Jump to content
3D Coat Forums
Andrew Shpagin

3DCoat 4.8 BETA testing thread

Recommended Posts

6 hours ago, gbball said:

Great addition Andrew.  I will have to try it out.

I hope this means that quad based sculpting is on it's way.

We need 3 layer types in the sculpt room.  Voxel, Surfacemode, and Quadbased with subdivision levels.

How would Quad Based be an improvement? I personally don't think it will help. Everybody is all gaga over the addition of Dynamic Tessellation in ZB 2018, and in Mudbox, even though 3D Coat has had that for years. I don't see the benefit because it's so reliant on proper topology. What does subdivision levels give you that the current Proxy method doesn't? They are different techniques to address the same problem...stepping down to a lower poly version to make large scale changes.

I would just like to have a good implementation of Sculpt layers w/Masking capability. Been waiting forever for that. Speaking of waiting of waiting for Sculpt layers....How in the hell did an inferior Auto-Retopo option get ahead of Sculpt Layers in the Feature Request line? I've been testing it on several different meshes and it isn't anywhere near the quality 3D Coat's algorithm. I'm afraid to show it, now. I thought surely there would be some visible benefit, but I cannot find any.

Whoever asked for that.....

tumblr_ojv090fGqf1v1z098o1_400.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sculpt Quads over Tris has benefits.

- The tris used in correct areas work well, but generate problems in curved surfaces.

- Tris can produce pronounced wrinkles as the mesh is deformed.

- Quads are better for beveling or hard crease borders.

- Tris generated bumpiness very hard to smooth because more edges can join a vertex.

- Tris subdivision are less predictable than quads -test it with a cube-.

 

 

tris.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, AbnRanger said:

How would Quad Based be an improvement? I personally don't think it will help. Everybody is all gaga over the addition of Dynamic Tessellation in ZB 2018, and in Mudbox, even though 3D Coat has had that for years. I don't see the benefit because it's so reliant on proper topology. What does subdivision levels give you that the current Proxy method doesn't? They are different techniques to address the same problem...stepping down to a lower poly version to make large scale changes.

 

1

Quad based because with subdivision levels

  1. ability to reuse productions assets (save time)
  2. You can increase and decrease resolution non-destructively as opposed to resampling
  3. it fits better into a pipeline
  4. better back and forth with retopo room
  5. I think it works in support of sculpt layers.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but in a subdivision workflow don't higher subdivision sculpt states work off stored displacement data?  And isn't image based sculpting the main component of sculpt layers?  I think you kill two birds with one stone here.

Last summer I had to make 5 characters for a short film and I sculpted the first character in 3D coat, then I carefully retopologized it, hoping to be able to reuse the retopo mesh for the other characters so that rigging would have an easier time transferring rig and weights from one character to another.  But the task became very cumbersome, very quickly.  I tried the tools in 3d coat, such as conform to retopo, but that only works with move, transform and pose - plus it's slow...having to show the sculpt with retopo data isn't performant.  Those tools alone aren't enough to recreate a new character.  How much easier it would have been if I could directly manipulate the mesh with the sculpt tools in 3D coat.  The job would have been a lot easier in zbrush, which I don't own.  I tried blender, but the sculpting tools and workflow are a bit limited.  So what I ended up doing was making all my sculpts in 3D Coat, then between 3D Coat and Blender, snapping my original retopo mesh onto the sculpt.  It was a big headache.  Unique sculpts currently require either manual retopology or autotopo.

In 3D coat, the only thing that a quad based mesh is useful for is for unwrapping or texture painting.  If I want to sculpt on it, I'll lose any ability to bring the mesh back into another 3D application with the same topology/UV data/etc.

The workflow currently is far too linear.  Sculpt-->Retopo--->Texture

Quad based sculpting could allow for sculpt<-->retopo-->texture<-->sculpt

What I propose would make the program a lot more production friendly.  Saving studios and artists a lot of time and money.  It would really turbocharge production for big studios and indies alike.

Edited by gbball
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another use of Instant Meshes. Early testing, I could have used more polygons in the original instant mesh, the cut areas would have been finer and also in the final reduced mesh.

IM generally follows hard edges pretty good and the reason for looking at this workflow.

1. Create your Hard Surface retopo mesh using IM. Do some minor cleanup.

2. Export the mesh.

2. Import into Maya Lt and run the reduce polygon routine. You have a number settings.  There are other reduction software available.

3. Import reduced mesh for your retopo mesh in 3DC. IM mesh, 3000 polys-----Retopo mesh, 620 polygons. A few areas to cleanup but not many.

Pictures of first testing to see if this workflow is possible. More testing required but looks promising.

Model not shown for quality but just for early testing.

Capture100.PNG

Edited by digman
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

David , try Houdini ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Michaelgdrs said:

David , try Houdini ;)

Yikes, another node system to learn... :wacko:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What you just showcase is my "fast and dirty" low poly creation , before IM was implemented in 3D Coat officially. 

BUT , not with Maya LT due to the triangulation , i am doing it with Houdini Polyreduce 

 

 

polyreduce.jpg

without_poly_reduce.jpg

 

Do you love nodes now??? lol 3D Coat ---> IM or Retopo ---> Houdini , you just cant go wrong my good friend 

Edited by Michaelgdrs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I chose to have part tris and quads as I could reduce farther down in polygon count using tris and quads. Maya LT has as a all quad parameter in the reduce settings. Here I get the best of both worlds. the cuts keep the detail in quads, the larger parts get the reduce tris... :D 

Lets see I got Blender nodes and Substance Designer nodes... Maybe one day for the heck of it throw in Houdini, then truly I will be in node heaven or the other place. LOL...

