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Carlosan

AMD's CEO and CTO on Radeon VII, ray tracing and beyond

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On 2/15/2019 at 9:24 AM, AbnRanger said:

That's cool. I'm pretty budget minded. I'm always looking for the best deal I can find on any component. I'm anxious to see how your Radeon VII performs in rendering and Houdini Sims

My oh my, look what just arrived in the mail!:D:D

20190216_173701.thumb.jpg.4cf5bd4f5d9518ea5f8a85debef70ed2.jpg20190216_173633.thumb.jpg.35bff7806d2d9895e43011c4cacd396d.jpg20190216_180451.thumb.jpg.1497df5391149d9af58dd32986935c92.jpg

Edited by L'Ancien Regime
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8 hours ago, L'Ancien Regime said:

My oh my, look what just arrived in the mail!:D:D

20190216_173701.thumb.jpg.4cf5bd4f5d9518ea5f8a85debef70ed2.jpg20190216_173633.thumb.jpg.35bff7806d2d9895e43011c4cacd396d.jpg20190216_180451.thumb.jpg.1497df5391149d9af58dd32986935c92.jpg

Oh man...that really looks cool.

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The wording on the box explains what this card is, and what many Tech Reviewers miss. That this IS NOT aimed exclusively to gamers. It matches Nvidia's $800 card for gaming while providing twice the Memory for Content Creators. 

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And it looks like at least initially, the NAVI won't be rivaling the 7nm Vega architecture for high powered computing and desktop workstations. NAVI appears to be focused in the near future on gaming, specifically targeting the future consoles.

 

OTOH the new Ryzen X570 motherboards for Ryzen 3000 desktops will have PCIE gen 4.0

and

 

The 8 core models can sell for around $199-$299 while the 12 core parts can go for $399 and finally, the 16 core parts can end up around $499. The reason we will be looking at such good prices is that unlike Threadripper CPUs which use a bigger PCB and four dies (based on EPYC layout), the Ryzen CPUs will only be featuring 2 dies and that saves up space and design costs. Also, the 6 core and 4 core parts may end up under the $150-$200 US bracket which would make them an ideal choice for budget users.

 

https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-3000-cpus-x570-motherboards-and-radeon-navi-gpus-7nm-launch-rumor/

 

 

You can never be up to the  moment very long in this technological race. At some point you just have to stop and say what do I need to do the job and then be happy with that.

Edited by L'Ancien Regime

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3 hours ago, L'Ancien Regime said:

And it looks like at least initially, the NAVI won't be rivaling the 7nm Vega architecture for high powered computing and desktop workstations. NAVI appears to be focused in the near future on gaming, specifically targeting the future consoles.

 

OTOH the new Ryzen X570 motherboards for Ryzen 3000 desktops will have PCIE gen 4.0

and

 

The 8 core models can sell for around $199-$299 while the 12 core parts can go for $399 and finally, the 16 core parts can end up around $499. The reason we will be looking at such good prices is that unlike Threadripper CPUs which use a bigger PCB and four dies (based on EPYC layout), the Ryzen CPUs will only be featuring 2 dies and that saves up space and design costs. Also, the 6 core and 4 core parts may end up under the $150-$200 US bracket which would make them an ideal choice for budget users.

 

https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-3000-cpus-x570-motherboards-and-radeon-navi-gpus-7nm-launch-rumor/

 

 

You can never be up to the  moment very long in this technological race. At some point you just have to stop and say what do I need to do the job and then be happy with that.

It's a good problem to have. I remember not having ANY real options to upgrade my CPU, for about 5yrs there, until AMD came out with the Ryzen chips. I really wish I had a pile of cash to invest in AMD when I first heard about the Ryzen series. I would be a rich man today, as their stock went up over something like a 1000% once it hit the market.

