Jump to content
3DCoat Forums
Gorbatovsky

Retopo - next big Step

Recommended Posts

On 3/15/2019 at 8:40 AM, tokikake said:

I do not know, how I call the primitive,, but easy make shape from spline curve

Hi 

This new tool was added on latest version 4.8.35.

Please take a look

- Curves got really rich update. Now it is possibly to construct many different shapes using curves in non-destructive way. Click RMB over the curve and look at the list of modifiers. There are videos that describe how it works:
  Swept Surface 1 - https://youtu.be/8BCawmVqGK4
  Creating a surface of revolution - https://youtu.be/XdYuoaNIwsA
  Polyhedron - https://youtu.be/c7Xld8udEXM
  Swept Surface 2 - https://youtu.be/pLkBVx8vKPI
  Swept Surface 3 - https://youtu.be/p8g6pn_810s
  Sword - https://youtu.be/Qyy-aqPG1iY
  Goose - https://youtu.be/f9mY5wlvvwA

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks AbnRanger, your video  remember  me  to use primitive tools of Retopo room.  (I almost forget, there were already primitive tools in retopo room too:blush:

Usually I just import from stamp, and forgot,  I could use rattice for those stamp mesh. (with primitive tool asctive)

Are you those 3d coat video author?  I really thanks you work for these videos.  I really  enjoy and learn most of videos.  Without your videos I could not understand how each tool or room work^^;

 

Thanks Carlosan to report many good news ^_^ there seems many new future for curves.

Then some of them will be added for retopo room too?  I had not expected so many up-date,   but I hoped if beta will offer this tool (in pic) .

retopomeshspintool.thumb.JPG.0f2114be1c1b51dea3f3fd6f03b1ea6c.JPG

or I hope to see kind of blender 2.8 new spin tool.

spin28.thumb.JPG.a606cf6d6d5d61521c665c1b148f19bc.JPG

Though these are not same function,. hope to see them in 3d coat retopo room as future requeset ^^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/13/2019 at 3:57 PM, Gorbatovsky said:

Andrew spoke me about Wings3D.

Today we spoke with Stas that the room Retopo should be divided.

I was thinking about tokikake and other user request... may be i was wrong, and we dont need to ask for Surface Modeler BUT CAD Room.

I refer to the possibility of creating and manipulating nurbs surfaces and transforming them into voxels or surfaces. Let's take Rhino, MOI, Fusion360, Freecad as examples.

Non-destructive modeling of surfaces using nurbs and booleans, ready to be used in industrial design and print manufacturing or in the entertainment industry... infinite possibilities would open.

On 3/19/2009 at 4:05 AM, Andrew Shpagin said:

If you mean possibility to create and manipulate nurbs surfaces and transform them to voxels, it is not so hard to do, just time question (as always). 

There is very good SDK - http://www.opennurbs.org/ and I plan to use it or 3DC.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, tokikake said:

there seems many new future for curves.

Then some of them will be added for retopo room too?

I think, than new future for curves will be added for retopo room also. In next release.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/15/2019 at 8:06 PM, gbball said:

Also look at Digital Fossils program NVil  please it offers an excellent workflow.

I'm a little bit torn about what I'm about to say now because I like 3D Coat a lot and have been using it for many years (and will still continue to use it), but in my opinion none of the retopo solutions currently available on the market (including Houdini's TopoBuild, which, even as a long time Houdini user, I don't understand why everyone is so excited about as it doesn't offer anything new) can compare to NVil's Draw Mesh SteamLine tool feature wise. For me this tool offers the most efficient semi-automatic retopo right now, and NVil has been my "go to" app for this kind of jobs ever since this tool was developed (to a point where I spent two years trying to run it under WINE, as it's totally windows app unfortunately - but it works on 3.20).

When Farsthary first announced that he is working on new retopo tools (and it was way before the Draw Mesh work even begun, I think), I imagined that those tools would look exactly like Draw Mesh. You draw main edge loops and let the algorithm generate the fill geometry for you. This is extremely productive because you don't have to waste your time to draw geometry that needs to follow some kind of rules anyway, and as thus shouldn't need your attention at all (or should require your minimal attention at most).

But Draw Mesh isn't the tool on its own in the retopo process. When retopologizing an asset in NVil, you still have access to the full modelling suite offered by the program. And its modeling toolset is pretty damn powerful. In my eyes way more powerful than what Blender 2.8 have to offer at its current state (minus modifiers, because NVil doesn't have them).

