Chainmail or quilted clothing sculpt techniques ?

[Mihu83]

Hi,

Is there any good and quick way too make chainmail or quilted clothing on high poly model in 3DC?

With chainmail, it doesn't need to be separate mesh(it would be good but it doesn't need to be), proper extrusion on solid surface will do.

I've tried brush alphas but I can't get even distribution over mesh and also a lot o overlapping.

I've also tried stencils with different projections and got semi good results with cube mapping but the problem is... with cube mapping I either don't get stencil preview or preview is screwed(too small or too big), not looking the same as extruted chainmail on mesh. With this aproach I also get stretched chainmail pattern in some places( not so good projection) and some alpha overlapping.

[Carlosan]

Hello 

Hope this help

&

Another workflow

[Mihu83]

Well, I meant sculpting technique in 3DC. I don't use any other software right now, I work only with high poly models, no retopo, no uv's, etc.

I have couple of shaders that are faking chainmail(texture + normal map), but I would like to make something better looking, something like attached image. It came relatively good on chest, but there are still some crappy areas. Worse result are on sleeve, but I can't show more.

 

 

[Tony Nemo]

Carlos provided the height map for you to use in sculpt as a stencil in Sculpt. Add it to your Stencil collection.

[Mihu83]

I've already have height maps for chainmail, that are used as stencils. I've also tried this one and I'm still getting some distortions, worst of them on top of sleeves.

I get best results with stencil in cube mapping + closed spline, but stil not that clean in some areas.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Mihu83

[Tony Nemo]

How about cylinder mapping sleeves and torso separate?

[Mihu83]

Nope, completely distorted alpha in that mode.

All pieces are on separate layers, I'm not trying to extrude them at the same time.

This is what I get on top of sleeve:

 

Edited October 17, 2018 by Mihu83

[Tony Nemo]

I would try to transform/scale that cylinder (it appears to be overlapping on a seam) or rotate it so that the saem is under the arm.

[Mihu83]

Thanks, I gonna try this and see what happens.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Mihu83

[Carlosan]

Is your UVmap distribution right for clothes ?

Please check this examples

https://blog.reallusion.com/2017/04/28/create-clothing-pbr-materials-for-characters/ 

http://www.paulhpaulino.com/6-tips-to-improve-your-uv-mapping-workflow/ 

https://cgi.tutsplus.com/articles/game-character-creation-series-kila-chapter-3-uv-mapping--cg-26754

[Mihu83]

I don't have uv's, I don't do retopo, etc. I work only on high poly models for concepting, I'm using custom shaders and smart materials straight on hp model, then tweak/paint renders in PS if needed.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Mihu83

[AbnRanger]

If you haven't already, you could try to use the SPLIT tool to split the different sections onto their own layers. That way the projection is more accurate. 

[Mihu83]

On 10/17/2018 at 10:57 PM, Tony Nemo said:

I would try to transform/scale that cylinder (it appears to be overlapping on a seam) or rotate it so that the saem is under the arm.

Transform/scale doesn't work. This part will be under armour, so I guess I can live with that, but still, I want to provide model that is clean as possible.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Mihu83

[Mihu83]

18 hours ago, AbnRanger said:

If you haven't already, you could try to use the SPLIT tool to split the different sections onto their own layers. That way the projection is more accurate. 

I get decent results with making instance of sleeve, split it to 4 parts(two top, two bottom), extrude one of top parts, make mirror instance and merge and the same with bottom part.

It kinda works, but I don't know if it's worth it, as final model gonna have something around 120 layers, so it's too much of a hassle for one piece.

I guees, for this type of work I'll need to try Zbrush IMM + Nano brushes at some point.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Mihu83

[AbnRanger]

22 minutes ago, Mihu83 said:

I get decent results with making instance of sleeve, split it to 4 parts(two top, two bottom), extrude one of top parts, make mirror instance and merge and the same with bottom part.

It kinda works, but I don't know if it's worth it, as final model gonna have something around 120 layers, so it's too much of a hassle for one piece.

I guees, for this type of work I'll need to try Zbrush IMM + Nano brushes at some point.