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See, 2933 MHz is the top speed supported by Ryzen+ and that G. Skill Flare X399 is ECC. That's why it's pricey. A waste of money? If you're doing something that takes 6 or 8 hours of computation like one of those Houdini simulations you were talking about not having error correcting can cause your system to crash in the middle of its work

 

https://level1techs.com/video/memory-unleashed-threadripper-128gb-2933-ecc-tested

 

:)

ryzen.thumb.jpg.5e016fbc47ad6371803db90fc4af1b4d.jpg

The G. Skill is on the way any day now. But I still have some decisions to make about the M2 hard drives and the CPU cooler and the kind of case it will dictate. Basically I want to control the confusion by packing everything into an enclosed server rack (should be up on casters for ventilation and moving it around, like the external UPS, the routers and switches I want to experiment with for Cisco networking, another older server I own, and a hot swappable hard drive storage. So I'm looking for a 4u case and cooling that will fit that. Something like this stuff;

685388308_tp.jpg.93235f5878e6c738a05a3d66fc6339d7.jpg11-147-154-02.jpg.441e5f5eb21f86f6dca0e9ac171f8e8e.jpg

I really want order and an easy to keep clean and dust free setup. But I'm outside my knowledge on this stuff...I'm asking all my server room friends for guidance on this...I think I'd actually prefer not to get into liquid cooling...just to avoid the maintenance..

 

And then there's the monitors...

Edited by L'Ancien Regime

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This ThreadRipper has been the most stable CPU I've eve owned and the Be Quiet Dark Rock Pro TR4 is the best CPU cooler I've ever owned. I was running a long simulation last night with PhoenixFD. I didn't know if it would take 30min or 3+ hrs, so I went to bed with it cooking. Got up and it was all done, no issues. ECC is mainly for servers, and it's overkill for CG work, IMO.

As for a Case, I'd just get a full sized Tower, with lots of airflow.

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That Corsair 570 looks like something I'd be looking into, if I were assembling a completely new system, today.

 

But, I have to say, Lian Li makes some of the best cases out there. I used to have one (I have since sold the system)...all black brushed aluminum, and it was such a solid case. No rattles or odd random noises coming from the case (unlike my current NZXT Phantom 630). No more buying cases with cheap plastic anywhere on it. I learned my lesson, well. Lian Li is all about quality materials. Will probably be my next case.

 

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Cases are nice but there's the UPS there's a second rig, there's switches and routers and  hard drive storage in one of those hot swap arrays to play with. It turns into a big mess on the table and it becomes a major project to keep it all dust free. A used tower is $250 to $350.

 

 

And I'm seriously looking at virtualization. VMWare Server 15 is only about $115 right now. Run that on top of linux. The pass through to hardware like the GPU is so good now that the layer of virtualization only takes up about one CPU cycle, which is really negligible. I'm thinking of two Samsung 970 M2's at 500 GB in RAID 1 and then have everything else offloaded to virtual machines for  VMWare stored on a hard drive outside my main server.  There are other such options to look at. 

 

 

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Yesss...forget gaming...this is a creator's monster GPU.

 

"This card is the deal of the century"

Wendell, Level 1 :D

 

 

Looks to me like it's still available at the Radeon store... (that's in Canadian pesos...it's still $699 USD)

 

radeon.thumb.JPG.447f4b71c2a7f343069854f7e7bb48b2.JPG

 

Edited by L'Ancien Regime

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3 hours ago, L'Ancien Regime said:

Yesss...forget gaming...this is a creator's monster GPU.

 

"This card is the deal of the century"

Wendell, Level 1 :D

 

 

Looks to me like it's still available at the Radeon store... (that's in Canadian pesos...it's still $699 USD)

 

radeon.thumb.JPG.447f4b71c2a7f343069854f7e7bb48b2.JPG

 

Yeah. It's a good competitor to the 2080, for gamers...so, I don't really understand all the flak from most of the Tech Gurus, who largely ignore it's appeal to Content Creators. That is who I think this card was made for. Those of us who buy gaming cards for our CG work. If I was running a studio that used Blender as it's main pipeline app, this is the card I'd be buying for any new workstations.

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2 minutes ago, L'Ancien Regime said:

Just about ready to start building this...just waiting for the heat paste though it's already pre applied on that Corsair H100i Platinum.

