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"Delete Child layer bug"

Can someone conform this bug please? Found in v4.8.20.

Reproduce steps:

1. Start with a scene in voxel room.

2. Create a layer with a voxel object (layer A).

3. Create a empty voxel layer (Layer B).

4. Make the voxel layer (Layer A ) be the CHILD of the empty voxel layer B object.
Layer B (empty layer)
  Layer A (object layer)

5. Delete Layer A (voxel object).

6. Press UNDO.

-> No undo possible, object layer A is forever gone...

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4 minutes ago, Taros said:

"Delete Child layer bug"

Can someone conform this bug please? Found in v4.8.20.

Reproduce steps:

1. Start with a scene in voxel room.

2. Create a layer with a voxel object (layer A).

3. Create a empty voxel layer (Layer B).

4. Make the voxel layer (Layer A ) be the CHILD of the empty voxel layer B object.
Layer B (empty layer)
  Layer A (object layer)

5. Delete Layer A (voxel object).

6. Press UNDO.

-> No undo possible, object layer A is forever gone...

Create a new action. (for example use sphere tool and draw a stroke in the empty layer).
Then, UNDO twice : Object layer A is back

(It is the same for many things in 3d Coat, when you can't undo, try this)

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2 hours ago, Carlosan said:

Yes, that bug was confirmed on version 4.8.20 and solved on latest versions.

Thank you Carlos. You are right. The bug is fixed in v4.8.23.

At the moment I'm not using the beta for my projects anymore because of instability.

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2 hours ago, lesaint said:

Create a new action. (for example use sphere tool and draw a stroke in the empty layer).
Then, UNDO twice : Object layer A is back

(It is the same for many things in 3d Coat, when you can't undo, try this)

Thank you. Unfortunately doesn't work here. (v4.8.20)

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3 hours ago, lesaint said:

Will sculpt layers eventually work with live clay tools ?

Also will there be an icon or something to indicate when a layer contains sculpt information as opposed to just regular painting information ?

 

I wish Andrew would make ALL paint layers expand to show content for each channel, much like layers in Smart Materials show the different channels and associated maps. When collapsed, show the little Depth, Color, Gloss icons when any pixel data is present on those. So, for example, if only DEPTH has been applied to a layer, it should have only the Depth icon visible. 

Vertex Paint/Sculpt Layers should have some kind of visual indicator, that makes it easy to differentiate between layers for PAINT (low poly-UV mapped) OBJECTS, and SCULPT (Vertex paint) OBJECTS. Perhaps a brighter color for Vertex Paint/Sculpt layers, or highlighted border, etc + a small letter box in the upper left corner, with the capital letter P (for Paint Object) or S (for Sculpt Object). I asked Andrew recently about doing something like this. He agreed it needed to be done, but others will have to ask for it, to get some movement on it. 

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What about the Thickening of surface objects when you attempt to bake with normal map from the retopo room ? Is that supposed to be a feature or is it a known bug ? Is it fixed in the next release ?

 

And is "click gizmo + hit space bar" going to be the only way to rotate with transform tool from now on ?

Edited by lesaint
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24.10.2018 4.8.25

- Fixed baking issue from the surface mode (critical one, multiple shells was created in 23 build)

- Booleans in surface mode - more stable and faster. Soft booleans!

- rotate/scale buttons in transform tool.

- Generally faster brushing in surface mode because of faster picking algorithm.

- Renaming any layer to 2+2 will name it not 4 but 2+2

- The removed redundant offer of old-style occlusion baking.

- Pose tool multi-symmetry correct support

- The removed invisible close icon in UI that was leading to unexpected windows closing.

- New import option - sharp edges over seams

- Add joints manually in Joints tool

- Custom gamma correction in the viewport for different monitors support, look Preferences

- Better UI for export dialog.

- Multiple stability improvements, UI related bugs fixed.

Curves changes:

- You may display chunks length, double-click over the number will change it to the given value.

- Partial extrude, selected points only.

