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3D Coat Trial Version 4.8.32 - Many Bugs?

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Hopefully a change in the order and color code them tabs would help with common workflows.  Sculpt   Retopo  (blue)     Paint  (1/2 blue to orange)   Tweak  UV  (orange)     Render (white)  Workflow #1  bring in/start in sculpt room then on to retopo  room (use the UV tools in retopo)  then to paint room.   Workflow #2  Bring in to Paint room  use Tweak room and UV room .  The Paint room is both the end of one workflow and the Start of another . any visual identity would help new users . I had the same problems with it 3 years ago .   

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3 hours ago, Sorda said:

As far as I can see, instead of correcting a bunch of bugs in the sculpture room, where the Coat is really strong, and because of bugs and departures, it cannot approach the zbrash, the last four updates are for some reason directed towards the drawing room, while products where drawing a mesh is much faster and more convenient (like SP2). Instead of trying to catch up with a locomotive that has long gone, it is better to make absolutely stable what already works well. However, the developers do not understand this. I described 20 bugs and suggestions on the mantis, but they receive almost no response, as I said, instead, efforts are directed to the drawing room. 

 

 

Did you read "bugs" in the title and you wanted to bring your negativity to the thread? LOL please.

This thread actually is not even about bugs, it is about a new person who doesn't know 3DCoat and can't understand what's going on. It´s not about bugs anymore, every program has a way of working and I am trying to help the person to understand how to work around 3DCoat.

Also, Substance Painter is actually a pretty mediocre painting program, but guess what? PBR is about Albedo, metalness, roughness, etc which any program, even a website can do nowdays. The only strength about Substance Painter is being able to work with Substance Designer files, and that's it. it doesn't even support radial Symmetry or anything but 1 plane mirror system, it doesn't support curves, or text, it only supports blur as a filter so you can't easily blur what you paint, it doesn't even support a real position system for the smart materials you have to create a position map for that to happen, it doesn't even support a real way of painting the Height/Normals and being recognized on the bake for that to happen they had to create the anchor points which is a horrible way of doing things, better than before, but still crappy. You can't really preview anything when you bake in Substance Painter, it is slow, you can only guess the cage you are doing, you don't even get skew correction, it is really slow. So if you think that's better, it shows you haven't even used 3DCoat for painting. Yes, 3DCoat can be unstable and not perfect especially when you work with smart materials attached to layers. But since it is all about Albedo, normal map, roughness, metalness etc, the result is all that matters. 

Substance Painter has pluses obviously, like how it can fit a workflow like when Epic made Paragon and they used it to make masks and use the masks with the great material graph from UE4. But it doesn't mean it is the greatest painting program on earth, the only plus you get is that most people use it so you get easy materials everywhere for free or cheap. It is actually more limited in terms of painting, unless you have Designer and you can do workarounds for the many missing features like the way they supported text inside Substance Painter.

 

Sounds like you are one of those people that if they don't fix the few bugs you might encounter, the next day of reporting, Developers don't understand anything and are doing nothing but scratching their butts on every new update (even if they already said that the work has been mostly on the so called and so needed Sculpting layers that everyone has been asking for years), causing your little crusade against 3DCoat developers, even to the point of telling that the program is ****** with such disrespect only because you threw some cheap bucks at their program (if you even did that). Sounds more like excuses, like if other software didn't have bugs, it's exactly what I see with people who barely use Maya, but complain at Autodesk for bringing "buggy features", but when they bring hundred of bugfixes it is still a bad program, they might not even know how to use 10% of Maya but they complain about it without trying to workaround bugs, really learn how to do anything on it, and if it is too bad, then stop using it and move on.

 

You are not helping the thread, you haven't even read what this is all about, but you wanted to add your negativity that has NOTHING to do with the thread and the problems the NEW user is encountering with the workflow. Yes, the workflow might not be the most intuitive at times and that's why I am trying to help a new user instead of just focusing on imaginary bugs from your fantasy land that have nothing to do with his videos, his problems and this thread at all.

So please, if you are not going to help him, move on. 

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How many acid words about anything. I have been using this program for a year, I bought it, and for a year I see how bugs migrate from version to version. 

In fact, all that you wrote here is that you are rude to me and you wrote what a substance painter is bad (because you do not know how to work in it, judging by your words).

And finally, read the title of the topic. You tell me about drawing, I'm talking about the whole program. As it is written in the title of the topic. 

Edited by Sorda

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@Emi

I think its a fair point to say there are some issues and they seem to be addressed by more experience user working around the issues.  It would be great if some of these things could be address for new users.