Pilgway could make some sort of a deal with DigitalFossils in order to combine forces against some of the more powerful competition. Because why the hell not? Maybe it's worth a try to get to some form of agreement? We could get the best semi-automatic retopo algorithms available on the market, powerful modeling solution and excellent sculpting/texturing software combined together in one superpackage. Let's kick the new ZRemesher ass by giving the user more control on his retopo mesh. ;)

You can watch Draw Mesh in action (on a 3DC-made sculpture) on my playlist, but do note that this is an old demo of very early Draw Mesh version, and since those videos were recorded, many improvements have been introduced to that tool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44ndpC8lMO0&list=PLNPeRk-wjBGiod2fk0YSaYCK0Oh6JpMQj

 

Edited by ajz3d
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ajz3d said:

I'm a little bit torn about what I'm about to say now because I like 3D Coat a lot and have been using it for many years (and will still continue to use it), but in my opinion none of the retopo solutions currently available on the market (including Houdini's TopoBuild, which, even as a long time Houdini user, I don't understand why everyone is so excited about as it doesn't offer anything new) can compare to NVil's Draw Mesh SteamLine tool feature wise. For me this tool offers the most efficient semi-automatic retopo right now, and NVil has been my "go to" app for this kind of jobs ever since this tool was developed (to a point where I spent two years trying to run it under WINE, as it's totally windows app unfortunately - but it works on 3.20).

When Farsthary first announced that he is working on new retopo tools (and it was way before the Draw Mesh work even begun, I think), I imagined that those tools would look exactly like Draw Mesh. You draw main edge loops and let the algorithm generate the fill geometry for you. This is extremely productive because you don't have to waste your time to draw geometry that needs to follow some kind of rules anyway, and as thus shouldn't need your attention at all (or should require your minimal attention at most).

But Draw Mesh isn't the tool on its own in the retopo process. When retopologizing an asset in NVil, you still have access to the full modelling suite offered by the program. And its modeling toolset is pretty damn powerful. In my eyes way more powerful than what Blender 2.8 have to offer at its current state (minus modifiers, because NVil doesn't have them).

Pilgway could make some sort of a deal with DigitalFossils in order to combine forces against some of the more powerful competition. Because why the hell not? Maybe it's worth a try to get to some form of agreement? We could get the best semi-automatic retopo algorithms available on the market, powerful modeling solution and excellent sculpting/texturing software combined together in one superpackage. Let's kick the new ZRemesher ass by giving the user more control on his retopo mesh. ;)

You can watch Draw Mesh in action (on a 3DC-made sculpture) on my playlist, but do note that this is an old demo of very early Draw Mesh version, and since those videos were recorded, many improvements have been introduced to that tool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44ndpC8lMO0&list=PLNPeRk-wjBGiod2fk0YSaYCK0Oh6JpMQj

 

I like your thinking. Send Andrew an e-mail. A really robust modeling toolset would set 3DCoat apart, especially if it had non-destructive booleans.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, tokikake said:

Thanks AbnRanger, your video  remember  me  to use primitive tools of Retopo room.  (I almost forget, there were already primitive tools in retopo room too:blush:

Usually I just import from stamp, and forgot,  I could use rattice for those stamp mesh. (with primitive tool asctive)

Are you those 3d coat video author?  I really thanks you work for these videos.  I really  enjoy and learn most of videos.  Without your videos I could not understand how each tool or room work^^;

 

Thanks Carlosan to report many good news ^_^ there seems many new future for curves.

Then some of them will be added for retopo room too?  I had not expected so many up-date,   but I hoped if beta will offer this tool (in pic) .

retopomeshspintool.thumb.JPG.0f2114be1c1b51dea3f3fd6f03b1ea6c.JPG

or I hope to see kind of blender 2.8 new spin tool.

spin28.thumb.JPG.a606cf6d6d5d61521c665c1b148f19bc.JPG

Though these are not same function,. hope to see them in 3d coat retopo room as future requeset ^^

Thanks for the kind words. Yes, most of the videos on the Youtube Channel. I agree, it would be helpful to have the Lathe tool added to the Primitives, to build nice, quad-based shapes.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry but ... why waste time and dev effort in adding an appendix to the program if blender is free, rocket3f is free and nvil costs 60us ?

If we have to stick strictly to the development of retopo room, my proposal is to pay close attention to unfold3d-rizomlab. If you do not know it, buy it or download a trial, try the workflow and features to have a clear idea of how it works. That software is pure magic and I hope to have the same performance and tools that this software offers within 3Dcoat.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree. I think that 3d-coat dosen't gain much a new users if they add modelling tools. There is already so many options out there, ether paid or free. The winner of "Jack of all trades" is going to be blender, and I hope
that 3d-coat dosen't start to compete with that race with blender because it's going to lose that one for sure. Best thing for 3d-coat is to keep focus on texturing-retopo-sculpting and beeing innovate in those areas. 

