Linux updates news

[Sorn]

20 minutes ago, kumpa said:

I am also experiencing same issue on Fedora 35-Cinnamon edition with AwesomeWM. I will probably go with another flavor of fedora in the future but right now I don't have time to change that. Versions up to and including 2022.49 work fine.

Regarding Flatpak/Snap; I personally hate it but I can see the appeal of it when things refuse to work as they should.

Repos are my preferred way of installing apps on linux by huge margin.

Not a fan either. And Sergyii already packs what's needed in the install.

[SreckoM]

But than you have what you have now, there is reason why they support only Ubuntu 22.04.  18 of 20 posts on Linux section are complaining why it does not work on that specific distros. And at the end developers stop supporting Linux, to run from that shitfest. Looking at that for last 15 years ... Flatpak and/or Snap should finally resolve more than decade old Linux problem and help it grow more on desktop market, I hope You just can not grow like it is now. Imagine OSX or Windows user switching to Linux, than pay 300usd for app, and need to do some terminal thing to be able to start it, good luck with that

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by SreckoM

[kumpa]

@Srecko

RHEL and its derivatives were always target platform for all the things vfx so it would be wise to support those in the first place. There is a lot of software that is very difficult if not impossible to make it run on Debian (all of autodesk stuff, Renderman and probably a lot of others that come as .rpm)

There is a thing called VFX Reference platform which is specifically designed to avoid the need for flatpaks /snaps.

https://vfxplatform.com/
VFX Linux Distribution Recommendation Report

I never had any problems with 3dcoat and I have been using CentOS and later Fedora for well over 10 years now. This latest file requester bug is just an unfortunate oversight and will be dealt with shortly I would Imagine. However, developing software while your country is being invaded by orks isn't in anyone's job description.

Doing terminal thing is fine with me, it is small price to pay to avoid windows and its shenanigans and it is usually just a matter of exporting some variables; nothing 1 min of googling wouldn't sort out.



 

[SERGYI]

In today's build 2023.08 for Linux there is a debug output from the file dialog into the Terminal: https://pilgway.com/~sergyi/links-Linux.html
In case of a file dialog crash please send the output to sergkryzh AT gmail dot com.

[SreckoM]

@kumpa  That is 1 min for you. For inexperienced user it can be hours. And that is where "Linux is only free if you don't value your time" comes from.

Quote

There is a thing called VFX Reference platform which is specifically designed to avoid the need for flatpaks /snaps.

No, it is actually different, VFX platform is designed cause there were no packaging formats like flatpak/snaps (so you have to lock updates), and it gives option  to lock to specific platform through show life cycle. Studios are using many VFX platforms in parallel. It was made to resolve that issue for studios, nothing else. And that is hell that no ISV can support anymore. Again, it is solution for studios and their workstations but not for ordinary user/artist, who is dominant in this market. They will open Centos, figure out that it does not support their graphic tablet, soundcard, WiFi or Bluetooth, delete and install Windows. As I said, looking at that for 15 years. More advanced Linux users like you or I, are not relevant metric. Linux desktop market needs to grow on them.

Quote

RHEL and its derivatives were always target platform for all the things vfx so it would be wise to support those in the first place. There is a lot of software that is very difficult if not impossible to make it run on Debian (all of autodesk stuff, Renderman and probably a lot of others that come as .rpm)

And this is exactly my point, when flatpak/snap are are widely adopted we will not have this conversation, as app will work same on every linux distro. Plus it will make developers life much easier.

Interesting read Link

Edited March 25, 2023 by SreckoM

[kumpa]

I absolutely hate to have to do this over and over again but it seems that a lot of us Linux users are once again kept at the end of bug fixing queue. File requester bug still persists from October and hasn't been addressed. Come on, I understand what's going on in your country but if you can release new versions for windows you could surely fix bugs for linux too.

[Carlosan]

Hi, sorry the delay 

On 6/13/2023 at 3:44 PM, Andrew Shpagin said:

Introducing Python requires big portion of hardwork from the Mac/Linux programmer... But it is on the way.

 

[Sorn]

Operations with file manager do crash 3DCoat here too. I'd like to use it again. Can't wait for this and the rest of the general bug fixes and new functionalities to arrive!

