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Andrew Shpagin

3DCoat 4.8 BETA testing thread

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Sculpt layer, Paint Layers and... mask layers... must be separate, i agree.

And sculpt layers will be assigned by mesh, not globally ?

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It's so wonderful to try the new version, in the hope that they will fix the old bugs, however I get a "dynamic save", and at the moment when the program crashes, the save begins .... my file flies to nowhere. Thanks a lot to the development team. 

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2 minutes ago, Sorda said:

It's so wonderful to try the new version, in the hope that they will fix the old bugs, however I get a "dynamic save", and at the moment when the program crashes, the save begins .... my file flies to nowhere. Thanks a lot to the development team. 

I have had some issues too with dynamic save. Usually if I wait for while I'm able save my project. I have been working with my old projects so I dont know if this issue is linked only with old 3b files. 

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it is want to Add checkbox in option, "enable\disable dynamic saving". it is very annoying bad innovation in new version. 

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So i deleted this .28 version becouse it so bagged. Try better, Andrew =( 

 

Sh*t. WTF are u doing developments? I saved my project in .28 version but can not open it in .25 version. VERY BIG THANKS - I cant open my file in stable v.25 and want to work in bagged v.28. THANKS. 

Edited by Sorda

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5 hours ago, Sorda said:

So i deleted this .28 version becouse it so bagged. Try better, Andrew =( 

 

Sh*t. WTF are u doing developments? I saved my project in .28 version but can not open it in .25 version. VERY BIG THANKS - I cant open my file in stable v.25 and want to work in bagged v.28. THANKS. 

Because it zips the file. Someone requested this, to preserve file space, and that is the inevitable consequence. That what is desirable for one person, isn't always helpful for the next person.

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...just like someone has convinced Andrew that they need another offshoot of 3DCoat. So, instead of Sculpt Layers being finished and feature complete, it gets put on the back-burner, while pointless development on a Shoe Design version of 3DCoat is being worked on. I do not think all the different versions of 3DCoat is beneficial and I wish people would quit trying to convince Andrew it would be such a great idea if he had a version for 3D Printing, and another for Medical/Dental, and another Game Modding....and now another for shoe design. Good grief. Pilgway is a small company and cannot sustain multiple different versions. Not to mention the fact that it kills actual development of 3DCoat.

If we didn't have all these different versions, we would have a more full-featured Sculpt Layers toolset by now. We would have had a revamped Layer Masking system, Improved Retopo tools, Noise Generator w/ extensive Library, etc.

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But in the end this is his product and his company. I think it's not our place to tell him what direction to take with creating other product. Of course we can make feature requests for 3d-coat and report bugs and that's very important part. But in the end it's Andrew that make final decisions, because he owns this company.

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51 minutes ago, haikalle said:

But in the end this is his product and his company. I think it's not our place to tell him what direction to take with creating other product. Of course we can make feature requests for 3d-coat and report bugs and that's very important part. But in the end it's Andrew that make final decisions, because he owns this company.

I certainly know that. However, these weren't his own ideas. They were initiated by someone selling him on the notion that it would be a GREAT idea to make a special version for this or that. It's important for the rest of us to speak up and say "No, it's not a great idea. It's a bad one....for 3DCoat users. Why? Because all the requests users have been patiently waiting on....for years, in many cases, have been brushed aside in favor of these offshoots, which have proven fruitless thus far. 

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I think Andrew does not read this forum at all and he does not know that there are people who are *******up with the innovations in the program. Again, there is a feeling of complete lack of feedback. The question then is why this forum is at all. With all this, for some reason, a free blender is deprived of a gigantic, enormous heap of problems and departures associated with a particular simple action. There are things that are difficult and difficult to do in Blender, but they are NOT his main features. With the same things that are PRIMARY (namely, polygonal modeling, creating a sweep yv), the blender developers coped with amazing efficiency. Not to mention the huge number of add-ons that make the work in so delightful a program even more convenient and efficient.

A 3d koat ... PAID program, with a huge number of user requests just clog. When people write about certain problems, the answer most often is no. When people write for six years about the fact that there is still no normal tool for adding chamfers, then somehow the desire to use the program disappears even after it has already been bought.

That is why Blender, max, zbrash, know "everything" (from those who are engaged in three-dimensional graphics). About 3d Coat also knows very few people. All because of pofigizma and otstutsviya adequate feedback and driving to correct errors. Instead of fixing a good old one so that it works absolutely stable, they add an even more buggy new one, as a result, the product turns out to be inadequate even in terms of its small price. In 2010, 3d koat would be breakthrough. Now it is felt at the level of 2010, while the rest of the modeling industry is moving forward every six months.