- Possibility to display length of chunks between sharp points (in curve RMB settings), double-click on the value will change the length without affecting neighbor lengths.

SculptLayers version:

  • Important improvement! Much less memory consumption for per-pixel painting. Stiil requires some testing if nothing is broken in PPP.

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Thanks for the great update. Couple suggestion for UI improments.

1. Noise tool. We could remove "Apply realtime" checkbox. When you select noise tool it should show realtime the changes and then press apply button if user wants to apply changes into mesh.

2. warp and axial tool if I leave the tool 3d-coat asks "You have not applied axial transformation..." This is not needed. If I leave tool it means that I don't want to apply it. 

Edited by haikalle
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Sculpt layer version:

If Remove stretching is = on 

The geometry changed on any tool is stored on correspond Layer, but geometry added with option remove stretching is stored on Layer0.

If you switch all layers but Layer0 = off, any geometry changed when remove stretching is = on keeps in the original mesh on Layer0 as garbage.

 

//edit

Remove.jpg

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4 hours ago, haikalle said:

Thanks for the great update. Couple suggestion for UI improments.

1. Noise tool. We could remove "Apply realtime" checkbox. When you select noise tool it should show realtime the changes and then press apply button if user wants to apply changes into mesh.

2. warp and axial tool if I leave the tool 3d-coat asks "You have not applied axial transformation..." This is not needed. If I leave tool it means that I don't want to apply it. 

1) Sometimes performance can be a bit unwieldy when using realtime, that's why it's optional. Please don't ask Andrew to remove options others may find necessary. This forces him to have to do twice the work, that could be applied elsewhere, like finishing Sculpt Layers. There are still a LOT of things that need to be added, yet I'm seeing a lot of smaller requests taking the place of continued development of this key feature.

2) Again, it may seem more convenient to you, to remove what you think is redundant, but that reminder is there for a reason, just like the Import tool. A person could accidentally hit a hotkey that selects another tool...and now they are mad cause they lost all those steps. 

I understand where you are coming from and they do make sense for some users, but removing them can be frustrating and aggravating for others...like the removal of the ROTATE buttons in the Transform tool options. Somebody probably asked him to "clean the UI up by removing redundant buttons." All that did is make people like me, aggravated because I always use those buttons. 

Rather than taking things away, we need to add some things to streamline the UI...such as adding the Proxy Slider to the bottom of the VoxTree Panel. It seems disjointed and out of place in a separate panel, not to mention, like the (Sculpt) LAYERS panel, it's not in the default (Sculpt room) UI so few new users will know it's available to use. We also need folders/subfolders for the Preset Panel....BADLY...as in yesterday! I also asked for Tool Grouping of Surface mode Brushes, like you see in Photoshop's Tool Panel. That way Mud and Mud2 for example, aren't wasting space with 2 buttons. They can be grouped into one, with a little triangle in the lower right corner of the button, to invoke a fly-out menu.

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3 hours ago, Carlosan said:

Sculpt layer version:

If Remove stretching is = on 

The geometry changed on any tool is stored on correspond Layer, but geometry added with option remove stretching is stored on Layer0.

If you switch all layers but Layer0 = off, any geometry changed when remove stretching is = on keeps in the original mesh on Layer0 as garbage.

I can't find the "remove stretching" option, but that is EXACTLY what happens when you try to use live clay tools on the layers, that is why I thought It just didn't work with live clay tools, does it ?

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10 minutes ago, lesaint said:

I can't find the "remove stretching" option, but that is EXACTLY what happens when you try to use live clay tools on the layers, that is why I thought It just didn't work with live clay tools, does it ?

Yes. Yes we can! :D

 

 

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On 10/24/2018 at 9:21 PM, AbnRanger said:

1) Sometimes performance can be a bit unwieldy when using realtime, that's why it's optional. Please don't ask Andrew to remove options others may find necessary. This forces him to have to do twice the work, that could be applied elsewhere, like finishing Sculpt Layers. There are still a LOT of things that need to be added, yet I'm seeing a lot of smaller requests taking the place of continued development of this key feature.

