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Andrew Shpagin

3DCoat 4.9 BETA testing thread

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1 hour ago, Speike-Styles said:

So when is there going to be a Proper real Build Release without any bugs?

It seems like You  " The Devs " keep on introducing cool new features with every release.

Yet somehow 3DCoat has never really been Stable. There is always one bug that pops up after every release that wasn't there or like that 3 years ago.

Why create so many new tools before making it Stable first. Each Stable release has until now not been stable. Used to be the other way around.

There is always either one thing that works really well on every stable release, but then other places it is just messed up and makes everything Crash.

Please please please make one real Stable Version without new features. Just squash those dam bugs so tired of them. 3D Coat would be so Powerful if not for every uncanny release. Again I would love to use it more, but ZB just really has the overhand atm, but I totally miss working inside of 3DCoat.. Ever since Matcaps have been removed 3DCoat just introduces way to many bugs to enjoy it for good. And PBR workflow is great, but lats the simplicity of a simple matcap... it should not be " yay another release I wounder what is broken this time"  it should instead be " Yay a another release time to switch easily and wow my workflow just improved....

 

Thank you..

The entire period between releases are generally BETA. Prior to a release, Andrew spends weeks doing nothing else but bugfixing. That is when you can expect the most stable versions.

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9 minutes ago, AbnRanger said:

The entire period between releases are generally BETA. Prior to a release, Andrew spends weeks doing nothing else but bugfixing. That is when you can expect the most stable versions.

Sorry, but I don't even remember stable release anymore... it's always something messed up.

I've been working with 3DC almost exclusively for over 2 years and... at the beginning it was fun, but when the real job began, it was very often a frustrating process.

 

 

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It's generally not a good idea to use a beta of any program for important work.

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On 1/14/2020 at 11:36 PM, Rygaard said:

I meant that the steps you passed me worked and I was able to recover my geometries!
 

By the way, I personally believe that this occurs when you close 3d-Coat too soon after saving.

(and yes I know that 3d-C supposedly continues saving after you close it).

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59 minutes ago, lesaint said:

By the way, I personally believe that this occurs when you close 3d-Coat too soon after saving.

(and yes I know that 3d-C supposedly continues saving after you close it).

To be honest with you, I don't remember if I closed the program anytime soon after I saved the project.
Maybe yes....

But I didn't realize that after you hit CTRL + S (or save in the menu) 3D-Coat would continue the saving process.
I recognize that this is new to me after many years using 3D-Coat.

I confess that this is not so pleasant news, because I thought I would be "saved" from any program error as soon as I hit the Save button.
From now on, I'll wait longer.... before closing the program.

Do you think I could close the program after how long I hit the save button?

Could developers put a warning window for users not to close the program while the program is in the save period (even after the program has saved)? Or a countdown?
Or maybe this is some other bug?

Edited by Rygaard

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7 hours ago, Mihu83 said:

Sorry, but I don't even remember stable release anymore... it's always something messed up.

I've been working with 3DC almost exclusively for over 2 years and... at the beginning it was fun, but when the real job began, it was very often a frustrating process.

 

 

I understand the frustration, but the last few weeks prior to a release, Andrew comes here and says to users like yourself, who may still be encountering issues, to report them. He does this to help insure the release is as stable as he can make it. If you don't report anything, he may not know there is a problem. Send him an email, with screengrabs of the scene or screen recordings of the problem, and explain the circumstances that cause it, as well as what build and OS you are using it on.

I've had problems in the past that I blamed on 3DCoat and it turned out to be a graphic card driver one time, another time it was a Wacom driver, and another time it was my Anti-Virus app suddenly and without warning, deciding to flag 3DCoat on it's own. So, not every problem is the fault of the application. A high percentage of it might be, but that's where we can help insure our personal workflow isn't affected....by simply reporting all the problems we encounter.

I report a bunch, myself, and Andrew does usually fix them by the next build or two.

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1 hour ago, AbnRanger said:

He does this to help insure the release is as stable as he can make it. If you don't report anything, he may not know there is a problem. Send him an email, with screengrabs of the scene or screen recordings of the problem, and explain the circumstances that cause it, as well as what build and OS you are using it on.

In less than a year I sent a description of more than 40 bugs. Whether in text form or recording a video where everything is shown in detail.

Of the bugs in almost two years, fixed about five. Some continue to manifest themselves.

Regarding drawing on the reference and other trifles.

The only thing that really pleased me was the more or less working Boolean operations (I was delighted when I saw that I could cut the mesh in any way, in any order, then duplicate it, and subtract one from the other - and after a few minutes I I get a result that doesn’t crash 3D coats. This is really a breakthrough and it makes me very happy).

