3DCoat 4.8 BETA testing thread

[Andrew Shpagin]

9 hours ago, Sorda said:

 

It are very different things - to fix bug that arises rarely randomly and to fix something that may be reproduced.

All what I was able to reproduce from this video I fixed (Undo bug). See my comment under the video. 

[Taros]

9 hours ago, animk said:

Yeah, in voxel sculpting even though I've never used "To Uniform Space", not every undo but it happens very often.  Hitting undo again brings object back to previous normal stage.  I have to hit "to Globle space" so the next few undos wouldn't break the object.  For the time being I assign a hotkey to  "to Globle space" and constantly hitting it in voxel mode to prevent this.

BUG reproduced and confirmed here in version 4.8.37, too.

[Oleg_Shapo]

12 hours ago, animk said:

It doesn't do anything by changing the point connection type.  Is it possible to add a radial scale control for selected point to future build?

I assign the radius of each point and have no difficulty with this.

Try changing the Polygons Density setting.

[animk]

2 hours ago, Taros said:

12 hours ago, animk said:

Yeah, in voxel sculpting even though I've never used "To Uniform Space", not every undo but it happens very often.  Hitting undo again brings object back to previous normal stage.  I have to hit "to Globle space" so the next few undos wouldn't break the object.  For the time being I assign a hotkey to  "to Globle space" and constantly hitting it in voxel mode to prevent this.

BUG reproduced and confirmed here in version 4.8.37, too.

Sorry for my mistake, "to Globle space" doesn't prevent this bug, it actually triggers the bug.  I don't know why I thought that way.  Maybe my sculpting habit confuses myself.

[Taros]

Feature request

Cycles render engine support: http://3dcoat.com/mantis/view.php?id=2433

[Taros]

Bug report

Activating "File->New" doesn't reset layer amount to default: http://3dcoat.com/mantis/view.php?id=2434

[animk]

38 minutes ago, Oleg_Shapo said:

I assign the radius of each point and have no difficulty with this.

Try changing the Polygons Density setting.

Thanks a lot, that solved my problem, I can also assign radius to selected points by unchecking the "lock radius" 

[animk]

12 minutes ago, Taros said:

Feature request

Cycles render engine support: http://3dcoat.com/mantis/view.php?id=2433

EEvee is great, too. It's real time or almost real time.   I always render my sculpt in eevee, but need to decimate my sculpt before importing to blender, because it takes blender forever to import a large file.

[Carlosan]

Support for more render engines always will be great.

Cycles is slow and very noisy. Keyshot use Luxion and is fast and accurate. Substance Painter, Daz use Iray.

Before adopting a render engine, the problem for 3DC is how the selection of shaders is manufactured to be easily interchangeable with other render engines.

That's why ZBrush has an internal render and a bridge -applink- to Keyshot to send geometry and add shaders from a library of prefabricated materials.

Cycles -for what I know- does not have a mat library.

Radeon Pro render is what comes closest to Keyshot, with material library and hybrid acceleration by CPU/GPU. And it's free.

[tokikake]

I may hope to use cycles for most of  final render, but I understand render engine is not matter when it can adapt PBR workflow basic.

after all we often need to adjust material for each render engine.  One thing I really hope to see is refraction with ior. (not just alpha opacity)

I do not hope it becom too complex, (eg Iray offer thin wall option too, it is really convinient, but to convert the mat, it cause dififculity for another render engine)

but we may need "refraction weight (which can use to separate non refraction part ), and ior setting,  and refraction color map. (sometimes base colror or alberto color are used for the purpose too)

how use these map to show refraction (or semi- refraction if need) is different about each render enginne and shader(nodes), but priciple is almost same.though I know, use refraction with ior cost heavy resource  too.  so do not need high quarity, but clear separate refraction part with applied texture (for glass) in 3d coat.

 

 

 

[Lahoreh]

Because Cycles was not doing good with caustics and refraction, I used LuxCoreRender.
It's much much easier to use than Cycles and RadeonPro Render with much of the needed features (Denoiser, hybrid acceleration CPU/GPU...).
It's very well integrated in Blender (Plugin for 2.8 in the way) and they also plan to add a material library. The results are very very accurate with the proper settings!

For powerful but easy rendering LuxCoreRender seems to be a very nice tool but I don't know how well it would work with 3D Coat?

[bocs]

@Carlosan

Radeon ProRender may have some licensing issues?
Step 2 says "sign a Radeon™ ProRender Commercial Software Licensing Agreement"
Have not looked into the details, but ProRender seems nice and cross platform.

