Retopo Room - Next Steps

[druh0o]

In that logic why bother with sculpting tools when there is a ZBrush and it's going to be the winner. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not aggressive here by any means.

Is there a big difference between retopo tools and low-poly modeling tools? Actually it's not that big.

Edited March 18, 2019 by druh0o

[haikalle]

@druh0o I understand. I don't get any aggressive from you and hope you feel the same with my respond. Zbrush might be the winner, but adding modelling tools in 3d-coat would mean 
that now 3d-coat compete with zbrush and blender(other 3d modelling app).  That might be too much to take.  

I use 3D-coat because it's UI is better than zbrush and it's more powerful than mudbox. For me it hits in the sweet spot. 

I'm not against of bringing new tools for retopo room but I do hope that retopo room would keep the strong focus linking data from sculpt room into paint room.

[druh0o]

I'm trying to count a number of apps 3d-coat compete with right now: in sculpting, retopo, PBR texture painting, handpainted texture painting, even rendering...

Oh, and UV-mapping! How could I forget!

Edited March 18, 2019 by druh0o

[haikalle]

1 minute ago, druh0o said:

I'm trying to count a number of apps 3d-coat compete with right now: in sculpting, retopo, PBR texture painting, handpainted texture painting, even rendering...

I agree. It's long list already

[tokikake]

I see what Carlosan said, but  I have never thought 3d coat to use full modeling,  Then actually there were already basic tools to generate basic shapes,   then I just hope to add or enhance some tools in retopo room (modeling for  retopo mesh or paint mesh = clean poligons).   I do not plan to compare blender and 3d coat as modeling tool.

eg I do not plan to request  to add "modifiers" or" add on" which I often use  in blender,  for 3d coat, but subsurf modifier may be expected  for  baking process I think.

And  the spin tool is not so real complex thing, it just expand "Extrude" with rotation, with some options.  we can do almost same thing with current retopo room,  transform 
(with use commit extrude) but need to manually change angle and do same step one by one.

I feel to  generate simple Rotating body with add some options, there may be room 3d coat can add it as tool in retopo room I feel. 

Of course, I do not serch around what 3d coat do not offer ,compare with other 3d aprications.  But just offer request which I may hope to use it often in 3d coat as base shape.

[haikalle]

@Gorbatovsky I started to make a list improments what I would like to see in retopo room. There is no any new tool feature request in that list. Only how we should make the current workflow even better/faster.
 

 

[MaxC]

On 3/16/2019 at 12:31 AM, Gorbatovsky said:

Pivot point using in Sculpt Room now.

We will add this to Retopo at next Release.

Thank you mr. Gorbatovsky!

[Gorbatovsky]

1 hour ago, haikalle said:

 I started to make a list improments what I would like to see in retopo room.

Haikalle, thank you.
 

[Rygaard]

I am following this topic that is very important and I would like to thank Gorbatovsky for the initiative to create this topic asking users for help to improve the Retopo Room.
What do 3D-Coat users expect Gorbatovsky to develop?

So there were several questions in my head:
What is the main objective of the Retopo Room? What I really mean is, what is the path that the Retopo Room should take? What can we expect from this new Retopo Room process?

- Would Retopo Room only serve to carry out the Retopology process with more robust and powerful tools for this purpose?
- Would Retopo Room become a program that could perform modeling similar to Blender / Maya / 3DS Max?

- Would Retopo Room have more interactivity with the Sculpt Room? That is, a workflow that would allow the user at any time to edit and repair a mesh that was in the Sculpt Room using the Retopo Room?

- With so many possibilities and suggestions, would it be possible to split the Retopo Room and create a new Room that could be called "Modeling Room"?

I have seen great suggestions from existing marketing programs like:
- NVil (commented by gbball) and other programs.

I'm a sculptor, I work a lot in the Sculpt Room, more precisely in Surface Mode and that's not the reason I'll turn my back on the improvement of the Retopo Room saying that since I do not use the Retopo Room frequently, I will not care improvement of this 3D-Coat Room. On the contrary I really want the Retopo Room to be improved because it is sure to be part of my workflow in the future and I will also be benefited by these improvements.

In my opinion, I think we could take more care with the direction of the development of this Room in relation to a Workflow more friendly and easy for users to understand and achieve their goal with the best quality possible.
I think there could be a much greater interactivity with the Sculpt Room, because if you want to use some tool in the Retopo Room, you need to convert the mesh to Polygons using Autopo or something. I've already seen a video of AbnRanger that he demonstrates using the Retopo Room to close a hole in a mesh of the Sculpt Room. The problem is that in the Sculpt Room, the Boolean system of the Surface Room, is not exactly what I would expect and most of the time when you try to use some Boolean operation 3D-Coat fails and an error message appears saying several reasons that do not possible to perform the operation.
That's one of the reasons I say we could have a better interaction between Sculpt Room and Retopo Room.

