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Andrew Shpagin

3DCoat 4.8 BETA testing thread

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I was testing that. Layers work as global attribute over any Surface model created on Voxeltree.

Suppose you have on VoxTree model 1 and 2

And on LayerTree layer 1 and 2

Can layersculpt on layer 1 over models 1 and 2. Or on Layer1 for model1 and on layer2 for model2. Its your choice.

Still dont know what is better. Global Layer attribute or local Layer by model. *Local will be to sync every layer hierarchy created, to every specific model individually.

 

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Local gives more precision per object,  global gives more freedom to the user to sculpt freely over multiple pieces.  BUT for blendshapes it needs to be local per object. 

Edited by Michaelgdrs

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Global sculpt layers is very interesting.  I didn't even consider that it could apply to multiple sculpt objects.  To be honest I can't say which way would be better.  Global provides a lot more flexibility, but harder to keep track of what's what.

Maybe if sculpt layers are global, then we could achieve something more localized with the addition of 3b files embedded into the voxtree that we can 'dive' into and while inside it, all sculpt layer changes will be local to that 3b file.  Please forgive the next portion, it's just some ideas that I've had before that are starting to come into clearer focus with the addition of sculpt layers.

So here is what I was thinking...

I think it would be great to have the photoshop smart object layers equivalent in the voxtree... .3b files embedded into the voxtree that live alongside the voxel and sculpt objects.  They wouldn't be directly editable like vox/surface objects.  Since they are 3b's they could show objects in their sculpt state (vox/surface mode), retopo state or paint object state.  And they could 'dived' into like a sub-object in illustrator and indicated via UI something like this --  main scene > 3b object 1    in order to keep track of what level you are at in the project.

Further, in addition to Smart Object Layers, I would also propose a Quad mode.

So essentially, 4 Voxtree layer styles in the sculpt room and render room.

Voxel mode - for freeform sculpting/booleans 

Surface mode - for liveclay/remove stretching/booleans

Quad mode (with subdivision stepping and supported sculpting tools) - compatible with the models tab and works with merge tool and curves for placement - even if this mode isn't automatically generated such as surface mode/voxel mode - this mode could support more basic sculpting tools...draw, pinch, inflate, smooth, etc. along with some of the selection and retopo tools - Would also provide a non-destructive means of increasing/decreasing resolution without losing details...would ptex work here? If so, sculpts could be painted in paint room with SculptLayers and Smart Materials then baked later to UVd mesh.  Pin retopo mesh to sculpt is an interesting workaround, but it isn't very efficient (rendering/editing both retopo mesh and sculpt mesh at the same time) and not all the sculpt tools are supported.

Smart Object (not editable outside of transforms) - represents 3b objects - can be non destructively displayed as sculpt mesh/retopo mesh/paint object - compatible with the models tab and works with merge tool and curves for placement - can be destructively converted to quad mode/surface mode/voxel mode for editing (this would only be a destructive step in the the scene you are in.  The instanced .3b file saved to disk would be unaffected)

 

Doing this would open the way for powerful workflows for concept art which 3D Coat is already being used for a lot and also make 3D Coat more production friendly by allowing layout artists to arrange scenes and work on assets in place or referencing in 3b files that other people are working on asynchronously.  Ultimately, the whole scene could be exported non destructively to another application...be it a game engine or 3D animation tool with everything worked out and in place with no duplication of work required.

 

My 2cents...apologies for changing the discussion...just putting this out there for roadmap purposes in case any of these things that you've been thinking of addressing.

 

 

 

Edited by gbball
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Doing some more testing with Sculpt Layers and I'm seriously blown away.  I'm working on a 6m poly sculpt using depth/colour/gloss in the paint room along with an edge condition for more on Convex and it's working beautifully.  This is really incredible.

The fact that curvature maps and ambient occlusion are supported is really incredible.  This is so insane!

