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Andrew Shpagin

3DCoat 4.9 BETA testing thread

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I wonder, Is the behaviour of the Symmetrical copy tool for translation symmetry the desired behaviour ?

What it does currently is duplicate all the voxels on the layer on each axis that is set to more than zero clones.
which means that each time you press the symmetrical copy button, your layer grows in those directions.

There is probably a use for this behaviour. however, I wonder, are any of you using it, and if yes, what for ?

In other symmetry types, when you use symmetrical copy, you intentionally choose one section of the layer which you want to duplicate and replace the other side of the symmetry with.
you thus discard part of the layer.
I believe this is what is desired. it is how you expect symmetrical copy to work, I believe. Am I mistaken ?

If this is true, I think it would be expected that when you use it on translation symmetry, only the portion at the center would be duplicated, and everything else would be discarded :
In this scenario, you could use symmetrical copy an infinite number of times, and the layer would not grow.

 

---
Here is an example to try to explain why I am asking these questions :

I was experimenting with making a tileable terrain of sorts, and when I exported I discovered that it did not quite tile.
I thought of using symmetrical copy to ensure that it would indeed tile correctly, but the way the tool currently behaves does not achieve that.

Edited by Silas Merlin

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On 9/19/2020 at 3:48 PM, Andrew Shpagin said:

Really, agree that UV-set in Coat is actually material in other soft.

So I see no actual proposal. Retopo groups are objects. And you may fill objects separately in the fill tool if need.

Reading UDIM - do multiple uv-sets and export them as UDIM.

 

On 9/19/2020 at 7:19 PM, tokikake said:

Of course 3d coat offer many tools to hide poligons easy, or I can use freeze etc.  but I already set material group for the purpose in another aplication.

Then  basically I hope to keep it when import to 3d coat.  Actually if 3d coat can import material group (shader domain group, or material ID etc,, each app may call different name) with keep UDIM tile (Or UV sets) separately,  it enhance workflow mach.  So I request it.  

Actually when I import to 3d coat, I needed to change material gorup as UV tile. Though it work. but it means I lost flexibility which I have.

Proposal: IDS & MASKS Map Types

Material ID: The Material ID output bakes a unique color for each material assigned to your high poly objects. The color is automatically applied, and the colors are picked so that they are as different as possible from the other colors. If you need specific material ID colors, you can apply the colors to the albedo of your high poly object’s materials, and bake an Albedo map.

Group ID: The Group ID output bakes a unique color for each material group.

Object ID: The Object ID output bakes a unique color for each material object.

UV ID: The UV ID output bakes a unique color for each UV island.

Alpha: The Alpha output bakes a map of the holes in the high poly mesh.

reference...

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22 minutes ago, Carlosan said:

 

Proposal: IDS & MASKS Map Types

Material ID: The Material ID output bakes a unique color for each material assigned to your high poly objects. The color is automatically applied, and the colors are picked so that they are as different as possible from the other colors. If you need specific material ID colors, you can apply the colors to the albedo of your high poly object’s materials, and bake an Albedo map.

Group ID: The Group ID output bakes a unique color for each material group.

Object ID: The Object ID output bakes a unique color for each material object.

UV ID: The UV ID output bakes a unique color for each UV island.

Alpha: The Alpha output bakes a map of the holes in the high poly mesh.

reference...

Can I keep talking here about UDIM vs UV set  or may better use mantis or request threads?

 " UV set"  and "UV tile" can not mix up. both 2 are for different work-flow. like "Glossy/ specular" or "roughess/metalness" (though there are more variation) 

 but "material group" (I may use this word as "user custom group to divide shader nodes")

so we can use "material group" for both work-flow. But "Material group" is not for texture, I think it mainly for "shader", on the other hands, "UVset" or "UV tile" is for texture.

So UVset can not represent "material group". it can not substitue of "Material group". if mateiral group = UV set,  it limit usage as  texture base only.

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I think since Andrew has replied and what I thought was broken is not. Of course what I requested still stands. I would suggest moving the thread to the feature request section of the forum where Udim and uvs sets can be discussed. or broken into two threads as not to be confused with each other. That is only my opinion of course.

I have been gone a lot in the last two years, only returning recently. I was keeping a track of 3DC but not using the software everyday. 

Edited by digman
added information.

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8 hours ago, Silas Merlin said:

I wonder, Is the behaviour of the Symmetrical copy tool for translation symmetry the desired behaviour ?

What it does currently is duplicate all the voxels on the layer on each axis that is set to more than zero clones.
which means that each time you press the symmetrical copy button, your layer grows in those directions.

There is probably a use for this behaviour. however, I wonder, are any of you using it, and if yes, what for ?

In other symmetry types, when you use symmetrical copy, you intentionally choose one section of the layer which you want to duplicate and replace the other side of the symmetry with.
you thus discard part of the layer.
I believe this is what is desired. it is how you expect symmetrical copy to work, I believe. Am I mistaken ?

If this is true, I think it would be expected that when you use it on translation symmetry, only the portion at the center would be duplicated, and everything else would be discarded :
In this scenario, you could use symmetrical copy an infinite number of times, and the layer would not grow.

 

---
Here is an example to try to explain why I am asking these questions :

I was experimenting with making a tileable terrain of sorts, and when I exported I discovered that it did not quite tile.
I thought of using symmetrical copy to ensure that it would indeed tile correctly, but the way the tool currently behaves does not achieve that.

I have not used the translation symmetry until I saw your post. Still figuring out the tool.  It does appear that when use symmetrical copy it takes the whole object in the layer and translates with the clones as you discussed. If this is the expected behavior I do not know. 