Good thing it's in progress. Thanks for letting us know, @Carlosan.

Edit:

Possible culprit of the crash: permissions?
If I try to open an image in the Smart Material Editor the file browser opens but when I click anything to load an image it crashes 3DCoat.
I tried running 3DCoat with super user (sudo /opt/3DCoat/3DCoat.sh) and it doesn't crash.

Edit 2:
I've sent a bug report to @SERGYI in case it helps.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Sorn

[kumpa]

On 6/19/2023 at 6:20 PM, Carlosan said:

Hi, sorry the delay 

 

How long exactly is this way ? Last time it was 4 years before you managed to release Linux version and this is starting to look very similar. I am not a programmer but it seems like it wouldn't require a complete core rewrite to fix it, probably a line of code would sort it out. And I also can't see how python could affect this in any way.

[Sorn]

Well, now the Mac version is done, so hopefully it won't take much longer. It wasn't a trivial thing to do, as I understood it.

But yeah, it's been a while without bug fixing or new beta features for us.

Edit: Also, about the file manager crash I reported (it crashes 3DCoat but NOT when 3DCoat is launched using sudo) he kindly answered me back. Apparently it doesn't happen in Ubuntu and he explained why he doesn't know how to fix it. I did some basic research of my own and couldn't find a solution either. That being said, it's the only software that does that, on the same system and machine. And I use quite a lot of DCC and other software. So not sure how to proceed, really. Still it was very kind of @SERGYI to answer my e-mail back with detailed account of the issue and what he tried.
The good thing is they are working hard and listening (and answering). The bad is that there's no reason to expect an immediate solution to a crucial crash that severely hampers our ability to use this software for many of us.

Edited August 9, 2023 by Sorn

[Sorn]

Well, my license has expired, and it's been many months without updates for Linux. Some crucial ones are not seemingly going to be fixed anytime soon, so I can't really use 3DCoat even if it were updated because it crashes using a file manager (the only software I've seen doing that).

This situation doesn't work for me, really, and I'm already switching to other alternatives for my work. I really like some of 3DCoat features but the intermittent lack of updates for Linux for weeks or months without bug fixes during the year is a problem for me as a professional. It gives me pause, and it's a pity.

It doesn't matter how much I pay for a license if I don't get bugfixes (not to mention workflow updates or new tools). Again, it's really a pity.

Edited August 9, 2023 by Sorn

[Carlosan]

Reported to Sergii Kryzhanovskyi at
support.linux@pilgway.com

[Sorn]

Thanks @Carlosan, the issue is known for a while, though.

I already e-mailed him and got an actual direct answer from him.
In all my interactions he's been always supportive and keen to explain what was needed. I'm not complaining, really. And we've moved far from the early days regarding building and publishing Linux versions of 3DCoat, yes. For the better, of course!

Their situation must be really tough, and their country may need them too. So they have to split their time between family and friends, country and this product. I'm in awe that they manage to produce anything in this conditions, and admire them for what they are accomplishing. Not complaining. Months ago I even offered to send them hardware to code and help with logistics if needed. It was not deemed necessary at that point in time. So not complaining and I try my best to be constructive.

The thing is, though, that my professional needs are not met here. All in all, I do understand that Linux must be at the bottom of their list (smaller user base, alone, would make that choice unavoidable, besides hiring more coders). And as soon as they can we do get builds. And that's fantastic. When something that requires lots of changes or more structural code, they have to adapt it to Mac, so it understandably takes time. Later, the same for Linux since it's the same guy doing both, and other tasks too. So from time to time, we get behind. But meanwhile that happens there are no more bug fixes for weeks, for months. And yes, once the code is there, he updates builds regularly, so when they can, they really do produce the builds within days, even hours. So I know they care, I know they listen, react, adapt. But I also know that during the year, there are gaps with weeks and months with no new tools (I can live with that) but, crucially, no bug fixes. And that is the problem. I can't rely on a software I like done by people I admire because if I get stuck because of a bug or report one, I don't know if I'll get a fix for it in a reasonable time.