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For all the time. I repeat. For almost two years that I have been using this program, the ONLY stable version for me is 4.9.05. The only one. Version .17 is declared as stable. However, in the same thread I regularly see some new bugs, some critical moments that interfere with the work.

I wrote that the new release is being repaired by something that did not work well in the previous version. And they break what worked well the same in the previous one.

I wrote about this to the developers and the forum. No reaction.

It's just that developers use users as free beta testers.

Deal with it.

Nothing will change.

 Just let us enjoy at least some stability.

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7 hours ago, Rygaard said:



Could developers put a warning window for users not to close the program while the program is in the save period (even after the program has saved)? Or a countdown?
Or maybe this is some other bug?

I'm not entirely sure hidden voxels vanish when you exit 3dc too early after saving, I don't have proof.
What I can say is that it has been my habit now for a long time to always wait a few seconds after saving before I exit 3dc  (more seconds if the file is big, just two or three seconds if the fils is small)

Ever since I do that, I don't think it happened again.
Honestly I thought maybe the problem had gone away when I heard that 3dc would continue saving even after you close.

So when it happened to you it was the first occurence I heard of in a long time.

I think yes a progress bar for saving would be a really cool idea, in any case.

****
There is another possible bug related to saving, but again I am not entirely sure :
Sometimes saved files can't be opened. I believe this happens when I have deleted a bunch of paint layers and vox layers from a complex file, and then continued working on the remaining objects.

****

So I try not to take saving for granted. I tend so save incrementally, so as to not lose everything.

However, you don't really know until you have tried reopening the files, and I remember at least once when quite a few of my incremental saves were corrupt, and so were the autosaves.
 

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4 minutes ago, lesaint said:

Could developers put a warning window for users not to close the program while the program is in the save period (even after the program has saved)?

So .. after all, each time autosave appears, a red text appears in the center of the screen that autosave will be soon.

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I actually requested that warning because the auto-save freezes the program for a couple seconds. The red text was added and I was happy to have it but still I wish it was something more obvious since I still don't notice this text most of the time.

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13 hours ago, AbnRanger said:

The entire period between releases are generally BETA. Prior to a release, Andrew spends weeks doing nothing else but bugfixing. That is when you can expect the most stable versions.

I do not use  BETA's at all. I am talking about " STABLE RELEASES " Just as my post requested. I know you are a long time user, but do you really think People would blame every update from Windows or other Drivers because 3DCoat is unstable?

I am sure aware of minor Problems that can occur when Microsoft releases a change in some line that messes with interactions etc.. Yet that is not my point. I am talking only about " STABLES RELEASES " that are made for the  RL People who bought 3DCOAT that do not want to be apart of a BETA. Those are not STABLE releases not one that has been released since the past 3 Years was really Stable. This is not my first Message with this request to build a Proper Release you should know that because you already almost typed the same thing last time. Don't go AUTOPILOT on me/us..

 

All I want is a Stable Release that doesn't have flaw Code. Betas Should not be given to the Public to test they should be closed Betas where only a hand full of people should be testing them and not just sending it one to be a Stable Download right after.

Good for you that you have so much knowledge about updating you still lack the understanding that People who don't want to use a unstable Program as a STABLE release.

Also why even post Beta tools on the YouTube channel. That is false Promotion because they do not work and most people who look that those videos believe that that's how it works. After that they fall into the " Great Deal Trap "  Its called False Advertisement doing so.

3DCoat added Renderman for no reason for maybe 5% would even really use that Program. There are Far better Renderes out there.  Cut the biased attitude. being blind that 3DCoat has a lot of bugs that have not been fixed yet so many new tools have been release is just pure arrogant to the hole situation. Before adding new tools Fix the bugs.

3DCoat should be a top Program, yet still lacks things that you cant just ignore.  " this whole : we have a mask tool too " is complete BS " So many things are just missing why add more if you can't even fix the bugs that are at hand. It would be like " Skipping a RED Light " and deep inside you would be like " I should pay the fine, but f*ck it I'll pass time to skip the next. If you ignore all the Bugs that are inside of 3DCoat it just means that " The DEVS " have gotten lazy and started skipping way to many... These Pile up. btw Nobody asked for a new UI and yet it was still made. ( Looks Honorable, and we can't change it to a Legacy option ) This is just pure Autopilot.

This is why 3DCoat will always be last in the choice of usage. Substance, Zbrush, Heck even Blender is getting really really good.

Do you understand?

 

Perfect!:dash2:

 

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58 minutes ago, Speike-Styles said:

Blender

But it also was change ui, no?