In my opinion, in addition to this improved interactivity between Sculpt Room and Retopo Room, we could have a system that does any mesh in the Retopo Room and if that mesh has UVs, these Uvs could be used in the Sculpt Room to perform more detailing using "Maps of Textures" in the same mesh that would be in the Sculpt Room.
There could be several good things like creating polygroups that exist in Meshmixer and ZBrush in the Retopo Room that could be transferred to the mesh in the Sculpt Room.
Imagine the innumerable possibilities of this mix of functions between the Retopo Room and the Sculpt Room.

I would love to see a mix of tools like the NVil and Blender program (as well as other programs as well) within the Retopo Room. It would be fantastic!
It would be wonderful to have an improvement in the system of the tool interface, with icons that appeared of possible functions and facilitated the manipulation of the tool.

I realize and I see people seeing the Retopo Room as if it were just like a program apart from the rest of the Rooms. That's not cool. I think we could see a better workflow between the Rooms. I think this thought comes back because users use Zbrush and then come to do the Retopology inside the 3D-Coat. I have nothing against these users, people are free to carry out the workflow they want, but I think... could be more focused on the Workflow within the 3D-Coat, strengthening the interactivity between the rooms and making 3D-Coat more unique of what it already is.
3D-Coat with better interactivity and compatibility between the tools of Rooms: Sculpt Room, Paint Room, Retopo Room would be a powerful combination never seen before.
Sorry for anything, but that's my thinking.

[Gorbatovsky]

Rygaard Thank you.

Created new topic Swept Surface and probably Modeling Room

 

[Carlosan]

@Rygaard I agree. 

This is the source of continuous problems: New users dont understand that Paint Objects, Retopo Objects and Sculpt Objects are not the same, they are not connected.

Using any other app, you work over the same mesh adding hierarchy or modifiers, 3DCoat works like several different programs that use the same display, with a design very similar to the separation of lightwave between layout and modeler. Or similar design found on old CAD app, where users need to switch in between workbenches. 

Will it ever be possible to work in a future version that unifies the workflow and allows us to work in one single mesh in all the rooms, or better yet, stop working with rooms and work on menu sets ?

[Rygaard]

 @Carlosan , I also agree with you.

Before I start using a program, I always try to know the workflow of this program. For me, at that time when I discovered that 3D-Coat existed, it was very difficult and extremely confusing to understand how 3D-Coat works with Rooms. I could not understand why the same mesh was not used in all the Rooms and only appeared in certain Rooms. It was as if I used different programs and at the same time did not communicate with each other or that there was no compatibility. I kept wondering how this was possible if I'm using the same program?

As @Carlosan spoke and I completely agree, 3D-Coat literally separates your Rooms and does not allow for a fluid and interactive workflow between Rooms.
I completely agree with @Carlosan working with Menu Sets or Layouts for each type of task configured and customized by the user that corresponds to a particular job of the user.

I know this would be a reason for a deeper and more rational discussion of what the strategy of merging the Rooms would be like and working with Menus Sets or Layouts. So if anyone has an interest in this I will create a new Topic so that all of us together can debate and present solutions and suggestions for this important step of 3D-Coat:

 

[Carlosan]

On 3/13/2019 at 8:49 AM, Gorbatovsky said:

Andrew told me, that I needed to work on the Retopo room with love.
We need to make excellent tools so that the work gives you only pleasure and satisfaction.
I want to hear your advice.

Hi 

As you know, there was a developer @farsthary before you making tools for retopo room that were unfinished.

Andrew said that it was possible to continue improving them, but that was not possible:

On 4/13/2017 at 12:43 PM, Andrew Shpagin said:

Even if Raul no longer works, he still may update tools. If there will be clear feedback what to do - I will send request, and he will finish what feels unfinished.

Is it in your agenda to finish the missing work and improve it, or to create new tools that do the same work but with more modern developments?

[Carlosan]

On 3/20/2019 at 7:39 AM, Gorbatovsky said:

We will add more primitives to the Retopo room.

New Primitives in Retopo room is a nice add, but why1 and how2 ?

1 - Adding new low poly primitives remains me ZModeler. (This popup could be migrate to Low Poly Modeling task at new room)

2 - And a feature really missed on Retopo Room for placing primitives is ON PEN. Please look this video and if is possible add the same command on pen to retopo primitives transform-apply popup

 

Thx

[Gorbatovsky]

12 hours ago, Carlosan said:

Is it in your agenda to finish the missing work and improve it, or to create new tools that do the same work but with more modern developments?

Carlos,  I'd spoke with Andrew about it.

He said it was easier to do everything from scratch.

[kev00]

As someone who only needs the automated retopo tools  I'm finding that moving from the retopo room to the UV room is a bit complex.   

After I retopo I first have to bake with normal maps and then move the UV room.   

23 hours ago, Rygaard said:

 @Carlosan , I also agree with you.