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You already have GLOBAL sculpting in the Paint room, and it's been this way from the beginning. If the user wants to confine it to just one object, they can Ghost other volumes, or just name the file accordingly. This is something every user needs to get into the habit of, anyway. I asked Andrew if he could add some kind of identifier on the layers as to whether it was for Vertex Paint or not. Maybe an icon of some sort, and once a user started sculpting or painting on a SCULPT object, it would get that designation....cause after a bake, you will have both sculpt objects and paint objects in the same scene. And sometimes you will have paint layers that belong to the high poly sculpt object.

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Yeah,

 

I suppose it makes sense since vertex painting already worked that way.  As it is...and I know it's very early still, but I think there should be some way to make it local or like you suggest, some way of clarifying to the user what the layer in the paint room is being applied to.

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The new sculpt layers have a lot of potential! Right out of the gate they seem pretty stable, too. I am really enjoying being able to use the Depth Opacity to control how much of the layer adds to the depth. I don't know if it's been mentioned previously in this thread, but it would be cool to be able to change the depth blend mode and have it affect the sculpt layers, too. :)

I'd like to also add my voice to what Artman is saying about retaining the original UVs and vertex order of the original imported mesh in surface sculpt. These two things are very, very important. I guess the flipside is you can also project attributes in another tool, but it doesn't always work the way you expect in every case. So having it just remember this data from the get go would be most welcome.

 

Thanks Andrew for making sculpt layers! It is very cool. :)

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I just made a separate thread for this , when I meant to have posted it here...apologies..

Hi. 

Just trying sculpt layers. Perfect timing for a job Im doing at the moment. Its seems to work great for what I want but when I use the sliders for depth etc  all the menus and tabs flicker on and off as I slide. They stop when I have finished  so no deal breaker really and I know its a first beta . Just wondering why.

Im probably one driver behind on my GPU  gtx1050...win 7

 I tried it last week, it did it then also. And last time  it changed my default shader and turned off my grid. But my shader and grid seem ok this time.

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14 hours ago, Javis said:

Yeah this is happening a lot to me. I am sure it's a bug and hopefully Andrew knows about it. I'm on a dual Xeon, dual 1080 TI, 128GB DDR4, dual monitors (and Cintiq) and Win10.

 

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Hi thanks many up-date. Then one thing I currently can not solve about 4.8.20 (windows 10 and wacom tablet , with Tablet PC option)

I can not edit  pen plessure "taper" at all....  So I reported  it as bug, but I can not confirm, if it only happen about my PC. 

So is there user who have same problem about 4.8.20 (GL64 and DX64) pen taper option? 

Or  I miss some option, which may lock pen taper edit?  I checked almost all option setting ,but I am not user who know well each 3d coat setting.

As for me, I can only add point, but other option not work at all. (can not change Enable Tapering, Can not change Modulate Tapering, and can not drag any point)

like this pic, all option seems locked for me.. (I can only add new point, but can not edit curve at all). 

pentaper.JPG

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11 hours ago, tokikake said:

Hi thanks many up-date. Then one thing I currently can not solve about 4.8.20 (windows 10 and wacom tablet , with Tablet PC option)

I can not edit  pen plessure "taper" at all....  So I reported  it as bug, but I can not confirm, if it only happen about my PC. 

So is there user who have same problem about 4.8.20 (GL64 and DX64) pen taper option? 

Or  I miss some option, which may lock pen taper edit?  I checked almost all option setting ,but I am not user who know well each 3d coat setting.

As for me, I can only add point, but other option not work at all. (can not change Enable Tapering, Can not change Modulate Tapering, and can not drag any point)

like this pic, all option seems locked for me.. (I can only add new point, but can not edit curve at all). 

pentaper.JPG

Try to close the app and restart or try TabletPC instead of WinTab. Microsoft mess things up with their latest Fall Creators Update (or whatever it's called), regarding touch devices

 

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Carlosan thanks you take time to test. I have not downloaded  the SL version. I may test  it because  I can not solve this problem.

Abnranger Yes I thought if it cause this problem. I arealdy saw those tutoriall.  then as I menitoned,, I test with both option (so I set it as  "Tablet PC" for the windows up-date problem.  unfortunately it not work for me. 

 

 

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Thanks,, I finally could use these Tapering option.  it seems UI  layer system problem of 3d coat window.

