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16-bit alpha inside 3D-Coat ?


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  • Carlosan changed the title to [Solved] 16-bit alpha inside 3D-Coat ?
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40 minutes ago, Carlosan said:

26.02.2019 4.8.34

- Support of 16-bit PNG tor alphas

Could you please try it now ?

Of course my friend, I will test here. This is very important to all of us. And I'll post the results.

The only thing I would ask you would be to change the status of the topic from "Solved" to Open. That's because we have to do tests and see if any of the problems mentioned in the topic still remain. Whatever you decide, fine by me. thank you. :) 
 
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How can I check and confirm if the alpha that I imported into the Alpha palette of 3D-Coat still has 16-bit?

I ask this, because there is no information about the bit depth of the image (alpha) that the user can verify.
When the mouse is on top of the alpha of the palette, it opens an information window with the alpha name, alpha size, Alpha, Color, Depth, Spec....
Without bit depth.

In the tests I'm doing, I'm creating alphas with 16-bits. Let's assume that the user does not have this information.
How could this user know if the alpha that is in the Alpha palette of 3D-Coat has 8-bit or 16-bit?


It may seem like a silly question, but the answer to this is important so that I can report correctly on the tests I'm doing.

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Hey everyone!
__________________________________________________

1. First Test regarding the 16 bit Exr format.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I created in blender an alpha and saved that alpha with 16-bits in EXR format:
  1. When I directly import this alpha created in Blender into 3D-Coat, 3D-Coat imports the alpha correctly.

  2. I took the same alpha, opened it in GIMP, edited the alpha and saved the image in EXR. When I try to import this alpha created by GIMP into 3D-Coat, to my surprise, the following message appears:
"Incorrect extension of mist_exr_skin2.exe.  The file looks like Png. "

image.png.e041f28a98737a6e1491d511c7bf88f1.png

But why this message if I saved as EXR in the GIMP?
It seems that all the alphas I export from GIMP in EXR is generating me this message. I do not know if it is some GIMP export problem.

After the message,  the alpha appears in the alphas palette, however I believe that this alpha that I saved as EXR will be converted to the PNG format.
After that, I do not know if alpha is still EXR or if 3D-Coat will convert Alpha to PNG.

I believe that the alpha still has 16-bit, but I can not say because 3D-Coat has no option of the user to check the bit depth information of a texture, alpha or stencil.
In my opinion, it would be very valid if developers could provide us with this bit depth information.

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New update .34 says
 

Quote

- Image files recognized not by extension (that may be wrong) but by signature. It prevents multiple user errors. Sometimes files, downloaded from internet have wrong extension.

 

So probably GIMP as usual, doing things in strange ways, isnt exporting the EXR as it should so 3DCoat can read the signature to properly import it as a EXR.

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Sorry I reply too late,, (I tried to test one by one, but wait if there will be up-date,)  and just say thanks Emi and  Riggard yours guide and teach me a lot to take your time.  I need to learn more and more about these things. :p:

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1 hour ago, Emi said:

New update .34 says
 

 

So probably GIMP as usual, doing things in strange ways, isnt exporting the EXR as it should so 3DCoat can read the signature to properly import it as a EXR. 

Emi, I know, I had already thought of that. Unfortunately or fortunately I use GIMP and Krita. Apparently, GIMP is generating a lot of confusion or strange things.
After all, even with this warning about EXR, I would like to inform you that imported alpha has no errors or problems!
Thanks to Andrew and the developers for doing a great job on 3D-Coat and so we are progressing more and more in Sculpt Room and Paint Room.

 

43 minutes ago, tokikake said:

Sorry I reply too late,, (I tried to test one by one, but wait if there will be up-date,)  and just say thanks Emi and  Riggard yours guide and teach me a lot to take your time.  I need to learn more and more about these things. 

Tokikake, No problems! I'm glad somehow I'm helping! The important thing is for the community to become more united and help each other! You will always be welcome to share experiences, information and tips!
A simple tip, do not worry, you have in hand a unique program and you really dedicating yourself will be able to learn everything you want! At first it's a bit confusing, I was confused myself as I came from the ZBrush world, but 3D-Coat is easy to learn and to adapt. It's a powerful program!

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Since the topic is about 16 bit, it would be great if we had 16 bits in the PSD format extension.
Now in the Paint Room, using the Edit Projections in Ext. Editor option, 3D-Coat generates a temporary file in 8-bit PSD format, and when you return to 3D-Coat, the quality will obviously be 8-bit.
If I'm not mistaken, when you edit an alpha (Edit Ext. Editor), 3D-Coat will generate a temporary PSD and then return to 3D-Coat. That means 8-bit quality.
It would be fantastic if Andrew could make 3D-Coat accept that any PSD format extension would be 16-bit.

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  • 5 weeks later...
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 I still have no way to make my own 16bit Alpha brush (which plan to use for texture paint ),  So new 3d coat beta can import 16bit PNG (for alpha only) but About PNG (16bit SRGB)

how convert it as Brush?  from manuall I can gather these infomation,  In 3d coat we see these 4 image per "Brush Alpha "

Color: This contains the Brush color as well as its corresponding Transparency mask. This mask affects the Glossiness Layer, as well.

