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Hey guys! 
First time posting on this forum, but I do think this is a really important topic. It might have been already discussed before but I could not find it. So appologies if it's a duplicate topic. (also i was not able to post it into feature requests because it was grayed out). 
- So my topic would be about a request of making 3d-Coat texture painting part, so basically Painting Room a separate standalone software (for a slightly lower cost?) because it's pretty obvious that during the years 3dC has become a standard for hand painted texturing in the industry. 
- Already being used by Blizzard, Riot Games and countless professionals out there it seems pretty obvious to concentrate on this. 

I mean I completely get that the devs have a different picture in their head but to be completely honest, even though 3d-Coat is really great in everything from zero to a completely finalized render, I feel like it's still not a standard in the industry, (not even remotely) for retopo, or sculpting, or uvwrapping, or PBR texturing or rendering as for example Zbrush/Mudbox for sculpting, Subtance for PBR, or 3d-Coat for hand painted texturing
For me this seems like a missed opportunity and also hand painted texturing part could use a lot improvement, even though it's the best possible solutioun out there (and I've tried Deep Paint, Body Paint 3d, 3ds max Viewport Canvas, Substance Painter, Zbrush Zapplink with Projection Master to Photoshop, Photosop 3d paint... the only software i didn't try hand painted texturing in was Mari 3d but at that point I decided to buy 3d-Coat because it was the best of all the rest of these) 

So my thought was to have 3d-Coat as it is now but at the same time offer users to buy it only for texture painting, meaning all the rest of the software could be limited in that version and this could make it more accessable for people that would mean more sales and more possibilities to also improve it! 

Let me know what you guys think! 
Have a nice day! 
Csaba

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Hi !

Please send any feature requests to Andrew Shpagin at

support@3dcoat.com 

Thx !

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Well, developers can have a different picture not only in their own mind. They really see how the app is sold, obviously. And they take into account not only the gamedev/media application of 3d-coat. And this is a relatively low price for such a multifunctional tool.

But this is a reasonable request, I think. And you know, there is Handpainters Guild in Discord, grouping a bunch of talented artists. And as I can recall, similar wishes have been expressed several times.

Edited by druh0o

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20 hours ago, tsabszy said:

even though 3d-Coat is really great in everything from zero to a completely finalized render, I feel like it's still not a standard in the industry, (not even remotely) for retopo, or sculpting, or uvwrapping, or PBR texturing or rendering as for example Zbrush/Mudbox for sculpting, Subtance for PBR, or 3d-Coat for hand painted texturing!

I forgot to mention that 3d-coat is also used by concept artists and other 2d artists for the blocking phase. And in this area 3d-coat with its sculpting/modeling tools can successfully compete with ZBrush.

Edited by druh0o

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@druh0o thx for the answer :)
i'm not here to talk down on 3d-coat at all. i am only talking about mainstream industry standards. and i might be mistaken but i believe in that area 3d-coat seem to only lead in hand painted texturing area compared to those other 3d packages. i completely agree that even this price is affordable especially for pros, so even if hand painted part would not become a standalone software the devs should definately take the fact into account when it comes to new updates that what their software is most used for. 
i don't even bother using newer versions of 3d-coat because often times something is broken. last time i updated it was clone tool symmetry copy, but also countless long awaited features that never get implemented and have been asked for since 5+ years ago. i know people who don't even want to upgrade to version 4 etc..

anyone can use this product to their needs, blockout, full project from start to finish but i would be really curious if there is more pople of those kind or who just paint their texture in this software. nonetheless the hand painted texturing area is really neglected and yet this software has been becoming an industry standard in that area so i don't see the reason why you wouldn't invest in it. 

btw, the price is completely reasonable so to be honest for professional use i wouldn't reduce the price necessarily, the idea of making it a standalone is only because many people buy a software that they use only 10% of. and a smaller price for only hand painted part could mean more sales because much more users decided to buy it (like smaller indies or beginner freelancers i dunno) who mostly work on mobile games. 

anyway, thx for answering the reason i posted this is i also wanted to hear others opinion about it

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This is just my personal opinion, but Andrew has already spent needless time acquiescing to similar requests to split the app up and It's a horrible idea, as far as I'm concerned. I don't mean to step on any toes, but the reality of it is that what may seem like a good idea, may actually turn out to be a terrible one. My contention is that for Pilgway, the latter has been the case. I don't think any of these offshoots have paid off. For every new offshoot, they would need marketing, training and separate support. The company is just too small to handle it and as I mentioned before, it isn't financially viable for them to bring more staff resources to do so.

It has utterly killed a few years of development on the app because Andrew had to divert his attention from 3DCoat, towards the different versions.

PlastyCad, 3DC Printing, 3DCoat Modding Tool, and now 3D4Shoes (I just heard about this). Enough already. This explains why Sculpt Layer development has seemingly stalled. A few years ago, Andrew put Sculpt Layers off because he said he promised users he would redo the Layer Masks in the Paint room. That never got done. You know why? Because he was working on 3DC Printing...all because someone convinced him it would be a great idea. It wasn't. There are a number of things I've repeatedly asked for over the years, and it gets put off because of diversions like this. Performance in the Paint Room is one. Including sliders. They are basically useless in 3DCoat because they are so slow. I've asked Andrew probably 20 times about that over the past 4-5yrs. PRIORITIES. 3DCoat users should get it. Not people who don't even own/use 3DCoat yet. That's my 2 cents worth.