But you are right, too much bugs, hard to learn features if they works not right, and hard to understand management with bugs, no roadmap etc

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5 hours ago, lesaint said:

So I try not to take saving for granted. I tend so save incrementally, so as to not lose everything.

However, you don't really know until you have tried reopening the files, and I remember at least once when quite a few of my incremental saves were corrupt, and so were the autosaves.

Of course, the user always has to save the project in different versions...

It is rare that I have closed the program after I clicked the Save button.

I am completely in favor of Developers putting a Warning Window not allowing users to close the program until the Save process has already been successfully done Or something like that ...
That way you could avoid problems when the user saves, reopens the project, and finds something went wrong, losing work.


Sometimes users think that just pressing Save... will save you from anything bad that might happen. I thought so ... but now, I will be much more aware when saving anything in 3D-Coat, especially in professional and personal projects.

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26 minutes ago, Rygaard said:

It is rare that I have closed the program after I clicked the Save button.
 

I just remembered something that is in contradiction to this problem every occuring anymore.
You said that you had saved your file with ghosted volumes.
However, since quite a few releases now, whenever I save or there is autosave, all my ghosted volumes become visible !
(maybe this happens only when I am in the sculpt room though)

so, either you don't have this "bug" (is it a bug?)
or you saved while you were in the paint room maybe ?

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1 hour ago, lesaint said:

I just remembered something that is in contradiction to this problem every occuring anymore.
You said that you had saved your file with ghosted volumes.
However, since quite a few releases now, whenever I save or there is autosave, all my ghosted volumes become visible !
(maybe this happens only when I am in the sculpt room though)

so, either you don't have this "bug" (is it a bug?)
or you saved while you were in the paint room maybe ?

I had saved it by making the geometries invisible through the Visibility button (an eye icon like photoshop).
I didn't use the Ghost Mode button (ball icon).

Another important thing I would like to warn everyone about:
Take great care when saving your projects by leaving their geometries in Proxy Mode (to make the file lighter).

If you save your projects, with VoxTree Layers in the PROXY MODE state, you will be at great risk of having a serious problem with the geometry in Proxy.
When I saved a project that had several Layers in VoxTree converted to Proxy Mode, I closed the program, and after I opened the project again in 3D-Coat, I had lost all the layers that were in Proxy Mode.

Currently, I prefer to save to 3D-Coat as follows:
1) All Voxtree Layers are visible (Surface Mode or Voxels Mode).
2) No Layer in Proxy Mode.

I know it will generate a heavy file, but I know that I will have less chance of having serious problems with the file being corrupted or the geometry of the layer erased or with serious problems.

-----------

I haven't tested the Ghost button yet ... but I will test! If I present what you said I will report.

All my projects are saved while I'm in Sculpt Room. But I will pay more attention to that.

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6 hours ago, sprayer said:

But it also was change ui, no?

But you are right, too much bugs, hard to learn features if they works not right, and hard to understand management with bugs, no roadmap etc

I do not use Blender as much as I would like to, but they have changed a lot and it has become a very important Software that can handle almost anything the Industry uses. One big Bonus about Blender it is Open Source  and FREE.. Also Epic Games gave them a huge Chunk of Money that opens a hole lot of new Opportunity's. Not to mention All the Plugins that help Big time for a faster Workflow. :)

 

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16 minutes ago, Speike-Styles said:

I do not use Blender as much as I would like to, but they have changed a lot and it has become a very important Software that can handle almost anything the Industry uses. One big Bonus about Blender it is Open Source  and FREE.. Also Epic Games gave them a huge Chunk of Money that opens a hole lot of new Opportunity's. Not to mention All the Plugins that help Big time for a faster Workflow. :)

 

I mean they change too much recently what pro software never will do this. For example 3ds max have options to keep old design for dialogs of edit poly tools. And as blender have bonus of free, it is also big minus, because of that blender will never have vray or corona (devs told this about some problems and connections). Though it is nice to see how China gives money to Epics, and Epics gives money for Blender and megascans with twinmotion. =) I hope they will give money to 3d coat too :rofl:

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Vox hide tool doesnt have the border options anymore. 

.05: Border Options 

.17 and .19: Nope. Nada. 

was just feeling inspired to work with 3dCoat this morning. Instead had to uninstall, reinstall other versions, delete folders etc to make sure :(

 

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Note:

Use General Subforum to talk about others app, but please avoid flamewars or app vs app discussion.

Be constructive. ;)

Thx.

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I agree about4.9.05 being the most stable version around (for me) I also want to level up in 3dCoat and maximize the apps potential, I'm not giving up anytime soon, but would also like to experience the stability others crave in newest releases. It will happen I'm sure.

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