So I do understand they have limited resources, they do care and they are doing even innovative tools with their country under attack. But I need this tool for work. And I need it for Linux. I'm just a tad disappointed because I really like 3DCoat and where is heading.

So don't take me wrong, but I can't tell my clients to understand certain things. Or spending many work hours looking for workarounds. Or worrying if I'll find a bug on the next project and then get stopped again and moving to another software to finish the job. I hope things will turn around, and I wish them all the best. But I have not had bug fixes since April. And since my license is expired now I won't get them even if fixed.

I got a little carried away, here? Well, sorry about that.  I wish I could help the situation but I don't see how. And it's a pity.

Thanks for listening, and now I leave you with your regular programs. Have a good one!

 

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by Sorn

[SERGYI]

On 8/9/2023 at 8:22 PM, Sorn said:

it's been many months without updates for Linux... it crashes using a file manager

1. Linux is a family of operating systems. The "3DCoat" executable has been built under "Ubuntu 20.04". This is noted in the "Downloads" section on the site and inside download links. Compatibility with other distros is not guaranteed.
2. In "3DCoat 2023.27" for Linux Ubuntu there are two executables. One has been built under Ubuntu 20.04 (Python 3.8). The other one is under Ubuntu 22.04 (Python 3.10). Is this a good idea? Please provide your feedback on running these executables directly to me: sergkryzh AT gmail DOT com.
https://pilgway.com/~sergyi/links-Linux.html
3. To test the Python inside "3DCoat 2023.27" for Linux Ubuntu do:
3DCoat > Scripts > Run Script > inside folder "3DCoat-2023.27/UserPrefs/PythonAPI/Templates" select any py-file (not pyi).

[Sorn]

HI, good to know there's a new build for Linux.

I've tested it again in both trial versions (3dcoat-Ubuntu20.04 and 3dcoat-Ubuntu22.04) and, again, if I launch 3DCoat with sudo it doesn't crash. If not lauched with sudo, when editing a material in Smart material editor and clicking to add or change an image texture, navigating the file manager crashes 3DCoat.

I don't think it's related to my system, as many other applications (all of them, actually) don't have this problem. Even if this doesn't happen in Ubuntu (I don't know if it crashes in Ubuntu or not). Still a pity something like this prevent non-Ubuntu systems to work. Again, I haven't seen this anywhere else: all applications I use, including 3D/2D DDC software, both commercial and free applications, work on my machine, even if they don't officially support my Linux distribution. On my second workstation, the same is true.

By the way, in case it could help: if opening the file manager to load a saved project (File>Open in 3DCoat) it works just fine and it doesn't crash.

My license has expired so I can only test it with the trial (my last build working with my just expired license is April's 2023.17), but that shouldn't be an issue either, I assume this part of the program should work the same regardless of licensing status.

I don't know what the problem may be here, and my limited programming skills and the time dedicated to find a possible root cause for this have not allowed me to find a viable solution, besides having to run 3DCoat as root, or super-user, which is far from ideal (albeit it then works). But then I don't know if this opens any more issues when trying to use the link to Blender, with file permissions, configuration files and folders... I just didn't test that. Others with newer current licenses may be able to check that, surely.

I did my best to help here, but I'm at a loss. I won't change my system just for 3DCoat for now, but others may find the solution to the issue, if developers' constrains prevent them to allocate resources to fix this particular problem. I wish you all the best!

Anyway, thank you for your efforts and openness to feedback, @SERGYI

Edited August 23, 2023 by Sorn

[SERGYI]

On 8/21/2023 at 6:26 PM, Sorn said:

when editing a material in Smart material editor and clicking to add or change an image texture, navigating the file manager crashes 3DCoat.

This is the first time you mentioned that the problem is not with all file dialogs but a particular one. Specify the steps to reproduce:  every click, navigation, and selection. The principal here is the operation when the crash occurs: on opening a particular file dialog; on navigation inside an already opened file dialog and inside what folder (all folders or a particular one); after opening a selected file of concrete type.

[Sorn]

@SERGYI it may have escaped you, but it's not the first time I specifically explained the procedure to reproduce the crash in this very thread. Also I'll quote part of an e-mail I sent to you on the 27th of June, one that you kindly replied to then, so you must have read it. Let me know if you need further information. As stated, though, this won't help me anymore, but it might be of use to many others. Thanks for considering it.