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It's more convenient to have everything on one program.  In terms of price 3D Coat is actually a bit generous when considered against similar competitors.

And to add to AbnRangers point, splitting off smaller less useful programs isn't always successful, and not just with Pilgway, consider zBrushCore, which is just kind of useless, limited, and frustrating.

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The problem of carrying out a development such as this one is not only commercial but of stability of the program. 

We know that 3DC works as several programs in one separated as workbench but interconnected.

The development of the program is done in a united way.

If they were separate programs, the development would be unequal and would require several separate development teams working on each branches.

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@AbnRanger we could forget the standalone thing, but i was also talking about at least supporting the part most users use 
@Falconius as i already said i wouldn't force having a separate (or limited) software either but still zbrushcore is a completely different matter. pixologic just made a cheaper version of ZB by randomly (or pretty poorly chosen) limitations. but also zb is completely different than 3d-coat. the reason i said there could be a texturing standalone for it is because there are people out there who buy this software for texturing only. sure there are others and there are people who might texture + retopo or texture plus uvw i dunno, but ZB is about sculpting. that does not work good with limitations because the whole software is built around the same ui and viewport. 3d-coat has completely separate windows/vieports for completely different stages of the job.  

but back to the issue AbnRanger also pointed out... ok let's forget standalones and silly ideas like that. i'm down with even paying a bit more if they actually improve the things i use, instead of having to use a version that's been out for years. and the part of the software that's the most popular is just abandoned basically. instead of that, put the most not the less effort in it

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@Carlosan i completely understand this is not easy. i think zbrush also started out like this. a completely different 3d package with different kind of thinking and also unique rendering system and everything. but what part of the software is improved the most? the part why most people buy it, sculpting. sure they have been improving texturing, rendering inside of zbrush but sculpting performance and tools are the main area of improvement among features. 
with 3d-coat i might be ignorant only and that's why i think it is most used for texturing, but even if it happens to not be the most used part, i'm sure that a very significant amount of people don't touch other parts of the program, only texturing. so it should be at least one of the main focus

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2 hours ago, tsabszy said:

@AbnRanger we could forget the standalone thing, but i was also talking about at least supporting the part most users use 
@Falconius as i already said i wouldn't force having a separate (or limited) software either but still zbrushcore is a completely different matter. pixologic just made a cheaper version of ZB by randomly (or pretty poorly chosen) limitations. but also zb is completely different than 3d-coat. the reason i said there could be a texturing standalone for it is because there are people out there who buy this software for texturing only. sure there are others and there are people who might texture + retopo or texture plus uvw i dunno, but ZB is about sculpting. that does not work good with limitations because the whole software is built around the same ui and viewport. 3d-coat has completely separate windows/vieports for completely different stages of the job.  

but back to the issue AbnRanger also pointed out... ok let's forget standalones and silly ideas like that. i'm down with even paying a bit more if they actually improve the things i use, instead of having to use a version that's been out for years. and the part of the software that's the most popular is just abandoned basically. instead of that, put the most not the less effort in it

I'm in total agreement with you, there. Truth of the matter is, Andrew has only started working in the Sculpt Room after a long hiatus from it. The whole app would be about 2yrs ahead if Andrew had not been convinced by a few people, who probably had never used 3DCoat before, to create offshoots. This is why I'm a bit upset to hear of yet another one....right in the middle of Sculpt Layer development...which seemed to stall for a few months. Now, we know why. For a SHOE Design version? Really? This cannot be done within 3DCoat EDU or Professional?

 

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7 hours ago, tsabszy said:

@AbnRanger we could forget the standalone thing, but i was also talking about at least supporting the part most users use 
@Falconius as i already said i wouldn't force having a separate (or limited) software either but still zbrushcore is a completely different matter. pixologic just made a cheaper version of ZB by randomly (or pretty poorly chosen) limitations. but also zb is completely different than 3d-coat. the reason i said there could be a texturing standalone for it is because there are people out there who buy this software for texturing only. sure there are others and there are people who might texture + retopo or texture plus uvw i dunno, but ZB is about sculpting. that does not work good with limitations because the whole software is built around the same ui and viewport. 3d-coat has completely separate windows/vieports for completely different stages of the job.  

but back to the issue AbnRanger also pointed out... ok let's forget standalones and silly ideas like that. i'm down with even paying a bit more if they actually improve the things i use, instead of having to use a version that's been out for years. and the part of the software that's the most popular is just abandoned basically. instead of that, put the most not the less effort in it

Yeah I agree.  It's just at the price it sells I don't think it's necessarily beneficial.  If 3D Coat was 700 or 800 dollar software it might make more sense.

Obviously the paint room is highly important because that's where 3D Coat has the strongest market, but I don't think that means it should limit development of other areas to increase it's marketability in other areas.  Especially since it's sculpting suite is competitive with zBrush's and all it needs is a little push.  I bought it because of the sculpting suite with the added benefit of the paint room and the retopo.  I'm sure many people do the opposite.  IIt's the drawback of having a smaller team I guess that things people like and use, stand still for bit while other areas are worked on.

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