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Gorbatovsky

Swept Surface and probably Modeling Room

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Dear friends!
Let's discuss here the new surface modeling features that are available in build 4.8.35.

How can I enable the curve tool functionalities?
Edit->Preferences->Show beta tools.

 

In the topic of Retopo - next big Step, we discussed the Future of the Retopo room.

Thanks for the feedback. Let's make 3DCoat better together.

For programmers, the challenge is not to spoil what works as you have been used to for many years. :)

Сurve tool functionalities working in Sculpt Room at now.  tokikake, in the next release, this will work in the Retopo room.

Andrew said that we will make the best interaction between Sculpt Room and Retopo Room.

We will add more primitives to the Retopo room.

And the most important thing!
There are 2 workflows in Retopo Room:

- Retopo after Sculping
- Modelling LowPoly.

Perhaps you need to add another Modeling Room. To  Modeling Room need to add some functionality from Retopo Room.

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The Swept surface is created from a profile curve that moves in space along the guide.

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If the Auto-orientation option is enabled, the Profile is located at each Guide curve point so that the Profile plane is perpendicular to the tangent vector at this Guide curve point.

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If the Auto-orientation option is enabled, then you can change the angle and offset dX, dY of the profile.

 

Dx=-500

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Dx= -500

4P340LTLQVymS8glIYNEjzwSFhXIYt-e5C_IVg8p

 

 

Creating a surface of revolution 

 

 

Polyhedron 

 

Swept Surface 2 Two guide curve and one profile curve

 

Swept Surface 3  One guide curve and Two profile curve

 

 

Example of using Swept Surface N Gener

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Sword

 

Goose

 

Later we will add more user manual and video tutorials.

 

Perhaps still need to add this feature - Kinematic Surface

 

 

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Moderation note:

Opinions moved to the corresponding thread

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I understand that somebody  users may not like the fact that new surface modeling functions complicate the workflow.


There are 4 main methods of 3D modeling:

  • Low Poly
  • Free Surface
  • Parametric solid
  • Voxel Sculpting

Each method has its advantages and disadvantages.
And we can not create a golden bullet and combine, for example,  Low Poly and Voxel Sculpting.

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1 hour ago, Gorbatovsky said:

I understand that somebody  users may not like the fact that new surface modeling functions complicate the workflow.


There are 4 main methods of 3D modeling:

  • Low Poly
  • Free Surface
  • Parametric solid
  • Voxel Sculpting

Each method has its advantages and disadvantages.
And we can not create a golden bullet and combine, for example,  Low Poly and Voxel Sculpting.

Thanks for the new tools. I'm sure I will have a lot of fun with them when I have time to do some sculpting work again. 

For me:

Low Poly + Voxel Sculpting = LiveClay :) Artists dosen't care tech part at all, but he want's a tool that combines best parts from those 4 methods.

I have been playing with the idea that would it possible to change voxel sculpting from global resolution into local resolution. You could set resolution into you brush before you do you stroke.
That could be something interesting..

Edited by haikalle
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4 hours ago, Gorbatovsky said:

There are 4 main methods of 3D modeling:

  • Low Poly
  • Free Surface
  • Parametric solid
  • Voxel Sculpting

Each method has its advantages and disadvantages.

This new development, to which audience target is focused ?

Very high poly modelling ? Super realistic character models ? MidLow poly for games ? Industrial Print ?

Surface modeling apps filled the market, but they are all based on old paradigmsnothing can be modified once done. Surface modeling is tedious -2020 and still moving vertices and edges-

 

And that's the reason why boolean operands is the new king of the block. (Probooleans as example)

And why more and more surface modeling artist are switching to Fusion360.

I believe that we must expand the horizon. What happens if we merge in the same app Parametric solid with Voxel sculpting modelling ?

Viewing your work and taking into account your skills and developments, I see that road as the only viable route.

 

Sweeping is amazing. If you could add

- Constructive solid geometry (Boolean constructions or combinations of primitives)

- Parametric Solid (parametric shapes associated with attributes)

 

3DCoat would offer a new way that in my opinion, would be dazzling and attractive for both old and new users.

 

Thx for your time and sorry wall of text.

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3 hours ago, Carlosan said:

Sweeping is amazing.

Carlos, thank.
We want to offer a variety of tools for 3DCoat users.
Especially when you consider that I created them almost 20 years ago on the Silicon Graphics platform.

 

3 hours ago, Carlosan said:

If you could add

- Constructive solid geometry (Boolean constructions or combinations of primitives)

- Parametric Solid (parametric shapes associated with attributes)

We are discussing this with Andrew.