 

1130979302_imgpsh_fullsize_anim(1).thumb.jpg.94ce9e39234d7304cb0fc8a83d016786.jpg

I can tell you right now, that Corsair AIO is probably not going to adequately cool the ThreadRipper. Why? Because I had one nearly identical to it, in the H115i, and none of the Corsair coolers cover the full Die Surface. That's why you really should get a cooler specifically designed for Threadripper CPU's. The Dark Rock Pro TR4 cooled MUCH, MUCH better than the H115i. I'm running it on a 4.0Ghz OC, and it's as cool as a cucumber, and super quiet. Even when rendering. My H115i would thermal throttle every time I tried to render.

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Which corsair H115i was it though?

There's H115i v1, H115i v2, H115i Professional and H115i PLATINUM

 

Platinums have a totally different cold plate than those first three and yes it does completely cover the Threadripper

 

My H100i Platinum has the same cold plate but has a 240mm radiator instead of a 280mm radiator.

 

The Corsair H115i and H100i PLATINUM were released in November 2018.

H115i Pro

HS03UCS_200855_800x800.thumb.jpg.4f263b17a622bff190aa3c2ac4f4e29c.jpg

 

H115i Platinum

wase-389_wase_389_01_800x800.thumb.jpg.303371af0b176ab993c8c2037e1f9319.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by L'Ancien Regime

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The one I had was the H115i V2. It has the circular cold plate and came out about 2yrs ago. Granted the new Platinum models seem to be more square, probably to make it more compatible with ThreadRippers, but if you watch the video below, and others that cover Threadripper-specific coolers, their cold plates are considerably larger. The TR die extends well beyond that pre-applied thermal past pattern (on the H100i Platinum) and those screws don't dissipate heat. Point is, it covers more than the circular pattern, but still not full coverage of TR CPU's.

It may work OK, but the Enermax LiqTech is a better option, IMO, if you are set on AIO's. I did a LOT of research on these coolers...like at least a full day or two worth of research...because that H115 was driving me nuts. One day, it would be relatively quiet, and the next day the fans would sound like a jet was heading down the runway. Maybe there was some conflict between the CorsairLink app and other temp monitoring software, but I decided to just go with Air Coolers to avoid such headaches in the future. So glad I did. This Dark Rock Pro TR4 is exactly what the doctor ordered and it checks all the boxes.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/corsair-h100i-rgb-platinum-cooler,5905-2.html

 

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Enermax 1 was a disaster and looks like Enermax II is shaping up as a disaster too judging from the videos and NewEgg and Amazon reviews.  One Enermax 2 review showed a tech opening up the pump and the water block and there was already goop in the heat dissipation vanes in the copper water block plugging things up with signs of rubber washers ready to fail in spots. You'd be lucky to just have it die on you and not flood your motherboard.

here's that review;

 

This corsair platinum block will work fine for 3  years and by then Corsair will have something better. Corsair is zero maintenance and the least likely to fail or leak

 

Trust me I've really researched this and it wasn't pleasant. The problem with big air coolers is that they can block off your vital PCIE slots and make doing anything with your RAM a pain. And I'm going to want all those PCIE slots; I'll be getting a used Teradici 2 card for remote graphics over the internet at 60fps and maybe a second  Radeon VII down the line. 

 

 

And like I said this is more than a one computer project. I want everything stowed away on a 42u server rack, including the UPS and later a hot swappable hard drive data server with a cheap CPU and mobo running it. And there'll be Cisco switches and routers in the mix for networking studies.

s-l400.jpg.05d882a8a33b74a6b2de082216deed99.jpg

 

A desktop rig just isn't going to do it for me. Not my fantasy.  If I've made a mistake, there goes $160. Whooee. I was looking at tickets for the Roxy Music concert in Toronto next summer and they're $360 a seat. That's $360 for sitting in a concert for 2 hours. Got to keep things in proportion here.

Damn I'd like to go though...I bet there'll be some good looking women there...

 

So far I'm actually under budget. I calculated $6000 and I'm only at $5400 Cdn .