It can be said that I am a whiner, and in general, if everything is so bad, why I am writing here and using this program, however I am writing this in the hope that Andrew will get something going wrong and you need to start listening to users . At least remove a huge pile of old bugs.

 

p.s. sorry for my "perfect" english please. 

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Throwing my 2 cents in:

If I were to go about things I'd focus on the big bugs first (like stop work and fix right now), then finishing up features that were in development already/improvement of features, and lastly adding the extra features wanted. Of those 3 stages listed it could be half a year or longer for just the first stage depending on how bad the bugs are or how much needs fixing but whatever the time period is I feel it would be a necessary pain to get through before jumping the gun and introducing any more new content. I of course love seeing new beta builds with cool new features, however I do understand if we are to get a solid 3D Coat, bugs need to be worked out first before things get more messy. This is not to say with patches new features can come alongside with several bug fixes, just as long as the new stuff is not bringing along with it even more trouble.

I don't know how big the 3D Coat team is or if they can hire a few extra hands but feature creep can definitely become a problem. Setting goals into sprints (these sprints could be several months) could definitely help too. Like for one entire sprint the only work done will be bug fixing, then another for completing features that were half finished, improving present features, and then another adding in new features. Maybe the 3D Coat team just need more organization in what should be worked on or prioritized. Having a visual roadmap and focus can really help the program become more solid and also avoid that pressure the team may feel with all the requests and suggestions they get. The customers will know what is being worked on and when they can expect new features to come down the road. I am in no way judging the 3D Coat team, merely throwing out an idea for the current concern most customers have. Another way for them to decide what new feature should come next is have the community vote on it, the more popular concise features voted upon will have a higher chance of getting focused on first.

3D Coat in its current state is still a great tool. I love it a lot since it can get so much done. I pretty much participate in the betas not becasue I'm looking for the next flaw or a chance to just toss more ideas in, I want the program to become the best it can be. Only way to do that is by using it and experiencing first hand through a workflow. I then see what the program is currently doing great while also what is missing/needs improvement.

Edited by Mystical
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In my opinion, 3DCoat is a powerful and amazing software. All improvements are always welcome BUT you have to let time pass by if you want to be almost 100% sure it's not a bugged feature. That's the same thing with every software or almost (the only one I know I never had an issue with is Akeytsu, but anyway). 3dsMax ? it's probably the most user-script-patched existing software. Maya ? Depending on what you want to do everything is not always functional. You have to DEAL with it. And on my own 3DCoat rarely blocked me on my tasks ( I use it mainly for texturing "low" poly assets, sometimes for UVs and sometimes for rendering ). And above all, it's developed by a small team, which is gorgeously dedicated and talented to me.

Blowing the fire to them is NOT a good solution guys, just be patient enough and tell them peacefully what doesn't work at the moment. While being a more professional way of exchange, it's also better for you and devs who may consider your opinion.

I wish you the best guys

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11 hours ago, Vexod14 said:

In my opinion, 3DCoat is a powerful and amazing software. All improvements are always welcome BUT you have to let time pass by if you want to be almost 100% sure it's not a bugged feature. That's the same thing with every software or almost (the only one I know I never had an issue with is Akeytsu, but anyway). 3dsMax ? it's probably the most user-script-patched existing software. Maya ? Depending on what you want to do everything is not always functional. You have to DEAL with it. And on my own 3DCoat rarely blocked me on my tasks ( I use it mainly for texturing "low" poly assets, sometimes for UVs and sometimes for rendering ). And above all, it's developed by a small team, which is gorgeously dedicated and talented to me.

Blowing the fire to them is NOT a good solution guys, just be patient enough and tell them peacefully what doesn't work at the moment. While being a more professional way of exchange, it's also better for you and devs who may consider your opinion.

I wish you the best guys

I'm frustrated with those who get in Andrew's ear, selling these Blue Sky ideas how a separate version of 3DCoat would be great for this niche or that. Why not just buy 3DCoat and use it for what you need out of it? My goodness, the Non-Commercial version has practically everything the Professional version does, except for a 7 layer and 2k UV map limit. If you need it for 3D Printing, use that. If you need to make some game mods, use that. If you need to design some shoes, use that...unless it is for commercial purposes, in which case you can get it on sale for $280! Why is that so hard to grasp for these people?

