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AbnRanger

There goes the Neighborhood...Adobe buys Allegorithmic

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It could be a great opportunity for 3D Coat if they took advantage of it by reaching out to disgruntled Allegorithmic customers and promoting to them the advantages 3D Coat has to offer, such as not requiring a subscription, having painting and sculpting in the same package, 3d mouse support, and so forth. If I was the owner of the company I would be furiously preparing some sort of "come over to 3D Coat" sale to get out today and strike while the iron is hot.
 

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3D Coat might already be poaching some of the indies, I'm literally only learning about you guys right now as a result of the merger news. I won't tell you how to run your business but I will say there's a window of opportunity for you guys here.

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Wow I really don't know what to say other than I hope the best for any Substance painter avid users but I wouldn't get my hopes up for any luck in their future and what Adobe is going to do with Substance Painter. I use the Bitmap to material program a lot and glad I have it now before they potentially ruin/paywall it all behind subscription only services.

I started using programs like adobe when they only used to offer perpetual licenses (like early 2000's) and the more Adobe went towards subscription online only licences and removed perpetual the less interested I became in them. A HUGE reason I bought Substance Painter and 3D Coat was because they offered a reasonably priced perpetual license, something Adobe no longer supports.

This could be a huge chance for 3D Coat to gain more users and also take over if Adobe ruins substance painter. I just hope if 3D Coat becomes even larger they don't abandon options like the perpetual license.

Edited by Mystical
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22 minutes ago, Mystical said:

Wow I really don't know what to say other than I hope the best for any Substance painter avid users but I wouldn't get my hopes up for any luck in their future and what Adobe is going to do with Substance Painter. I use the Bitmap to material program a lot and glad I have it now before they potentially ruin/paywall it all behind subscription only services.

I started using programs like adobe when they only used to offer perpetual licenses (like early 2000's) and the more Adobe went towards subscription online only licences and removed perpetual the less interested I became in them. A HUGE reason I bought Substance Painter and 3D Coat was because they offered a reasonably priced perpetual license, something Adobe no longer supports.

This could be a huge chance for 3D Coat to gain more users and also take over if Adobe ruins substance painter. I just hope if 3D Coat becomes even larger they don't abandon options like the perpetual license.

Pilgway has already said subscriptions are not a feasible business model for them. At least not with 3DCoat. They might offer an Indie version similar to what Substance offered, that isn't limited, as an alternative, but perpetual is going to be the primary option.

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There's nothing wrong with the $100 perpetual that seems to be on offer right now. Indies have smaller budgets with smaller margins for error than the big guys, having a one time payment beats out a subscription any day even if it costs a little more upfront, it gets rid of uncertainty. It's not the current pricing that is an issue with regards to Substance tools it's the uncertainty that comes when Adobe buys them out. Even the worst prophet can tell you that their prices are going to change soon and it will not be for the benefit of guys like me. It just sucks that I literally got away from Quixel because of their Photoshop requirement only to have Adobe come in and buy out the company of my alternative choice after reluctantly "subscribing" with the hope of owning it at the end. I'm not touching that with a thousand yard pole.

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14 minutes ago, AbnRanger said:

Pilgway has already said subscriptions are not a feasible business model for them. At least not with 3DCoat. They might offer an Indie version similar to what Substance offered, that isn't limited, as an alternative, but perpetual is going to be the primary option.

That is good to hear. The fear just like with Substance painter is one day 3D Coat could get bought out by a notorious subscription only company. Then they would stop offering perpetual. Right now the Substance Painter team is saying nothing with change with their pricing model for now but we all know what that means. Adobe pulling the strings will force them to integrate into the cloud and only offer subscription fees for probably a much higher price.

Right now 3D Coat is a dream come true. I own both 3D Coat and Substance and liked how painting in 3D Coat was done more (plus baking and unwrapping) so I've always used it more. Like with any 3D Art/design programs that start to usurp adobe/autodesk the fear is those great programs will be bought out and they will no longer resemble what they once were. I still miss the days of Alias Maya and being able to buy a perpetual license for that, still have my discs as relics of an era that once was lol

I'm not against online subscription models, only when they take away perpetual. Then the subscription costs become more expensive than if you could just buy a 1 time license and not update every year when minimal changes occur you don't need.

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Man.. I should of bought those Substance Painter licenses back when they had that last sale... I have a feeling it's the last time I see a perpetual license from them.

 

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Time to develop procedural textures, is the only way to prevail.

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27 minutes ago, Carlosan said:

Time to develop procedural textures, is the only way to prevail.

Agreed. I've been asking for a procedural noise generator in 3DCoat for years, now. Bercon Maps is one such Open Source Library, and I shared that with Andrew on multiple occasions. He just replied "it's not as easy and copy and paste." Nobody expects useful features to be easy. 

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As a non-Adobe Creative Cloud subscriber and Substance Designer/Painter license owner, I am not excited about the Allegorithmic's decision.  However, after purchasing 3D-Coat a few weeks ago, I began to question whether I still required Substance for my humble needs.  Time will tell, after I explore the possibilities of 3D Coat further.

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i have substance designer for the hope of creating procedural texture. But it brings more pain than satisfaction in creating texture in terms of time and effort just to create one. Not to mention the time invested in learning. It has its own quirks as well. Now i just use it for creating seamless textures or converting normal/height etc. 