Now for Cycles and Lux, I integrated them into unity over 3 years ago. 
https://bit.ly/2UIZSt3

both are fairly easy to integrate, send mesh and shader/texture data...render to memory buffer, display
converting shaders is not that hard with PBR, they are "physically based" which is kinda universal.

any path tracer will be noisy (cycles), but just as example...32 samples (a few seconds) with my unity plugin using optix 

Edited April 10, 2019 by bocs

[animk]

I do high resolution sculpt, vertex paint it, then render.  Keyshot doesn't seem to support vertex color.  Right now I am stuck with 3d coat internal render, unless I retopo/uv so I can render it in blender's eevee. 

[AbnRanger]

3 hours ago, animk said:

I do high resolution sculpt, vertex paint it, then render.  Keyshot doesn't seem to support vertex color.  Right now I am stuck with 3d coat internal render, unless I retopo/uv so I can render it in blender's eevee. 

To be honest, I think you would find it to be a better alternative to use Instant Meshes to create a fast and good looking mesh to bake to. In the Retopo Room, you can choose Auto-Seams > Unwrap and then bake. That would probably deliver the best results without having to spend a bunch of time in Retopo or UV's.

 

[AbnRanger]

This should help explain the Baking process. The finished result will land in the Paint Workspace, ready to export with any baked texture maps.

[animk]

1 hour ago, AbnRanger said:

This should help explain the Baking process. The finished result will land in the Paint Workspace, ready to export with any baked texture maps.

Thanks, I will take a look and do a test on it.

Edited April 11, 2019 by animk

[tokikake]

I have never tried SL version because there were too many things I need to learn, and afraid it may often clash etc,,  (the discription of Andrew ^^;)

But I recently see 3d coat training video about SL version,, and am interested much,,

 then is there demerit to use beta SL compare with non SL beta ? (I  use beta version most of case,  because I do not need to make product. and hope to use new future, like new spline tools etc,,) ?  eg it is more often shut down ,etc? 

 

[AbnRanger]

1 hour ago, tokikake said:

I have never tried SL version because there were too many things I need to learn, and afraid it may often clash etc,,  (the discription of Andrew ^^;)

But I recently see 3d coat training video about SL version,, and am interested much,,

 then is there demerit to use beta SL compare with non SL beta ? (I  use beta version most of case,  because I do not need to make product. and hope to use new future, like new spline tools etc,,) ?  eg it is more often shut down ,etc? 

 

All the SL versions are Beta, until there is a major release. Andrew may deem a build "Stable" usually after he's spent some time bug fixing, so that there are stable builds available every few months or so. The latest builds seem pretty stable when using Sculpt Layers.

[tokikake]

29 minutes ago, AbnRanger said:

All the SL versions are Beta, until there is a major release. Andrew may deem a build "Stable" usually after he's spent some time bug fixing, so that there are stable builds available every few months or so. The latest builds seem pretty stable when using Sculpt Layers.

Thanks now I download SL version first time, then see how Sculpt layer work ^^ if it already work  as same as current non SL beta, 4.8.37 about other tools . there seems no meaning keep both beta version.. 

[stusutcliffe]

11 hours ago, animk said:

I do high resolution sculpt, vertex paint it, then render.  Keyshot doesn't seem to support vertex color.  Right now I am stuck with 3d coat internal render, unless I retopo/uv so I can render it in blender's eevee. 

I thought Keyshot did, I guess I am mistaken.( I thought you could send straight from zbrush to Keyshot with polypaint.)

I use Marmoset Toolbag  , it has vertex paint support, its not that expensive and they have 30 % off every now and again.

When I import to Marmoset, the specular is defaulted to 1 which makes the vertex colours 100 percent reflective so it looks like its not working, so you have to bring the slider back down to 0 for the colours to appear. 

Maybe Keyshot does a similar thing.

[animk]

10 hours ago, stusutcliffe said:

I thought Keyshot did, I guess I am mistaken.( I thought you could send straight from zbrush to Keyshot with polypaint.)

I use Marmoset Toolbag  , it has vertex paint support, its not that expensive and they have 30 % off every now and again.

When I import to Marmoset, the specular is defaulted to 1 which makes the vertex colours 100 percent reflective so it looks like its not working, so you have to bring the slider back down to 0 for the colours to appear. 

Maybe Keyshot does a similar thing.

Thanks, I googled vertex color keyshot, it looks like keyshot supports vertex color from zbrush only, I could be wrong.  

Finally found a solution.  I duplicate and decimate a higher res painted mesh, then add resolution (by using add detail smooth method) back to decimated mesh on where detail paintings are needed.  