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He-he =) Thank you for this! =) Love it =)

So, another question =) Will you plan to integrate SketchRetopo? =) Or you will create another awesome tool to HQ retopology? =)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sketch Retopo Software may be used freely for non-commercial purposes, only.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@artofcharly Preferences > show beta tools   then in retopo room you have the tool Quad Paint,  I believe that is something similar ? (careful to save your work, it seems to crash a lot)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, lesaint said:

@artofcharly Preferences > show beta tools   then in retopo room you have the tool Quad Paint,  I believe that is something similar ? (careful to save your work, it seems to crash a lot)

@lesaint Hm, not the same =) But I hope next time we will have better tool, than SkethRetopo+InstantMeshes+Autotopo + NVil =) he-he =) 

Edited by artofcharly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Carlosan said:

Sketch Retopo Software may be used freely for non-commercial purposes, only.

@Carlosan I meant - integration like as SketchRetopo or Nvil or something better =))

Nvil retopo examples =) 
 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello everyone.

I don't know if there's something wrong with my PC but this latest 4.8.14C crashes every time!!
With 4.8.13 no problem at all!

The crash happens just after I try to create an empty voxel scene from the startup window of 3DC.
Simply I get the generic Windows message "3DC has stopped working..."

What's going on ?
 

Thanks.

Marco (mkdm)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Marco , kindly re download , there is a new build available.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Doing some quick testing with Instant meshes.
It appears that scene scale has to be 1, otherwise the mesh imports at the wrong scale in the retopo room.

Apart from that, I think it's interesting. I tested with rounded edges, the instant mesh result looked like it couldn't work, I even did auto unwrap which never works right with autopo. It all looks very smooth in paint room and render room. I think this could have its uses, when you need something done in two minutes.

Capture2.thumb.PNG.7b007388788173f0bb983d96f10a1ffc.PNGCapture3.thumb.PNG.f0bdb6426e2e6c923c046f7fbbb3b314.PNG

Capture.PNG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, mkdm said:

Hello everyone.

I don't know if there's something wrong with my PC but this latest 4.8.14C crashes every time!!
With 4.8.13 no problem at all!

The crash happens just after I try to create an empty voxel scene from the startup window of 3DC.
Simply I get the generic Windows message "3DC has stopped working..."

What's going on ?
 

Thanks.

Marco (mkdm)

same, and I did redownload the latest build (as of 1PM 4/5/2018)
crash when I selected voxel scene (empty or with model)
---
got it working by uninstalling, then deleting all the folders left behind.

1. delete 3D coat folder from program files
*or 4.8.14# folder if you have multible versions installed

2. delete all 3 3D coat folders from your Documents folder

3. reinstall

now it will open scene
*If your model is red, it's the bug I reported a few weeks ago
*to fix it, right click a shader and click "Select as Default Shader"


 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, lesaint said:

It appears that scene scale has to be 1, otherwise the mesh imports at the wrong scale in the retopo room

Beta: 4.8.14C

This is confirmed from my end as well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Beta version: 4.8.14C

This is a good time to bring up "Retopo via Decimation: 

Scene scale has to be set to 1.00 or the decimated retopo mesh is to large in scale.

In the picture scene scale is set to 50.00 

The sculpt sphere is very tiny compared to the retopo mesh. The retopo mesh when using Retopo via Decimation needs to fit the sculpt room model no matter the scene scale set.

decimation.JPG

Edited by digman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Beta version: 4.8.14C

I just noticed that the transparency of a color map image in a smart material is now supported correctly.

What I mean is that when you apply a color image when using a smart material and you select freeze unpainted or painted pixels after you apply the material it now only selects which one you choose.

Thank for this fixed, is much appreciated.

Edited by digman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/3/2018 at 8:32 PM, Michaelgdrs said:

Great results from Autopo in this build. THANK YOU.

autopo.jpg

autopo_2.jpg

Looks good indeed, but has 3D-Coat's native auto-retopo been improved as well? I thought only the Instant Meshes algorithm was added.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Metin Seven said:

Looks good indeed, but has 3D-Coat's native auto-retopo been improved as well? I thought only the Instant Meshes algorithm was added

Painting Density has been fixed but no specific mention was made of the autopo routine though is is possible it got worked on though we have no direct information the routine was looked at.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's also my impression, but I'd love to know if some fine-tuning has been performed, as I love 3D-Coat's auto-retopo a lot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Metin Seven said:

That's also my impression, but I'd love to know if some fine-tuning has been performed, as I love 3D-Coat's auto-retopo a lot.

No, I think Instant Meshes was added to pick up the slack in the cases where 3D Coat's Auto-Retopo may struggle or fail. It's pretty rare for me, as I've learned how to "dumb-down" the model in order to prep it for the Auto-Retopo. Too many people just throw the everything and the kitchen sink at it and wonder why it fails sometimes. In short, you just need to make things as simple as possible for the algorithm....meaning don't throw an entire space ship or reptilian monster at it...break it down into logical parts or at least use VoxHide hide sections at a time.

If a user is careful in prepping their model, 3D Coat's default Auto-Retopo does a pretty remarkable job.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×