 

I hope more love can be given for 3x3 tiling (similar to procedural textures). Where models can be dropped to the parent folder and it will auto propagate to the rest of the 8 tiles. We just have to color flood the models individual without the need to hand painting.

And another would be seamless sculpting across the tiles. I had managed some trickery to get it to work somehow, but proper solution should come from 3d coat.

 

seamless1.png

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Just started reading through some of the "Our Voice" section. As a result my wife and I have decided that this was the software we were meant to be using all along, and we literally found it on the last day of our fast.

Thank you.

--Christopher and Jeannisse Herrera.

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From what I read on their site current customers won't see any change in their license for some time.

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5 minutes ago, philnolan3d said:

From what I read on their site current customers won't see any change in their license for some time.

There's a couple of major issues:

1. Updates. Regardless of what kind of license you have, you will need to purchase CC to get them. Adobe said so themselves. I simply cannot support their predatory practices and will never sign up for their software.

https://theblog.adobe.com/adobe-acquires-allegorithmic-substance-3d-gaming/

2. The software currently uses DRM to validate the license and see to detect how many computers are running the software. When those servers are changed or no longer exist, the perpetual license means nothing since you won't have a way to install/run the software. Since Allegorithmic is being dissolved, the agreement with them is also void, so there is no legal routes to pursue. You have only their word, which means nothing now since they're a mouthpiece for Adobe. I don't see them stripping away the DRM so that perpetual users will be assured that their software will keep working.

The PR team is being really squirrely addressing these issues and keeps saying, "trust us" and "we haven't worked everything out yet".

Learning software and developing a pipeline is a serious investment and if the future is going to look like this (or worse Mixamo), then switching out ASAP is a priority.

Hence why I'm here and evaluating 3D Coat for our needs.

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Interesting. I am already a Adobe CC customer (Photoshop CC 2019 & Lightroom CC 2019) as I do more photography then 3D. I think Substance Painter would be overkill for my needs. Tomorrow I'm signed up for a free Corel Painter webinar on creating textures with Don Seegmiller. I've owned Corel Painter longer then Adobe Photoshop.

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On 1/23/2019 at 9:49 PM, TheBritain said:

There's a couple of major issues:

1. Updates. Regardless of what kind of license you have, you will need to purchase CC to get them. Adobe said so themselves. I simply cannot support their predatory practices and will never sign up for their software.

https://theblog.adobe.com/adobe-acquires-allegorithmic-substance-3d-gaming/

2. The software currently uses DRM to validate the license and see to detect how many computers are running the software. When those servers are changed or no longer exist, the perpetual license means nothing since you won't have a way to install/run the software. Since Allegorithmic is being dissolved, the agreement with them is also void, so there is no legal routes to pursue. You have only their word, which means nothing now since they're a mouthpiece for Adobe. I don't see them stripping away the DRM so that perpetual users will be assured that their software will keep working.

The PR team is being really squirrely addressing these issues and keeps saying, "trust us" and "we haven't worked everything out yet".

Learning software and developing a pipeline is a serious investment and if the future is going to look like this (or worse Mixamo), then switching out ASAP is a priority.

Hence why I'm here and evaluating 3D Coat for our needs.

The way I see it Houdini is the king of 3d procedural workflow using VPL. Maybe this debacle will push them hard into developing their SHOPS workflow so that it equals or surpasses Allegorithmic. 

 

It's got a long way to go but Houdini should invest the time in it to make it competitive.

 

https://lesterbanks.com/2018/09/create-texture-generator-houdini/

Edited by L'Ancien Regime

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And I was thinking, this is just as Pilgway is releasing their Smart Material Library store.. They could not of timed it better. GJ Andrew and team.

Quick Edit, not trying to bash Algorithmic, I love their product! I'm just dissapointed in their corporate move. 

Edited by Nossgrr
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I definitely wont be purchasing any more Algorithmic products anymore. I'll be sticking to what version I have now with a slow transition either back to 3D Coat or depending on how Blender 2.8 pans out, their tools + plugins. Armor Paint looks promising, and there seems to be a general interest in getting Blender to pick up where Allegorithmic started.

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3 hours ago, Nossgrr said:

And I was thinking, this is just as Pilgway is releasing their Smart Material Library store.. They could not of timed it better. GJ Andrew and team.

Quick Edit, not trying to bash Algorithmic, I love their product! I'm just dissapointed in their corporate move. 

 

This is definitely a pivotal time to capitalize on their mistake with joining Adobe. Lot of upset customers and while I am not looking for a software war (since I do own own both products) many did look down on 3D Coat as a lesser option. Personally I think its a great tool and if it continues to get support and updates it will only get stronger.

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Since it has not been mentioned here, I'd like to also point out Quixel chose to respond to the news as well. Mixer is going to be their new texturing software and they are planning to sell it for $99. What I find fascinating is how they do texture generation, where Substance Designer is node based, they opted for a layer based approach. I would even suggest it is in 3D Coat's best interest to consider a layer based procedural texturing approach as well as it already has the advantage as far as texture painting goes.
 

 

 

Edited by RabenWulf
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