot of ZBrush converts with V5. 

 

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41 minutes ago, Sorda said:

Will the plans include a pie menu like in Blender?

Don't know, but you can have Pie Menus right now, if you have a 3DConnexion Device. It comes with radial menus in the software, and I use it all the time in 3DCoat. If you paint or sculpt a lot in 3DCoat, it pays to get one even if it seems to be a bit pricey for the top model. It's something you benefit from every single minute in 3DCoat, and neither ZBrush nor Substance Painter offers it. I think it's the one HUGE advantage 3DCoat has over them. You will wonder how you got by without one, once you get used to it.

 

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7 minutes ago, AbnRanger said:

Don't know, but you can have Pie Menus right now, if you have a 3DConnexion Device. It comes with radial menus in the software, and I use it all the time in 3DCoat. If you paint or sculpt a lot in 3DCoat, it pays to get one even if it seems to be a bit pricey for the top model. It's something you benefit from every single minute in 3DCoat, and neither ZBrush nor Substance Painter offers it. I think it's the one HUGE advantage 3DCoat has over them. You will wonder how you got by without one, once you get used to it.

 

Mouse with price like Zbrush.. nice joke! 

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