Using reproject tool (SL version) to re-project mesh detail and vertex color back to decimated mesh.  

It's way easier than retopo/UV and keep most of the details on a much smaller size mesh.

Edited April 11, 2019 by animk

[stusutcliffe]

So are you still rendering in 3dcoat? Im not quite sure im following this ...are you back to where you started from but just with a smaller mesh, if so I am curious to know how big your original mesh was. I think Ive managed about 20-25 million and still managed to render in 3dCoat. ( Marmoset will just about manage this also.)

( a side note... I've exported a vertex painted mesh via FBX to Zbrush and it opened perfectly!  I dont see why Keyshot would be just ZB centric.......Disclaimer-- Not an expert! )

Glad you found a solution!

11 hours ago, animk said:

Thanks, I googled vertex color keyshot, it looks like keyshot supports vertex color from zbrush only, I could be wrong.  

Finally found a solution.  I duplicate and decimate a higher res painted mesh, then add resolution (by using add detail smooth method) back to decimated mesh on where detail paintings are needed.  

Using reproject tool (SL version) to re-project mesh detail and vertex color back to decimated mesh.  

It's way easier than retopo/UV and keep most of the details on a much smaller size mesh.

 

[tokikake]

Is it already reproted? 

When use curve tools and select the curve, then move with GIzmo, even though I input value for x,y,z it not reflect current curve postion.

1. activate curve tool

2. select curve then use "transform" from curve menu.

3 with check on,  move only gizmo , then To center mass to locate pivot on the curve center.

4  check off move only gizmo, then transform curve . but if I input value, gizmo only move the postion,,

[animk]

11 hours ago, stusutcliffe said:

So are you still rendering in 3dcoat? Im not quite sure im following this ...are you back to where you started from but just with a smaller mesh, if so I am curious to know how big your original mesh was. I think Ive managed about 20-25 million and still managed to render in 3dCoat. ( Marmoset will just about manage this also.)

( a side note... I've exported a vertex painted mesh via FBX to Zbrush and it opened perfectly!  I dont see why Keyshot would be just ZB centric.......Disclaimer-- Not an expert! )

Glad you found a solution!

 

I am not rendering in 3d coat.  I export the decimated meshes about 4 million tris  to blender,  it's a little slow but workable.

From keyshot manual "The Vertex Color texture is used only with geometry imported from other 3D applications that supports vertex color texture maps. Do not use this texture if you are not importing from a compatible 3D application as it will have no affect."

It looks like keyshot supports object with vertex color sent from other applications (through plugins), I guess it doesn't support vertex color from imported mesh. So I was wrong about keyshot on supporting zbrush only. 

Thanks for the follow up!

Edited April 12, 2019 by animk

[stusutcliffe]

Good info to know, I shall have to try it and compare eevee to marmoset.

 

Edit. On second thoughts , just had a look...way out of my depth with that, I will stick with Toolbag its really basic.

Edited April 12, 2019 by stusutcliffe
added

[animk]

3 hours ago, stusutcliffe said:

Good info to know, I shall have to try it and compare eevee to marmoset.

 

Edit. On second thoughts , just had a look...way out of my depth with that, I will stick with Toolbag its really basic.

I said earlier about decimating meshes to 40 million tris, I edited to 4 million, sadly blender's performance is just not that strong.

[AbnRanger]

3 hours ago, animk said:

I said earlier about decimating meshes to 40 million tris, I edited to 4 million, sadly blender's performance is just not that strong.

I think you'll get better results if you try the Auto-Retopo (Instant Meshes option is really sturdy and reliable) > Auto UV > Bake route. It should only take a couple of minutes, tops.

[animk]

2 hours ago, AbnRanger said:

I think you'll get better results if you try the Auto-Retopo (Instant Meshes option is really sturdy and reliable) > Auto UV > Bake route. It should only take a couple of minutes, tops.

I tried this method, small details are still missing.  Baking with normal or displacement doesn't give good result.   It works for hard surface and big shapes.

[AbnRanger]

21 minutes ago, animk said:

I tried this method, small details are still missing.  Baking with normal or displacement doesn't give good result.   It works for hard surface and big shapes.

When you say "doesn't give good results," do you mean the displacement in the (Paint Room) viewport doesn't show properly? If that is the case,  you can go to the bottom of the VIEW menu and click ADJUST TESSELLATION and increase the subpatch levels. That will help a lot. Otherwise, I'd be curious to see a screen recording showing the poor results...to help determine if we either need to make some adjustments or if Andrew needs to fix something.

[stusutcliffe]

I did a few models with "Retopo via Decimation" a while back ,that worked great .