That's said it's good that retopo room gets some love but if that love is only adding new tools then I think it's maybe not the best way to go...
 

Edited by haikalle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In that logic why bother with sculpting tools when there is a ZBrush and it's going to be the winner. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not aggressive here by any means.

Is there a big difference between retopo tools and low-poly modeling tools? Actually it's not that big.

Edited by druh0o

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@druh0o I understand. I don't get any aggressive from you and hope you feel the same with my respond. Zbrush might be the winner, but adding modelling tools in 3d-coat would mean 
that now 3d-coat compete with zbrush and blender(other 3d modelling app).  That might be too much to take.  

I use 3D-coat because it's UI is better than zbrush and it's more powerful than mudbox. For me it hits in the sweet spot. 

I'm not against of bringing new tools for retopo room but I do hope that retopo room would keep the strong focus linking data from sculpt room into paint room.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm trying to count a number of apps 3d-coat compete with right now: in sculpting, retopo, PBR texture painting, handpainted texture painting, even rendering...:o

Oh, and UV-mapping! How could I forget!

Edited by druh0o

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, druh0o said:

I'm trying to count a number of apps 3d-coat compete with right now: in sculpting, retopo, PBR texture painting, handpainted texture painting, even rendering...:o

I agree. It's long list already :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see what Carlosan said, but  I have never thought 3d coat to use full modeling,  Then actually there were already basic tools to generate basic shapes,   then I just hope to add or enhance some tools in retopo room (modeling for  retopo mesh or paint mesh = clean poligons).   I do not plan to compare blender and 3d coat as modeling tool.

eg I do not plan to request  to add "modifiers" or" add on" which I often use  in blender,  for 3d coat, but subsurf modifier may be expected  for  baking process I think.

And  the spin tool is not so real complex thing, it just expand "Extrude" with rotation, with some options.  we can do almost same thing with current retopo room,  transform 
(with use commit extrude) but need to manually change angle and do same step one by one.

I feel to  generate simple Rotating body with add some options, there may be room 3d coat can add it as tool in retopo room I feel.:) 

Of course, I do not serch around what 3d coat do not offer ,compare with other 3d aprications.  But just offer request which I may hope to use it often in 3d coat as base shape.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Gorbatovsky I started to make a list improments what I would like to see in retopo room. There is no any new tool feature request in that list. Only how we should make the current workflow even better/faster.
 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/16/2019 at 12:31 AM, Gorbatovsky said:

Pivot point using in Sculpt Room now.

We will add this to Retopo at next Release.

Thank you mr. Gorbatovsky!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am following this topic that is very important and I would like to thank Gorbatovsky for the initiative to create this topic asking users for help to improve the Retopo Room.
What do 3D-Coat users expect Gorbatovsky to develop?

So there were several questions in my head:
What is the main objective of the Retopo Room? What I really mean is, what is the path that the Retopo Room should take? What can we expect from this new Retopo Room process?

- Would Retopo Room only serve to carry out the Retopology process with more robust and powerful tools for this purpose?
- Would Retopo Room become a program that could perform modeling similar to Blender / Maya / 3DS Max?

- Would Retopo Room have more interactivity with the Sculpt Room? That is, a workflow that would allow the user at any time to edit and repair a mesh that was in the Sculpt Room using the Retopo Room?

- With so many possibilities and suggestions, would it be possible to split the Retopo Room and create a new Room that could be called "Modeling Room"?

I have seen great suggestions from existing marketing programs like:
- NVil (commented by gbball) and other programs.

I'm a sculptor, I work a lot in the Sculpt Room, more precisely in Surface Mode and that's not the reason I'll turn my back on the improvement of the Retopo Room saying that since I do not use the Retopo Room frequently, I will not care improvement of this 3D-Coat Room. On the contrary I really want the Retopo Room to be improved because it is sure to be part of my workflow in the future and I will also be benefited by these improvements.

In my opinion, I think we could take more care with the direction of the development of this Room in relation to a Workflow more friendly and easy for users to understand and achieve their goal with the best quality possible.
I think there could be a much greater interactivity with the Sculpt Room, because if you want to use some tool in the Retopo Room, you need to convert the mesh to Polygons using Autopo or something. I've already seen a video of AbnRanger that he demonstrates using the Retopo Room to close a hole in a mesh of the Sculpt Room. The problem is that in the Sculpt Room, the Boolean system of the Surface Room, is not exactly what I would expect and most of the time when you try to use some Boolean operation 3D-Coat fails and an error message appears saying several reasons that do not possible to perform the operation.
That's one of the reasons I say we could have a better interaction between Sculpt Room and Retopo Room.