I didn't mean splitting it up into that many "Subtools" (why ZBrush calls objects, tools, I still cannot figure out). Just one for the arm area and another for the torso. Can you screen record exactly where you are having trouble? It's a bit hard to go by verbal description and an image, usually.

[Mihu83]

Sleeve was already separate piece, I don't work on one big model, every piece of armour and under armour is separate object.

I will try to make some screen record but don't know when, I don't have much time right now.

[AbnRanger]

3DCoat doesn't quite have an equivalent to ZB's Nanomesh, but as you can see in the video, Nanomesh doesn't always deliver the results you want, either. It will take a bit of tweaking, and extra work, regardless

 

[Mihu83]

I'm not surprised it wasn't working well with this topology. With simple sleeve it would be easier, I guess.

Here is better example:

 

[AbnRanger]

It probably is easier to do in ZB, with NanoMesh. However, if I wanted to do that in 3DCoat, I might create a duplicate voxel layer > give it enough resolution and thickness (you can RMB the voxel layer and click EXTRUDE, to add thickness or shrink the thickness....sort of like a PUSH modifier). Then try and use the chain mail Stencil. Use the CARVE brush, perhaps. You may want to experiment with the INVERT action, so it's trimming rather than extruding. Adjust your brush depth level, to make sure it cuts out the black in the stencil.

Another approach would be to AUTO-RETOPO > Quickly unwrap the UV's (just create a seam where you want to split it > hit UNWRAP and that should be all that's needed to get a clean even texture pattern). Then, in the Paint Room, you can use that Stencil to create the Chainmail, using UV Projection method. It should be MUCH cleaner than anything else...and you wouldn't have to waste time creating a tiled Nanomesh object.

[Mihu83]

Will try that with next project.

About second method:

I rather do manual retopo, at least I'll have clean topology from start, Auto-retopo doesn't always work.

I work only on hp models, so I don't have much experience with retopo and uv's - I use retopo room only for scultping parts. How to bring chainmail to sculpt room after creating it on uv and keep it on hp model to export it as obj or fbx? Should I bake it to the mesh?

[AbnRanger]

I did a quick test of the latter technique. Auto-Retopo delivers fantastic, evenly spaced quads, results when the shape is rather simple. It's when you throw a lot at it, where it can be rather fussy at times. It can still do a good job on complex shapes, but it's very reliable and good with more simplified shapes. That's why even on a very complex project, if you keep your models separated into logical parts, and if they parts are not overly complex, Auto-retopo can do a really good job, and remove the need for manual retopo in many cases.

I did a quick test and here's the results...

[AbnRanger]

Here is the result with the transparency applied to Layer 0

[AbnRanger]

Did another test with a Voxel layer. I create a duplicate, so I can use one as a cutting object, to trim away the innermost part of the thin layered version. You can use VoxLayer to create a shell as one approach.

Another is to RMB > Extract Shell (Voxels) > increase the resolution of the Voxel layer, so you have roughly 20-30mill polys. It needs to be pretty dense to maintain all the shape and detail of the chainmail. Use the EXTRUDE brush with RECTANGLE Lasso draw mode (or freeform lasso) chosen from teh E-Panel (make sure IGNORE BACKFACING in the E-Panel is unchecked, so it will work all the around the model) . Set your brush depth to 25 or so. Use the Stencil w/ Cube Mapping mode > adjust the scale of the stencil accordingly. Make sure VERTEX Normal is chosen for the Extrude Direction, in the Toolbar for the EXTRUDE brush.

Now select all the way around the model. It will take a bit for it to calculate, but it should extrude all around the mesh. Now, you can use the original as your cutting object. I RMB clicked that layer > EXTRUDE (by -.05) this is like a PUSH modifier. It will shrink the original. It helps to use a different shader for the cutting object, so you can see where it is in relation to the shell. Subtract it from the thin shell (RMB > SUBTRACT FROM______) layer. You should get something like this.

[Mihu83]

Looks awesome, thanks for the effort.

Definitely gonna try this with next project, but will need to do this at very beginng, as 20-30 mill polygons just for chainmail is quite high. I gonna decimate it later, but still...

[Carlosan]

 

[Carlosan]

jene: The 3Dcoat beta version has a function called Replicator that increases objects at once. It can be used like chain mail or growing a lot of weeds.