Quote from the e-mail:
"(...)
Bug reproducible steps:

- Open Smart Material Editor

- Try to load an image

- Click on a folder in the file browser (nautilus/Gnome Files).

- Instant crash: 3DCoat disappears."

Quote form a forum post in this thread:

On 6/20/2023 at 5:20 PM, Sorn said:

Operations with file manager do crash 3DCoat here too. I'd like to use it again. Can't wait for this and the rest of the general bug fixes and new functionalities to arrive!

Good thing it's in progress. Thanks for letting us know, @Carlosan.

Edit:

Possible culprit of the crash: permissions?
If I try to open an image in the Smart Material Editor the file browser opens but when I click anything to load an image it crashes 3DCoat.
I tried running 3DCoat with super user (sudo /opt/3DCoat/3DCoat.sh) and it doesn't crash.

Edit 2:
I've sent a bug report to @SERGYI in case it helps.

 

Hopefully this will help you to sort it out.
Have a good one and see if you can find and smash that bug!

Edited August 24, 2023 by Sorn

[SERGYI]

20 hours ago, Sorn said:

- Open Smart Material Editor

- Try to load an image

- Click on a folder in the file browser (nautilus/Gnome Files).

- Instant crash: 3DCoat disappears.

Thanks for the details. I have testes your steps in "3DCoat 2023.27" for Linux under Ubuntu 20.04 and Ubuntu 22.04. No crash. Frankly, I want to fix this. But I don't understand the source of the problem.

[Sorn]

On 8/25/2023 at 9:17 AM, SERGYI said:

Thanks for the details. I have testes your steps in "3DCoat 2023.27" for Linux under Ubuntu 20.04 and Ubuntu 22.04. No crash. Frankly, I want to fix this. But I don't understand the source of the problem.

I had a suspicion that it could have to do with XDG_DATA_DIRS but couldn't spend time trying different things to see if it worked. Because possibly different environment variables are set up in different systems, that would explain the apparent randomness of the crash and also its consistency if it happens. And possibly why it doesn't if started as super user instead of plain user.
I don't know when will I be able to find the time to test this, though. I just put it here in case anyone else want to give it a go, and see if we can find a way to check and correct the issue once and for all.
Good luck!

Edit: possibly glib version differences and or relations to XDG data variables could be at play, here. I may be wrong, though. My knowledge is very limited here.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Sorn

[matiya]

CAN YOU PLEASE ****** FIX LINUX VERSION CRASHING WHEN FILE DIALOG IS OPENED ? I NEED TO USE IT AND I PAID ****** MONEY FOR IT. THIS IS GOING ON FOR ****** YEARS SO PLEASE FIX IT FOR FUCKS SAKE

[matiya]

I AM DOWNLOADING EACH NEW VERSION LIKE A ****** IDIOT AND NOTHING CHANGES. IF YOU DONT INTEND TO SUPPORT A PLATFORM REMOVE IT ALTOGETHER.

[Carlosan]

Hi 

In build for Linux there is a debug output from the file dialog into the Terminal: https://pilgway.com/~sergyi/links-Linux.html
In case of a file dialog crash please send the output to sergkryzh AT gmail dot com.

Also remember that Linux is a family of operating systems.

The "3DCoat" executable has been built under "Ubuntu 20.04". This is noted in the "Downloads" section on the site and inside download links. Compatibility with other distros is not guaranteed.

In "3DCoat 2023.##" for Linux Ubuntu there are two executables.
One has been built under Ubuntu 20.04 (Python 3.8).
The other one is under Ubuntu 22.04 (Python 3.10).

Is this a good idea?
Please provide your feedback on running these executables directly to: sergkryzh AT gmail DOT com.

Thanks

[matiya]

It is not terrible idea but I have done it a year ago but nothing happened since. 

On 11/1/2023 at 9:18 PM, Carlosan said:

Hi 

In build for Linux there is a debug output from the file dialog into the Terminal: https://pilgway.com/~sergyi/links-Linux.html
In case of a file dialog crash please send the output to sergkryzh AT gmail dot com.