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2 hours ago, Freelance Games said:

@Emi

I think its a fair point to say there are some issues and they seem to be addressed by more experience user working around the issues.  It would be great if some of these things could be address for new users.

I already posted everything I saw on your video, from the crash from the other videos to the way of doing everything you are trying to do. They are workflow issues because you are a new user, the crash is just the obvious thing of trying to replace a reference mesh with some small low poly retopo mesh. There is not much to day to what I already said about that, everything was easily "fixed" by knowing the program. But they are not bugs, and any bug discussion isn't something valid anymore after your last video, it is you just not knowing 3DCoat and that's understandable.

Edited by Emi

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@Freelance Games

I never used the Autopo to import an object into the sculpt room. but it works in my computer, I would guess that your problem is the scaling of the object and that's the reason you can't see it. When I did the Autopo way (that I never did before) the object was small and I had to zoom in alot to have it in a nice size.

I still would advice to use the "normal" way using the Import button in thee Sculpt room. Only thing you need to make sure is to uncheck import without voxelation. and the result should be the same but you can control more where the mesh is, scaling and all that. 

Also, the Perform Retopology for high meshes that talks about importing huge meshes into sculpt room, which I mentioned on my post yesterday, It might work, but I don't trust automatic things, so I think it is 100% good, since I tested it and it worked on some and not on others and it was just easier to go and do it manually with the normal import button that seems to import things fine all the time.

But you can see in the VoxTree that it shows something was imported. so it might be too big, or too small or in other place but the center. I can see a small black dot in the middle of the viewport that could be that. so click on the ALL button to frame on all the objects. 

 

And then the rest of what I said in my last post will still remind the same, about what was wrong before and it is wrong on the last video and part of the new video. Again, don't import as reference mesh, use the other button if you use Perform Retopology or use the import button on sculpt without voxelation or check the scale of the object with Autopo import thing. To be honest, I don't know why the person uses Autopo and not the Import button, but then, the version the person is using in the video is 4.7 and maybe by that time, couple years ago, maybe autopo was the easier and more stable way? or the easier since you dont have to deal with the dialog? I don't know, but since you get an actually dialog and you only need to check settings and click apply, I don't see anything bad about doing it manually though import command. Autopo works though but still dont understand why not the import button.

Edited by Emi

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your object is probably  there just small  try using transform tool to see its position the 3 boxes then the    X BUTTON will (hit it)  move it too the center.  also try  Shift-A  TO GO to it.

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I actually just delt with this importing for retopology issue while I was doing a art test for a job interview a couple weeks ago. I modeled the whole thing in LightWave and wanted to do the painting and UV in 3DC. So I did kinda what was in the video above, from the start screen imported for UVs and I got nothing. The problem might be the same with importing for retopo. I remembered that the mesh has to have a UV map already on it, which is kind of backwards. So I went back to LightWave and and a super simple UV. Didn't even bother making it look nice. Once in 3DC I could create a new map and delete the bad one.

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If you start in the Sculpt Room, what is the correct import to bring in a model with multiple parts?  I understood, it was the import button in in the command in the Sculpt Room?  However, when I import that way when I go to the Retopo room, the mesh isn't there?

 

Thanks

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3 hours ago, Freelance Games said:

If you start in the Sculpt Room, what is the correct import to bring in a model with multiple parts?  I understood, it was the import button in in the command in the Sculpt Room?  However, when I import that way when I go to the Retopo room, the mesh isn't there?

 

Thanks

If you bring it from other 3D program, it should respect groups and stuff like that correctly in different layers. Well, at least it works with Maya and Zbrush, and I don't have a problem to manually set up my stuff in Maya and name objects and organize everything to also help the 3DCoat with the "name correspondence for baking" and stuff like that. if you need to import multiple OBJ/FBX files, you will have to do it one by one with the import command, which to me is the easiest way since you can visualize everything you are doing. The command in File that says "import multiple objects" it doesn't work for this because it imports the objects as Voxels so one by one, would be the best in my opinion.

About Import command... did you hit apply? when you click import and select the mesh, what you see is not the version you are importing but you are just previewing what you will import so you can place it and transform it the way you want, until you hit apply. Then you click on another tool to make it disappear or select another mesh to import. Then, it will appear in Retopo. I mean, 3DCoat can't just not show it, because that's 3DCoat's job and that's the way it is designed to work, since you are meant to retopologize the high poly sculpt you create.

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It's very fun to watch how some people protect the glitches of the program, explaining this by the short-sightedness of the users themselves who have fallen into these bugs, while others try to do everything as it is done in a normal way in other programs, but again they have nothing to do and they think that something is doing wrong.