Because when I change 3d coat window size as maximum, I can edit (check on and off, edit curve etc) and can  check options.

but when I use default window (no maximum), I can not.  I sometimes see strange pane movements (it start slide to left then close all) for 3d coat UI, when i arrange each pane often.   but it usually stop, when I set window as maximum then tried same way. (I did not expect at all, but actually it worked for me)

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I think I've found a possible bug in 3d-coat 4.8.20 SL version.
When I try to drag an object from VoxTree to the Models palette, the 3d-coat generates a black image and a 1kb obj file non-existent.
Could anyone confirm if this error is happening?

image.png.f8b8b1da59ad9389ede9207d5f05beab.png

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It's working! The problem was that I was trying to drag the voxtree layer by the icon without first selecting the layer in voxtree.
If someone happens the same as me. First select the voxtree layer and then drag to the Models palette.

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On 8/10/2018 at 8:30 AM, Taros said:
0002369: Connect tool in retopo room does not work

http://3dcoat.com/mantis/view.php?id=2369

Connect doesn't work that way. It's not a "BRIDGE" tool. I've been asking for one for years, even asked Raul to first start with a simple bridge tool, rather than a fancy, jiggly thingy QuadPaint turned out to be.

 

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17 minutes ago, Taros said:
0002370: QuadStripTool does not support Undo right

http://3dcoat.com/mantis/view.php?id=2370

UNDO of the Quads Strips tool works for me, but it's a deprecated Beta tool, much like QuadPaint. Raul left Pilgway before finalizing both of them, or at least making them useful enough to come out of a Beta state. During the V5 Beta period, Andrew is supposedly going to visit the Retopo room to add some retopo sketch tools that are sort of what QuadPaint and Quadstrips was supposed to be. 

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On 8/10/2018 at 9:14 AM, AbnRanger said:

Connect doesn't work that way. It's not a "BRIDGE" tool. I've been asking for one for years, even asked Raul to first start with a simple bridge tool, rather than a fancy, jiggly thingy QuadPaint turned out to be.

 

Thank you Don for explaining the functionality. Are you so kind and post your comments in the future into the related mantis issue for better documentation? Your explaining will be lost in the forums which I'm shure. And I can close the issue in mantis.

So back to the topic. I have watched the video you posted very carefully. I have really thought very long about for which "situation" this way of using the tools could be good for. But hey. There are several more already existing ways in 3D-Coat to solve such a situation. I understand some people would like to have a way to split multiple edges and keep them as ngons. But why not create an automatic way to connect edges directly, or have a checkbox in the split edges tool to switch an automatic connection?

I guess we see here another situation where a programmer was left alone with an idea and never talked to an experienced 3D-Artist to develop a well proofed concept before starting to code a routine. And we have a lot of good artists here who like to help.

Well, it is very important to have a clever workflow and not just a function collection. Why expand the tools area with more single functions when there is actually no need for?

At this point: Is there any need for mantis? I've posted my issues into mantis to give all people a hint to use the system more. But if there is no use for a bugtracker anymore, then ok. But it would be a bad decision to quit mantis in my opinion. But whatever. I will continue to post my problems in this way in the future.

Best wishes
Chris

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On 8/10/2018 at 9:23 AM, AbnRanger said:

UNDO of the Quads Strips tool works for me, but it's a deprecated Beta tool, much like QuadPaint. Raul left Pilgway before finalizing both of them, or at least making them useful enough to come out of a Beta state. During the V5 Beta period, Andrew is supposedly going to visit the Retopo room to add some retopo sketch tools that are sort of what QuadPaint and Quadstrips was supposed to be. 

Thank you for your answer. In your version you press CTRL-Z once and the strip is removed directly? I have to press Undo several times before something happen.

I think even if a tool is in beta stage, it should be important to collect problems in a system like mantis to find and solve them later, right?

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Is there a detailed documentation for the upcoming "MakeJoints" tool in the Retopo Room with examples for the need of it?

There is a technical descrition here, but I don't understand the origin need for this tool? Or better: "What is it good for?!"

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