Edited by L'Ancien Regime
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That's cool. I saw mixed reviews about the Liqtech. But as far as AIO's, I think they are the only manufacturer that makes a model specifically for ThreadRipper CPU's. Just sharing my experience, and BTW, the Dark Rock Pro TR4 doesn't impede the RAM nor the PCI-E slots. It's the best and quietest cooler I've ever owned, by far.

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Actually there's lots of custom water blocks for Threadripper that sell for $75 or so. The only problem is that's just the waterblock. The entire system will hit you for $800 at least. And it's high maintenance and so risky and also outside my competency. If nothing else works I might be driven to such a solution but for now the Corsair is zero maintenance; comes pre filled and sealed and ready to go.

 

https://www.singularitycomputers.com/shop/watercooling/protium-d5-reservoir-combo-150mm-polished-acrylic/

 

$217 USD just for a resevoir with built in pump..

04.thumb.jpg.14705c3afd14ad8afe7d36183af6ea4f.jpg

 

In one sense it's a lot of money but in another perspective, how much will  annual maintenance on a Porsche Targa cost you?  I've heard $6500 but I don't know. I know a guy who had a black one with glove leather interior and you wouldn't believe the girlfriends he effortlessly got with that thing; little rich girls that were 10's. So maybe it's worth it. 

 

Also since this is ostensibly a thread on the Radeon VII and we've veered off onto cooling components, I was looking at the rear plate of the  Radeon VII and it appears that this is a setup for cooling its GPU. I suspect but I don't know. Sure looks like that's for mounting brackets but there's no smooth GPU heat sink to press the cold plate to with layered heat paste. I'm a bit puzzled...

630764-a-great-backing-plate.thumb.jpg.6fe007659a645e69c61a8f433d5da89c.jpg

 

Edited by L'Ancien Regime

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On 3/14/2019 at 4:42 PM, L'Ancien Regime said:

Actually there's lots of custom water blocks for Threadripper that sell for $75 or so. The only problem is that's just the waterblock. The entire system will hit you for $800 at least. And it's high maintenance and so risky and also outside my competency. If nothing else works I might be driven to such a solution but for now the Corsair is zero maintenance; comes pre filled and sealed and ready to go.

 

https://www.singularitycomputers.com/shop/watercooling/protium-d5-reservoir-combo-150mm-polished-acrylic/

 

$217 USD just for a resevoir with built in pump..

04.thumb.jpg.14705c3afd14ad8afe7d36183af6ea4f.jpg

 

In one sense it's a lot of money but in another perspective, how much will  annual maintenance on a Porsche Targa cost you?  I've heard $6500 but I don't know. I know a guy who had a black one with glove leather interior and you wouldn't believe the girlfriends he effortlessly got with that thing; little rich girls that were 10's. So maybe it's worth it. 

 

Also since this is ostensibly a thread on the Radeon VII and we've veered off onto cooling components, I was looking at the rear plate of the  Radeon VII and it appears that this is a setup for cooling its GPU. I suspect but I don't know. Sure looks like that's for mounting brackets but there's no smooth GPU heat sink to press the cold plate to with layered heat paste. I'm a bit puzzled...

630764-a-great-backing-plate.thumb.jpg.6fe007659a645e69c61a8f433d5da89c.jpg

 

To watercool the GPU, you'd have to take the stock cooling off, including the fan shroud. You'd also need a waterblock to fit it. The back plate is just for protection and rigidity. It has some ventilation holes to allow some of the heat, coming off the bottom/back to dissipate. That bracket you see just screws into the copper block on the front side. It's not for mounting anything on the backside.

I have never fooled with custom water-cooling. Too costly and too much trouble, IMO. I'm gonna stick with Air Coolers, going forward, as long as they are effective. It's a lot less headache and maintenance, and you never have to worry if the pump is gonna fail or leaking into your system.

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I think custom watercooling is more for those interested in making their machine a work of art and have it around for a few years than it is for people who are using their machines to work and frequently upgrade.  The sealed systems are just better in terms of ease of use, risk, and maintenance.

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