And all of what? From the lack of normal support and, again, a huge number of bugs. What works for some may absolutely not work for others. Depending on the position of the stars in the sky, the version, but even irrespective of whether it was a pirated or licensed Windows, whether the program was purchased or downloaded from torrents. My good friend version from .25 to .32 worked flawlessly, and at 34 there were bugs that I did not have.

It's very nice that the old code has existed since those years from which even Blender has been rewritten from the moment of version 2.49(ten years ago, bro) and has not experienced tons of critical bugs since then. People do not understand this, and those who explain it to them are either banned, or called trolls, or rude, as some of them are.

I described a lot of bugs with the video process of how they happen. And what do I get? Nothing. No answer, no greeting. Some louts write above, they say, if something is not corrected at this very minute after the bug report, it means everything is bad, no, it is not. Everything is bad, this is when you write three times during the year about the same bug and it appears in the release version. For some boors, this will be a revelation, obviously. 

 

And when you spend time recording a video, describing these bugs, in the hope that, in general, a good program will become even better, so that thousands of people will know about it, just as zbrash is known and even now Blender, and in return you get rudeness from some users, a ban, and almost no feedback in terms of correcting errors - this is sad. It gives the impression that someone just doesn't care. At the same time, I do not understand how paid software contains such a number of errors, while the Blender team, which includes only a few people more, living in fact only for donat (not without sponsors of course), produces a product that is stable on 99%, and for which it is written, as I understand it, there are already more than a hundred different supplements. For some cad above, let it be new information, before writing any nonsense to me and about me.

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On 3/6/2019 at 9:17 AM, Emi said:

Did you read "bugs" in the title and you wanted to bring your negativity to the thread? LOL please.

This thread actually is not even about bugs, it is about a new person who doesn't know 3DCoat and can't understand what's going on. It´s not about bugs anymore, every program has a way of working and I am trying to help the person to understand how to work around 3DCoat.

Also, Substance Painter is actually a pretty mediocre painting program, but guess what? PBR is about Albedo, metalness, roughness, etc which any program, even a website can do nowdays. The only strength about Substance Painter is being able to work with Substance Designer files, and that's it. it doesn't even support radial Symmetry or anything but 1 plane mirror system, it doesn't support curves, or text, it only supports blur as a filter so you can't easily blur what you paint, it doesn't even support a real position system for the smart materials you have to create a position map for that to happen, it doesn't even support a real way of painting the Height/Normals and being recognized on the bake for that to happen they had to create the anchor points which is a horrible way of doing things, better than before, but still crappy. You can't really preview anything when you bake in Substance Painter, it is slow, you can only guess the cage you are doing, you don't even get skew correction, it is really slow. So if you think that's better, it shows you haven't even used 3DCoat for painting. Yes, 3DCoat can be unstable and not perfect especially when you work with smart materials attached to layers. But since it is all about Albedo, normal map, roughness, metalness etc, the result is all that matters. 

Substance Painter has pluses obviously, like how it can fit a workflow like when Epic made Paragon and they used it to make masks and use the masks with the great material graph from UE4. But it doesn't mean it is the greatest painting program on earth, the only plus you get is that most people use it so you get easy materials everywhere for free or cheap. It is actually more limited in terms of painting, unless you have Designer and you can do workarounds for the many missing features like the way they supported text inside Substance Painter.

 

Sounds like you are one of those people that if they don't fix the few bugs you might encounter, the next day of reporting, Developers don't understand anything and are doing nothing but scratching their butts on every new update (even if they already said that the work has been mostly on the so called and so needed Sculpting layers that everyone has been asking for years), causing your little crusade against 3DCoat developers, even to the point of telling that the program is ****** with such disrespect only because you threw some cheap bucks at their program (if you even did that). Sounds more like excuses, like if other software didn't have bugs, it's exactly what I see with people who barely use Maya, but complain at Autodesk for bringing "buggy features", but when they bring hundred of bugfixes it is still a bad program, they might not even know how to use 10% of Maya but they complain about it without trying to workaround bugs, really learn how to do anything on it, and if it is too bad, then stop using it and move on.

 

You are not helping the thread, you haven't even read what this is all about, but you wanted to add your negativity that has NOTHING to do with the thread and the problems the NEW user is encountering with the workflow. Yes, the workflow might not be the most intuitive at times and that's why I am trying to help a new user instead of just focusing on imaginary bugs from your fantasy land that have nothing to do with his videos, his problems and this thread at all.

So please, if you are not going to help him, move on. 

I didn't start using 3d coat yet because of health issue but i am very confident it will crash a lot less than 3ds max and probably have fewer bugs! 3ds max cost an arm i use it for 17 years and old bugs follow from version to version like the patch tool not displaying the segment and many others.

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