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I agree, the development must keep pace with other software such as Substance Painter. It gets polished and small changes added - such as the environment baker, which is great. Sculpt layers adds so much and is a killer feature, pushing 3DC forwards. I work for a games company and I've pushed 3DC, many have adopted it but they still revert to Substance for PBR texturing ZB for sculpting, and the results they get are very cool. When it comes to hand painted they'll use 3DC. The sculpting features are important to keep pace with other apps and its important to plug gaps such as why users want to use Substance over 3DC for PBR related work. Don't get me wrong - whats in 3DC ATM is very good... but having a piece of software that takes on so many other apps in its functionality - ZBrush, Substance, TopoGun etc its important not to take your foot off the gas and push forwards on all fronts.... not to start creating alternative versions, else you'll eventually loose the customers.  I think that's what AbnRanger means?

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5 hours ago, AbnRanger said:

I'm frustrated with those who get in Andrew's ear, selling these Blue Sky ideas how a separate version of 3DCoat would be great for this niche or that. Why not just buy 3DCoat and use it for what you need out of it? My goodness, the Non-Commercial version has practically everything the Professional version does, except for a 7 layer and 2k UV map limit. If you need it for 3D Printing, use that. If you need to make some game mods, use that. If you need to design some shoes, use that...unless it is for commercial purposes, in which case you can get it on sale for $280! Why is that so hard to grasp for these people?

I don't understand that either.  It's a bit like refusing to buy a hammer because it has a claw on the end and you don't want to pull nails.

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54 minutes ago, insignet said:

I agree, the development must keep pace with other software such as Substance Painter. It gets polished and small changes added - such as the environment baker, which is great. Sculpt layers adds so much and is a killer feature, pushing 3DC forwards. I work for a games company and I've pushed 3DC, many have adopted it but they still revert to Substance for PBR texturing ZB for sculpting, and the results they get are very cool. When it comes to hand painted they'll use 3DC. The sculpting features are important to keep pace with other apps and its important to plug gaps such as why users want to use Substance over 3DC for PBR related work. Don't get me wrong - whats in 3DC ATM is very good... but having a piece of software that takes on so many other apps in its functionality - ZBrush, Substance, TopoGun etc its important not to take your foot off the gas and push forwards on all fronts.... not to start creating alternative versions, else you'll eventually loose the customers.  I think that's what AbnRanger means?

Precisely. Everytime these offshoots get created, it KILLS development on 3DCoat for long periods of time. Myself and others have patiently waited YEARS for certain features, and have had to make the requests over and over and over and over, just to see someone who probably has never used 3DCoat, jump to the front of the line, with a silly request (IMO). 

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....for all the 3DCoat users who waited for years, to get revamped Paint Layer Masks, you can thank the person who asked Andrew to make a 3D Printing version...instead of simply using the 3D Printing tools that are already in 3DCoat. Sculpt Layers got pushed back all that time, too. Then came a Game Mod tool. Now a Shoe Design version, too? :blink:

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Making them fire is NOT a good decision, guys, just have patience and peacefully tell them that they are not working at the moment. Being a more professional way of sharing, it’s also better for you and developers who can consider your opinion.

I wrote several times that this or that in the program does not work. Absolutely no reaction. And I ask, how can you not kindle it?

 

I wrote that the freezing of the surface does not work when rebuilding the grid, but no one responded, even in the bugs are not recorded. There is no feedback. One may write here as much as necessary, but by the time something changes, in most programs there will be a “make beautiful” button.

 

Andrew threw us all.

Edited by Sorda

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@ Sorda. You are discustingly negative and offensive.
Also I would like a lot of changes in 3D-Coat, but pissing at the developer will not help.
The more **** people are mindlessly throwing at them in this forum the less likely they want to read this.
This forum is here so we can report bugs and (preferably positively or at least neutrally) comment features that got implemented.
So please grow up mentally and think before posting.

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Usually I have cycle - 2 weeks of development, then 2-3 weeks for bugfixing and stability improvements.

Last 2 weeks there was development phase, so I was not reading the discussion. Seems, now I should switch to bugfixing.

And, for really urgent needs I recommend to write me directly to support@gmail.com

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2 hours ago, AbnRanger said:

.... and have had to make the requests over and over and over and over...

And that's maybe the reason why develop team got tired to listening :)

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But I truly think that we should separate feature requests from mantis. Mantis is good place for bug reports but for feature request it dosen't work. I like what Mudbox has. They have one big list where you can add feature request and you can easily see what request is the most popular. Something similar here would be nice. It would take away that effect that everybody is sending feature requests to Andrew and soon he has eyes and ears full of them. 

Edited by haikalle
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