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10 hours ago, Gorbatovsky said:

We are discussing this with Andrew. 

Oh my god! I can not wait to see it :o
Congratulations and thank  for your work

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Now curve tools in sculpt room becom very rich and gogeous for me! :yahoo:

Then I think ,  may better offer window for Curves menu, as same as Tool options?

Now I often need to use top menus>curves. then I do not know how many user can found , the "Curve trees" menu, frist time to edit new curves (which add Curve tree tab to change visiblity neme, selection, easy) 

I happend to find it in Top menu>curve menu. though I can move the "Curve menu" but I think The curve menu could  be separated as new tab (or window) and as default,

it  will open ,when we use curve as brush stroke mode.

The difficulit things is,,  there are too many separated menus which need to use for curves.   (r-click menu, top menu>curve ,curves editor, Objects>each curve tools)

curvetools.thumb.JPG.d360f009cb79744f82c73005b18907b1.JPG

so I hope UI becom more clean,  then we can easy find menu which work with curve and mesh (applied curve modifier), and edit them as we need.

(I think, the UI seems beta process too,, but need improvement I think)

 

 

Edited by tokikake
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2 hours ago, tokikake said:

Now curve tools in sculpt room becom very rich and gogeous for me! :yahoo:

Then I think ,  may better offer window for Curves menu, as same as Tool options?

Now I often need to use top menus>curves. then I do not know how many user can found , the "Curve trees" menu, frist time to edit new curves (which add Curve tree tab to change visiblity neme, selection, easy) 

I happend to find it in Top menu>curve menu. though I can move the "Curve menu" but I think The curve menu could  be separated as new tab (or window) and as default,

it  will open ,when we use curve as brush stroke mode.

The difficulit things is,,  there are too many separated menus which need to use for curves.   (r-click menu, top menu>curve ,curves editor, Objects>each curve tools)

curvetools.thumb.JPG.d360f009cb79744f82c73005b18907b1.JPG

so I hope UI becom more clean,  then we can easy find menu which work with curve and mesh (applied curve modifier), and edit them as we need.

(I think, the UI seems beta process too,, but need improvement I think)

 

 

I totally agree. :good2:

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I really like new Swept Surface tools. Can't stop experimenting B)

Especially i like to doodle profile and guide curves with the freehand tool.

But i feel like i miss something in this mode (and in curve tools in general):

1) do they work with Symmetry? Looks like they don't. Or there is just no symmetry in all curve tools right now? I'm not sure.

2) This idea is hard to express in details, but i'll try.  Can be implemented in future something like quick full-auto mode for the Freehand curves, like we have with Strokes in Retopo room? So you just draw 1 or 2 (or several) guides (with the Symmetry optionally), then 1 or 2 (or several) profiles, then just hit Enter (or another key) and BOOM! - you got your surface generated with "Two Guide" or "N Gener". And Tool Options panel is open where you can change something.
I'm not sure about other curve tools but for the Freehand tool it can be super useful, especially for quick prototyping and ideation.

I really like the accuracy that can be achieved with other curves tools. But in this freehand mode you expect something more interactive and fast.

3) And in addition to the previous one. Can curves snap to each other more easily? For example, first point of the new Freehand guide sticks to the any existing curve (this can be activated with some option checkbox). The point is to provide some degree of continuity between the various generated surfaces. Yes, I can tweak curve points after the surface is generated, but this kind of interrupts the "flow".

 

And yes, i'm keeping in mind something like "Grease Pencil to mesh" workflow in Blender, but i think in 3D-Coat it can be more straightforward, fast and accurate using freehand curves and new swept surfaces.
 

 

Edited by druh0o

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I could gradually learning curve tool each options, these are really powerful.

then can I request add one option for  "Swept surface 2 and 1 profile" ?   not use profile, but  bridge 2 guide curves (with thickness option)

bridge2guide.thumb.JPG.21150e19b4e99695ab635d4e511201aa.JPG

 I think, it can be added without make new tools, but it work when we do not assign  profile curve for this tool.

What I means,, if  I just make 2 guide curves then not set profile,(not assgin profile), this tool bridge 2 curves as plane mesh.  then we can controll thickness option to add thickness for bridge plane.

(so if user hope to bridge without thickness, it generate plane mesh with sruface mode. then if we need volume,  adjust thickness for plane normal direction.)