In my opinion, in addition to this improved interactivity between Sculpt Room and Retopo Room, we could have a system that does any mesh in the Retopo Room and if that mesh has UVs, these Uvs could be used in the Sculpt Room to perform more detailing using "Maps of Textures" in the same mesh that would be in the Sculpt Room.
There could be several good things like creating polygroups that exist in Meshmixer and ZBrush in the Retopo Room that could be transferred to the mesh in the Sculpt Room.
Imagine the innumerable possibilities of this mix of functions between the Retopo Room and the Sculpt Room.

I would love to see a mix of tools like the NVil and Blender program (as well as other programs as well) within the Retopo Room. It would be fantastic!
It would be wonderful to have an improvement in the system of the tool interface, with icons that appeared of possible functions and facilitated the manipulation of the tool.

I realize and I see people seeing the Retopo Room as if it were just like a program apart from the rest of the Rooms. That's not cool. I think we could see a better workflow between the Rooms. I think this thought comes back because users use Zbrush and then come to do the Retopology inside the 3D-Coat. I have nothing against these users, people are free to carry out the workflow they want, but I think... could be more focused on the Workflow within the 3D-Coat, strengthening the interactivity between the rooms and making 3D-Coat more unique of what it already is.
3D-Coat with better interactivity and compatibility between the tools of Rooms: Sculpt Room, Paint Room, Retopo Room would be a powerful combination never seen before.
Sorry for anything, but that's my thinking.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Rygaard I agree. 

This is the source of continuous problems: New users dont understand that Paint Objects, Retopo Objects and Sculpt Objects are not the same, they are not connected.

Using any other app, you work over the same mesh adding hierarchy or modifiers, 3DCoat works like several different programs that use the same display, with a design very similar to the separation of lightwave between layout and modeler. Or similar design found on old CAD app, where users need to switch in between workbenches. 

Will it ever be possible to work in a future version that unifies the workflow and allows us to work in one single mesh in all the rooms, or better yet, stop working with rooms and work on menu sets ?

maya manu set.jpg

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 @Carlosan , I also agree with you.

Before I start using a program, I always try to know the workflow of this program. For me, at that time when I discovered that 3D-Coat existed, it was very difficult and extremely confusing to understand how 3D-Coat works with Rooms. I could not understand why the same mesh was not used in all the Rooms and only appeared in certain Rooms. It was as if I used different programs and at the same time did not communicate with each other or that there was no compatibility. I kept wondering how this was possible if I'm using the same program?

As @Carlosan spoke and I completely agree, 3D-Coat literally separates your Rooms and does not allow for a fluid and interactive workflow between Rooms.
I completely agree with @Carlosan working with Menu Sets or Layouts for each type of task configured and customized by the user that corresponds to a particular job of the user.

I know this would be a reason for a deeper and more rational discussion of what the strategy of merging the Rooms would be like and working with Menus Sets or Layouts. So if anyone has an interest in this I will create a new Topic so that all of us together can debate and present solutions and suggestions for this important step of 3D-Coat:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/13/2019 at 8:49 AM, Gorbatovsky said:

Andrew told me, that I needed to work on the Retopo room with love.
We need to make excellent tools so that the work gives you only pleasure and satisfaction.
I want to hear your advice.

Hi 

As you know, there was a developer @farsthary before you making tools for retopo room that were unfinished.

Andrew said that it was possible to continue improving them, but that was not possible:

On 4/13/2017 at 12:43 PM, Andrew Shpagin said:

Even if Raul no longer works, he still may update tools. If there will be clear feedback what to do - I will send request, and he will finish what feels unfinished.


Is it in your agenda to finish the missing work and improve it, or to create new tools that do the same work but with more modern developments?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/20/2019 at 7:39 AM, Gorbatovsky said:

We will add more primitives to the Retopo room.

New Primitives in Retopo room is a nice add, but why1 and how2 ?

1 - Adding new low poly primitives remains me ZModeler. (This popup could be migrate to Low Poly Modeling task at new room)

2 - And a feature really missed on Retopo Room for placing primitives is ON PEN. Please look this video and if is possible add the same command on pen to retopo primitives transform-apply popup

 

Thx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Carlosan said:

Is it in your agenda to finish the missing work and improve it, or to create new tools that do the same work but with more modern developments?

Carlos,  I'd spoke with Andrew about it.

He said it was easier to do everything from scratch.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×