I did it a year ago when the problem first occured. Dickie bird happened.

Also remember that Linux is a family of operating systems.

The "3DCoat" executable has been built under "Ubuntu 20.04". This is noted in the "Downloads" section on the site and inside download links. Compatibility with other distros is not guaranteed.

You HAD IT WORKING and it is clearly minor bug, entire app is working up to the point file dialog is opened.

In "3DCoat 2023.##" for Linux Ubuntu there are two executables.
One has been built under Ubuntu 20.04 (Python 3.8).
The other one is under Ubuntu 22.04 (Python 3.10).

It is an endless debate it seems but if apps like Blender and Houdini can manage it I am sure you can do too, once again it is very minor issue fix as opposed to a complete application rewrite as some here would have us believe. 

Is this a good idea?
Please provide your feedback on running these executables directly to: sergkryzh AT gmail DOT com.


I also did it a year ago when the problem first occured. Like before dickie bird happened.  

Thanks
 

 

[Sorn]

I upgraded my license to support the development of 3DCoat, but unfortunately I have no use for it in its current state.

I don't use Ubuntu and it is impossible to work with 3DCoat. Anything that touches file manager crashes 3DCoat. It's the only program that displays this behaviour of the many professional tools I use (almost none of them officially support my distribution either, but that basic interaction doesn't seem to be a problem for absolutely anyone but 3DCoat).

Is there anything we could do to fix this issue once and for all? I'd gladly test whatever is needed if developers care to provide a set of steps to try and figure out what's happening. Maybe some other users could join following steps and reporting so we can fix this ridiculous situation.

It's a pity this is a problem. I know of others that already have stopped using 3DCoat for the same reason and it's a waste of a really good tool. 3DCoat can do many things really well, and provides solutions for common tasks on the 3D content creation process with interesting workflows. Let's fix the issue! Come on, let's do it.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Sorn

[Carlosan]

Sadly the "3DCoat" executable has been built under "Ubuntu 20.04".

Try asking directly to Linux support at sergkryzh@gmail.com

May be they have a workaround for your OS installation.

[Sorn]

There's absolutely NO other program with this issue that I know of.
On Gnome standard, either X11 or Wayland, ALL work and can interact with the file browser. It has something to do with 3DCoat's implementation. The fact that works in Ubuntu (I assume it does) doesn't mean it can't work in anything else. It's quite baffling.

Anyway, I've been in contact with Sergyii before, about this issue. If they don't want to fix it, we can't help. If they want to, they could tell us what to try, steps to follow to help nail down where the problem is. Because, there is actually a problem there. The last time I was in contact with him he was open to fixing it but said something along the lines of he didn't know how or what to fix to make it work. Hence, if he really doesn't want to schedule proper time to fix it himself, I offer to help out. The users have an invested interest too in fixing this. So we could follow guidelines, track, gather data for him. But if the only answer is only Ubuntu (and an outdated one at that) then we're at a loss, here.

At this point I feel it's pointless if we are told this ridiculous crash has anything to do with not being Ubuntu. Again, absolutely everyone else does it perfectly fine.

A shame, really.

[ymesh]

Probably, it is possible to use other FileDialog for non-Ubuntu cases?
Or somehow trace/ignore any system exceptions that cause to crash on other distros?

[Sorn]

Or maybe there's a safe call to the file browser that's not problematic if on different version of Gnome. I don't know.
I'm open to test whatever needs to be tested, gather information as requested too. Other users willing to help and I will need some lead, here; that's all.

[matiya]

I completely agree with Sorn, this negligence on developer side is at this point quite frankly offending and there are absolutely no excuses for not providing us with working version. I can not use Ubuntu either and and this forced to use an ancient version of 3dcoat because some lazy developer can't be bothered to fix an issue.

Edited December 20, 2023 by matiya

[matiya]

WOW...out of sheer desperation I tried latest version (2023.40) and it WORKS !!!! Not sure if that was due to me trying different file managers in an attempt to make it work

I am attaching xprop output of file chooser and screenshot of window itself if anyone can recognize it. My default file manager is set to Thunar but that has been so for quite a while. Finally.....