I understand there are  many ways to make mesh with these curve tool options, but new options, just  bridge with 2 cruves without profile, but controll thickness can offer more variety

and which I may often hope to use.

Edited by tokikake
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Yes, @tokikake that was the thing what i was thinking about too! Great! :drinks:

Edited by druh0o

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And one more thing. As I can understand, right now Swept modifier is "attached" to the guide curve and then you can choose a profile curve. Is it possible to choose not only the profile, but the guide curve too? So you can easily swap them. Or just to choose another guide.

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druhOo thanks yes I see, maybe most of users may think same thing when use this rich tools :)

I understand, current varieties offer many possibility already.At same time we sometimes need more simple option. Then " just bridge 2 curves and generate  poligon"  seems  simple and still useful. (I suppose  blender user may remember  B-surface add on  etc,, though it is for polgion modeling)

The curve "attached" or  "de-attached"  process, actually a little difficult for me. I hope there will detail tutorial from official for user..  (how mix use each options correctly,

eg, once generate meshes with one curve option, then generate next, or add another primitive, then return which I generate before (with use curve options), and change curve options.

At current, I think tool options sometimes confuse me,  the options are used for which curve etc..  and I do not know, about curve meshes (which generate by these new tools)when it is confirmed. . or as default, it belong to curve, then when delete curve, they shold disappear ?   I see, when I change layer as S(surface) to V (voxel), curve are auto rde-atacched, then mesh free from curve,, but with keep "Surface"  I still not clear, how I de-atttach curve, but remein generate meshes,, etc.. 

At current I think,  we need to decide one guide curve to use these tools , then we can  change other options, (2nd guide, profile etc) .  I expect developer offer way to easy exchange guide curves  as you menitoned,  or we can not exchange "guide curve1"  to " gudie curve2, profile 1, etc,,) because we can not change attached curve. I feel.

(or I  seems not understand still,,  how de-atached and atached, and re-use option setting,,) So these are  really rich tools,, then hope to play with turoiall videos  (and reall ythanks developer and 3d coat teams ^_^ offer new intereting tools)

Edited by tokikake
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@tokikake

What i found while experimenting: one way to detach generated surface is obviously right click on the first curve (which was selected  to apply the modifier) and choose Detach Curve Modifier under the submenu with the name of modifier.

Another way is just to duplicate generated surface and duplicated one will be detached. So you can have attached surface, that you can tweak, and detached surface, that independent of any curves.

Detach.thumb.jpg.4f44cedc6195c5874e3e7c9f11007b77.jpg

 

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Hi I think if I am too greed, but I really hope, curve tool offer "spiral" preset.  (though it is not about new curve tool options) in curve editor preset.

the curve may need option, start ellipse 2 radius, and end ellipse 2 radius.  pitch. length.   

There is already spiral  primitive ,but generate spiral as curve can offer more flexiblity .  because user easy adjust curve spiral along to the target , untill generate mesh.   (though primitve or curve have  pro and con) 

 

 

 

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@Gorbatovsky Is it possible to make the Add / Split tool be able to cut freely in the polygon? And also cut from one edge to another distant edge?

Currently, 3D-Coat only accepts cut between one edge near another. And if you try to cut inside the polygon will fail. (example: make a cut in the shape of a circle inside a polygon and then connect that circle with the vertices of this polygon.)

In Blender (or other programs), if you take the Cut - Knife tool, you can cut freely through the mesh  (creating n-gons if you wish) and if you try to cut from one edge to another edge, the tool will automatically create vertices (cuts) at the edges of the cut path.
You can also project cuts in the shape of another polygon of a separate mesh in that mesh.
Is this improved 3D-Coat Add / Split tool possible?

thank you

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On 4/3/2019 at 7:44 PM, Rygaard said:

Is it possible to make the Add / Split tool be able to cut freely in the polygon?

Yes it is possible. We are working on the knife tool. Yesterday talked with Andrew about it.

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2 hours ago, Gorbatovsky said:

Yes it is possible. We are working on the knife tool. Yesterday talked with Andrew about it.

Hi @Gorbatovsky thank you very much!
If you can also implement the use of other tools in conjunction with Split Tool would be very good and fast.
Sometimes, when you make a cut, you want to make a bevel, collapse, rotate the edges and etc ...
It would be interesting to have the same principle you put in by making quick interactions like those that are present in the Select Tool.

Just a note, when I press the right button and other tools appear in the menu, depending on where the mouse is on the screen and when I click on some other tool in this menu, the execution and interactivity of this tool is strange when the mouse is far from the face , edge or vertices.

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