2) Again, it may seem more convenient to you, to remove what you think is redundant, but that reminder is there for a reason, just like the Import tool. A person could accidentally hit a hotkey that selects another tool...and now they are mad cause they lost all those steps. 

I understand where you are coming from and they do make sense for some users, but removing them can be frustrating and aggravating for others...like the removal of the ROTATE buttons in the Transform tool options. Somebody probably asked him to "clean the UI up by removing redundant buttons." All that did is make people like me, aggravated because I always use those buttons. 

Rather than taking things away, we need to add some things to streamline the UI...such as adding the Proxy Slider to the bottom of the VoxTree Panel. It seems disjointed and out of place in a separate panel, not to mention, like the (Sculpt) LAYERS panel, it's not in the default (Sculpt room) UI so few new users will know it's available to use. We also need folders/subfolders for the Preset Panel....BADLY...as in yesterday! I also asked for Tool Grouping of Surface mode Brushes, like you see in Photoshop's Tool Panel. That way Mud and Mud2 for example, aren't wasting space with 2 buttons. They can be grouped into one, with a little triangle in the lower right corner of the button, to invoke a fly-out menu.

Thanks for giving a feedback. Here is my thoughts about this 

1) So could we change "Apply realtime" to "show realtime"? The problem right now is that if I just want to see preview and not apply it. If I have turned "Apply realtime" and leave the tool it will apply the noise. I don't think this is the best way.
For my thinking if feels odd if someone wants adjust noise curve and don't want to see preview.

2) I'm a little bit scared if we want to make UI on idea: "A person could accidentally hit a hotkey that selects another tool" We should make the program that has logical behaviour and for me is that if I leave from the tool it means I don't
want to apply it. I really don't understand why this logic is odd for someone.  What about curve tool, should we add window there too? If you leave accidentally from warp and axial tool, what steps are lost? If you go back into tool it remembers
where you left before. 

 

Edited by haikalle
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While the UI is being worked on, I wish some of these things would be considered :

* A Search box for smart materials

* Retopo room : 
Retopo Menu > Import Sculpt mesh as retopo 

Retopo Menu > Triangulate mesh

* Allow showing Sculpt mesh and/or Retopo mesh in Tweak room

 

 

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19 hours ago, lesaint said:

While the UI is being worked on, I wish some of these things would be considered :

* A Search box for smart materials

* Retopo room : 
Retopo Menu > Import Sculpt mesh as retopo 

Retopo Menu > Triangulate mesh

* Allow showing Sculpt mesh and/or Retopo mesh in Tweak room

 

 

Yeah, the RMB menu for Smart Materials really needs to be cleaned up. I have to RMB the thumbnail and move my cursor all the way to the top of the UI just to click "Smart Material Editor." That needs to be changed. Just put a little icon in the corner of each thumbnail, to open the editor, and remove all the material folders from the RMB menu. You already have easy/quick access to them at the top of the panel. They take up so much real estate in the RMB menu, and force the user to waste time and effort to get to the SM Editor or to fill Entire layer.

As for the "Import Sculpt Mesh to Retopo," I asked Andrew to add that to the Geometry menu, because there is already one for RETOPO TO SCULPT MESH and PAINT MESH TO SCULPT MESH. Right now, the feature to do that, is in 3DCoat...just not where you would expect it to be. It's in the RMB menu of the VoxTree Panel. Select a layer > RMB > RETOPO VIA DECIMATION > Set Decimation value to 0. Done.

The last one, I doubt Andrew will do anything with the Tweak Room, as he has long planned to deprecate it. Shame. It's still very useful, if he'd make a few changes/improvements.

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3 hours ago, AbnRanger said:

Yeah, the RMB menu for Smart Materials really needs to be cleaned up. I have to RMB the thumbnail and move my cursor all the way to the top of the UI just to click "Smart Material Editor." That needs to be changed. Just put a little icon in the corner of each thumbnail, to open the editor, and remove all the material folders from the RMB menu. You already have easy/quick access to them at the top of the panel. They take up so much real estate in the RMB menu, and force the user to waste time and effort to get to the SM Editor or to fill Entire layer.