Before I start using a program, I always try to know the workflow of this program. For me, at that time when I discovered that 3D-Coat existed, it was very difficult and extremely confusing to understand how 3D-Coat works with Rooms. I could not understand why the same mesh was not used in all the Rooms and only appeared in certain Rooms. It was as if I used different programs and at the same time did not communicate with each other or that there was no compatibility. I kept wondering how this was possible if I'm using the same program?
 

I agree with you.   I've been using 3d coat for over a year and I'm still confused.  

My noob workflow is as follows.  I'm trying to create quick objects for my game.  

1. Sculpt an object

2. Retopo (using auto tools only) - most of the time it never works.  I usually just end up using decimate.

3.  Bake with normal maps (I don't want to do this but it's only way I know to get the new mesh in the UV Room)

4.  The mesh then appears in the UV room.   

5.  Fix UVs and apply uv-set

6. go to the paint room and delete all the baked layers

7.  Reload 3d coat because sometimes the paint object looks all messed up

8.  Paint

9. Export. 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong please

 

 

 

Edited March 21, 2019 by kev00

[Rygaard]

31 minutes ago, kev00 said:

I agree with you.   I've been using 3d coat for over a year and I'm still confused.  

My noob workflow is as follows.  I'm trying to create quick objects for my game.  

 @kev00 Please, Could you put your comment on the topic that I created "3D-Coat: Please, unifies the workflow by fusing the Rooms - Important step for 3D-Coat". And at the same time explain how you would like and expect a workflow within 3D-Coat? Thank you very much.

[Skye]

@kev00

This is better workflow for me

1. Sculpt an object

2. Retopo 

3.  Create UV maps in retopo room

4.  Bake

5.  Switch to paint room and texture on low poly mesh

6. Export

Edited March 21, 2019 by Skye

[kev00]

2 hours ago, Rygaard said:

 @kev00 Please, Could you put your comment on the topic that I created "3D-Coat: Please, unifies the workflow by fusing the Rooms - Important step for 3D-Coat". And at the same time explain how you would like and expect a workflow within 3D-Coat? Thank you very much.

ok I will thanks

 

[kev00]

2 hours ago, Skye said:

@kev00

This is better workflow for me

1. Sculpt an object

2. Retopo 

3.  Create UV maps in retopo room

4.  Bake

5.  Switch to paint room and texture on low poly mesh

6. Export

are you suggesting this or is there a way to create UVs in retopo?   

[Skye]

Yes, once you have retopo cage created, you can mark seams and unwrap in retopo room or hit automap

[Carlosan]

People please order. 

Create a new therad if have some question.

[kev00]

21 minutes ago, Skye said:

Yes, once you have retopo cage created, you can mark seams and unwrap in retopo room or hit automap

ok I'll try that.   thanks

[RetopoBro]

Check out RetopoFlow 2.0 for some ideas how the Retopo Room could be improved

Video TimeStamps

Contours Tool: 3:27

PolyStrips Tool: 6:25

 

 

[philnolan3d]

We have that contour tool. Just use Strokes. Draw the strokes and press enter. He then uses the equivalent of Slide Edges and Split.

The polystrips one looks like our Quadstrips, though I haven't used that tool very much too be honest.

[RetopoBro]

Hi Phil,

They have a strokes tool as well called "Strokes"  =) Which is like 3d Coats Stokes tools.

Contours tool is very different when you use it, I have RetopoFlow 2 and you would be amazed at how fast contours is compared to "Strokes" tool.

Plus 3d coats strokes tool fails most of the time on thin surfaces such as clothing by falling behind the clothing and becomes useless.

That contours tool in retopoflow always rides on top no matter how thin the surface.

PolyStrips is way different then the quad tool, they have the same Quads tool as 3dCoat they call PolyPen.

Polystrips can draw out long strips of quads on a spline and be curved and edited in real time after being layed down.

[Carlosan]

@Gorbatovsky

I hope these tips are useful for your development. Are for another app, but general workflow concepts can be applied to any software.

UV tips and tricks - Part I

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/aRyyn2

[druh0o]

@Gorbatovsky

Alex, thanks for the new tools!

I think the Inset tool functionality can be added to the Extrude tools.

Right now to make something like this...

... i have to use the Extrude tool, then the Scale tool with settings like above. Or the new Inset tool, then Scale tool with different settings.

But if the Extrude tool can have its own Inset settings, this will be much faster and more intuitive.

So, if extrude = 0, then it can be the Inset tool. If inset = 0, then it just the Extrude. But when Extrude + Inset, the result can be like in the image above.

[Werner_Z]

Here is one that I think would be awesome!

Please can we have Soft radial falloff on transform and scale in the retopo room.
Here is an example from 3d Coat and Houdini.

 

[skullpy]

Having the layer locks from the paint room be included in the Retopo Objects list would be helpful