Height/Depth effects displacement for sculpting and the height/depth with image based painting. The “zero” height of this Layer corresponds to “middle gray” or (127, 127, 127). darker values will create valleys and lighter values will create peaks.

Glossiness: White represents maximum Glossiness. Black represents absolutely no Glossiness, with shades of gray representing intermediate values. The Color layer of the Alpha’s alpha transparency also determines where Glossiness painting occurs.

Erase Mask: This layer is used to create alphas that ignore certain values, in other layers, while painting.

Tiff file import 

1 CH: A&H
2 CH: 1 – A 2 –H
3 CH: 1, 2, 3 – RGB, 2 – A, H
4 CH: 1, 2, 3 – RGB, 4 – A, H
5 CH: 1, 2, 3 – RGB, 4 – A, 5 – H
6 CH: 1, 2, 3 – RGB, 4 – A, 5 – H, 6 – Spec
7 CH: 1, 2, 3 – RGB, 4 – A, 5 – H, 6 – Spec, 7 – Erase mask

But This conversion work for TIff only.

About PSD,   we set these 4 layers as  Color , HegihtMap,  Specular,  Erasemask ,   then 3d coat can generate brush alpha from imported PSD file.

I actually like the way, to separate maps for each prupose . we can use different map with use adjusted Hegith map by same brush alpha.  Recent version correct way to use Concave and Convex with grey scale (middle grey = zero height)   

But I do not know, when I  export 16bit PNG (all channell), how 3d coat generate "Brush alpha" about these 4 separate map. Maybe I can only geneate (3d coat can read)

without layer (or 3d coat will ignore I think)  .

So my question is,, if I generate 16bit SRGB as PNG, then import it as "Brush Alpha", how 3d coat generate these 4 maps?  it may only use "alpha" channell?

I could get infomation from tip,

menu.thumb.png.7829c7643bfc9d7ff51fe8228fc88810.png

 

but it is really complex for me ^^;

 

Then I decide to request, new "brush Alpha editor" which work as same as PBR material editor import each texture for shaper properties.

Because after all 3d coat "brush  Alpha"  use 4 maps. so if I can import texture separately  for each maps " Color , HegihtMap,  Specular,  Erasemask"  per "Brush Alpha"

 user (include non photo shop user) can easy make "Brush Alpha" more free.   though I hope to use PSD layer way, but at least I can generate 16bit PNG.

then import it for HeightMap.   it seems more clear. (after all 3d coat can not use 16bit for Color right?) 

 
Edited by tokikake
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  • Carlosan changed the title to 16-bit alpha inside 3D-Coat ?
  • Carlosan pinned this topic

3DC 2023.07

 

- The important changes for ALPHAS: now alphas imported from images (including exr) may be mixed positive and negative, it allows making more realistic skin details. Negative alphas work for draw/extrude-like brushes in sculpt room.

Additional option - Alphas may be imported as rounds with accurate falloff, it simplifies making alphas from the raw textures a lot. This option available in alphas palette or using drag&drop.

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3 hours ago, Carlosan said:

3DC 2023.07

 

- The important changes for ALPHAS: now alphas imported from images (including exr) may be mixed positive and negative, it allows making more realistic skin details. Negative alphas work for draw/extrude-like brushes in sculpt room.

Additional option - Alphas may be imported as rounds with accurate falloff, it simplifies making alphas from the raw textures a lot. This option available in alphas palette or using drag&drop.

Hi Carlosan, I had already seen about this great news, thanks for updating the information in this topic and letting everyone know about it.

I really appreciate it and it's great that 3DCoat can automatically do this process of letting the textures or alphas be applied directly on the surface of the mesh without that famous step effect caused by the lack of the correct setting of the "midvalue" value.

I would like to comment on one thing that maybe... could help to improve this
subject even more.
So, the option for the user to be able to do this process manually would be very welcome.
Because most of the times, unfortunately the automatic way does not always give the desired result that the user is looking for.

Therefore, alongside the automatic way, one more way of doing this process could be added, which would be a manual and non-destructive process that could be adjusted at any time according to the user's needs.
This manual way would be very useful and could be as follows:

For any selected alpha/texture:
We could have an icon or button that would allow access to the following commands for the respective selected alpha or texture:
1- Texture bias (This command is the manual adjustment if its use is necessary).
2- Auto bias (I think this is the command used by 3DCoat to automatically generate textures / alphas for users).
3- Graph curves:
   3.1) Use Forward falloff,
   3.2) Left/right falloff,
   3.3) Radial falloff.

image.png.3303ccc0ee596fe3d57594b0f42463be.png

4- Buttons: Copy and Paste the settings made from an alpha / texture to other alpha / texture... and thus speed up the process (And if needed, further tweaks can be made until the particular alpha is the way you want it).
image.png.c0d4a71b319d61042cd0641b9857b8fa.png


In my humble opinion, this manual process would give us the possibility to have full and complete control for any alpha/texture that exists within 3DCoat.

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