As for the "Import Sculpt Mesh to Retopo," I asked Andrew to add that to the Geometry menu, because there is already one for RETOPO TO SCULPT MESH and PAINT MESH TO SCULPT MESH. Right now, the feature to do that, is in 3DCoat...just not where you would expect it to be. It's in the RMB menu of the VoxTree Panel. Select a layer > RMB > RETOPO VIA DECIMATION > Set Decimation value to 0. Done.

The last one, I doubt Andrew will do anything with the Tweak Room, as he has long planned to deprecate it. Shame. It's still very useful, if he'd make a few changes/improvements.

1. I have a moment of hesitation before I create a new smart material, because I know that is going to add to the clutter. A search box would be a great help.
Also, I think new materials should not land in the default folder, but in a temporary folder instead, one that would get wiped when you close 3dc. 
That way you could create smart materials without having second thoughts, and if you think you will reuse it, then you move it to another folder.
On Discord, A user from the early days was wondering how to import an image to paint with as a "material" like it used to be. It turned out he had to create a Smart material to make it work like he was used to. It seems a bit overkill to now have to create a smart material for that, when you know that you are only going to use it just the once.

2. Awesome, thank you for revealing the very hidden feature, I never thought of doing that ! But yes, it would belong either in the Geometry menu of the Sculpt room, or the retopo menu of the Retopo room. By the way "paint mesh to sculpt mesh" was recently, and strangely renamed "Take mesh from paint room"

I go back and forth between room with my mesh a lot to do various tasks...

3. When I make an avatar or a piece of clothing that has to go over an existing character, I need to make sure the latter is not going to poke through, that is why I need to triangulate. I can do most of the adjusting in the retopo room, with the help of the result baked multiple times to the paint room, and the reference character in a vox layer with a very visible shader.
However, I never manage to spot every bit of geometry that pokes through that way. I still notice a few at the painting stage, hence the need for the tweak room, except that what I do there I have to do blind, because only the paint mesh shows up there.
If it were possible to show the sculpt mesh in the Tweak room, I would use it a lot more.
It would be a shame to see it go.

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Tested the latest build and i noticed when working on large scene with many layers the ui shortcuts (keyboard)got laggish. If i click on the tool icons i get faster from tool to tool than switching  with  keyboard. Also the undo is very laggish even all layers are closed.

Seems like every operation i do is affecting my entire scene. 

Again this is for large scenes but with "closed" layers. 

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20 minutes ago, micro26 said:

Tested the latest build and i noticed when working on large scene with many layers the ui shortcuts (keyboard)got laggish. If i click on the tool icons i get faster from tool to tool than switching  with  keyboard. Also the undo is very laggish even all layers are closed.

Seems like every operation i do is affecting my entire scene. 

Again this is for large scenes but with "closed" layers. 

That's something you should send to support@3dcoat.com, so Andrew could look into it. He's not going to see every problem or feature request here, as he only drops in from time to time. Plus, he would probably need to ask for some specifics. 

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Is there a reason why in the current version the "Merge Visible" function is much slower? Tried to merge some layers to a 32x voxel layer. No chance. Waited some minutes and closed the windows task then.

In v4.8.20 same scene were managed in some seconds.

By the way:
Thank you for fixing the Preset saving bug I mentioned some days before but there is still a small issue there:
I have to click twice to get the right background stencil (camera projection texture) size. This problem existed already before.

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Bug found in version 4.8.25

Sculpt area: "Deleting multiple layers - Bug"

How to reproduce:

1. VoxTree: Mark multiple layers (three or more).

2. Click on the trashcan icon in the bottom menu of the vox tree.

-> The first selected layer will be deleted only.

-> What should happen: All selected layers should be deleted.

If you are using the RMB menu instead all works and the selected layers will be deleted completely.

Please fix this. Thank you.

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