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Fill tool:

Trying to fill Object, tool ask to fill layer.

object fill layer.jpg

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22.09.20 4.9.62 (stable)

- Cutoff with curves stability improved.

- Corrected mapping parameters dialog.

- Tools panel in Tweak room restored.

- Re-enabled very old option (Prefs->Beta->Treat retopo groups as materials) in settings that allows treating retopo groups as materials instead of objects. This is just for tests, I way not guarantee that it will be kept in the future.

- Correct Presets panel in the Activity bar.

- Correct saving settings in the Brush Engine

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Thank you for allowing us to test the Retopo groups as materials. :)

I will test over the next few days and report back.  

I noticed one thing...

Windows Beta version 4.9.62 GL

Preferences/ Beta

The Treat Retopo groups as materials is enabled by default but does not work. 

When you disable it, then the beta setting of Treat Retopo Groups as materials works as expected. 

Somehow it appears that the check mark got put in the wrong order at least in my version... 

Others could check to confirm...

 

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1 hour ago, digman said:

Thank you for allowing us to test the Retopo groups as materials. :)

I will test over the next few days and report back.  

I noticed one thing...

Windows Beta version 4.9.62 GL

Preferences/ Beta

The Treat Retopo groups as materials is enabled by default but does not work. 

When you disable it, then the beta setting of Treat Retopo Groups as materials works as expected. 

Somehow it appears that the check mark got put in the wrong order at least in my version... 

Others could check to confirm...

 

Oh, seems text is wrong... I will correct.

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Windows Version Beta 4.9.62 GL

"Corrected mapping parameters dialog"  Confirmed... You can now move both the cube mapping parameters dialog panel and the preview window.

"Tools panel in Tweat Room restored"    Confirmed... The Selection and Transform tool panel now appears correctly when Selection and Transform is selected in the tweak room.

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On 9/21/2020 at 5:13 AM, Carlosan said:

Fill tool:

Trying to fill Object, tool ask to fill layer.

object fill layer.jpg

 I do see that a selection window should appear even if there is only one object in the paint room. 

Do you have more that one object in the paint room?

Windows beta version 4.9.62 GL.

When I have more than one object I get a selection window that comes up.

object.jpg

Edited by digman
Added information. Corrections.

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12 hours ago, Andrew Shpagin said:

22.09.20 4.9.62 (stable)

- Cutoff with curves stability improved.

- Corrected mapping parameters dialog.

- Tools panel in Tweak room restored.

- Re-enabled very old option (Prefs->Beta->Treat retopo groups as materials) in settings that allows treating retopo groups as materials instead of objects. This is just for tests, I way not guarantee that it will be kept in the future.

- Correct Presets panel in the Activity bar.

- Correct saving settings in the Brush Engine

Thanks all efforts and thanks test^^  

I may see how it work, when I tarnsfer mesh , retopo <> texture room frequently. (I still request, to keep material group in retopo room separatley as same as paint room, but you may need more user request,, I suppose)

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(Sorry for posting this question on the forum rather than in a private message, but it is because I feel it would be a waste to answer just to me when the answer could benefit others)

@Andrew Shpagin Could you please spare a few minutes to explain the nature of voxels in the context of 3d-Coat ? In a few words ?

My understanding is that in the following picture, One voxel is the whole space inside this white cube. Is that correct ?

I have always believed that we are sculpting into each voxel.
that is, if we set a tool's depth to say 0.01, then we are affecting 100th of a voxel ?
unknown.thumb.png.8e86d4a5d0a062adec6d8063b5a016ac.png

Edited by Silas Merlin

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23.09.20 4.9.63 (stable)

- Very little change - Prefs->Beta->Treat retopo groups as objects, text and hint inverted, this option tweaked to be safer for users that never use it.

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Things that cause a crash for me but for which I can't seem to be able to produce a file to recreate the crash on another system :

-Calculate curvature (separate objects ticked)
-calculate occlusion (separate objects ticked)

-painting right after baking
-fill layer with projection (when the current view is not alligned with the original camera position for the projection (from stencil)

knowing these things may cause a crash, I always save incrementally before calling the task, and after.
when reopening my file after such a crash, it is possible to perform the task without crashing.

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1 hour ago, Carlosan said:

Both versions GL & DX crashed ?

no I only use GL, I don't know if DX would crash under the same conditions.
those crashes do not occur with a fresh file, you have to work long hours in one session before it happens.

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If you are working with textures, maybe the vRam memory of the graphic board is not enough

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Voxel Mode

Surface tools > Freeze

Is working fine ?

Freeze.jpg

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I've installed the latest version but I have an old installation V 4.9.17  It does not show up in windows uninstall.. is there a utility  to wipe it? and would this get rid of all my custom smart materials that have shown up in just about every other version since?

 

 

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9 hours ago, Ascensi said:

I've installed the latest version but I have an old installation V 4.9.17  It does not show up in windows uninstall.. is there a utility  to wipe it? and would this get rid of all my custom smart materials that have shown up in just about every other version since?

 

 

The smart materials are in your user folders and don't get uninstalled. However, to make extra sure,  you can make your own backup of your user folder containing all your custom settings and things.

Personally, I use Glasswire to uninstall 3dCoat. I don't use the OS uninstall because it is not enough : the registry needs cleaning too.
I don't know if it is the same for everyone, but if I simply uninstall, the .3b files remain associated with the old version, and thus will not open automatically with the new.
So, I need to uninstall, then clean registry several times until all is wiped clean. Then I can install the new version and associate .3b files with it.

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1 hour ago, Silas Merlin said:

When you press "clone" in the Vox Slice tool, is it supposed to create a copy of the visible voxels ?
Because... it doesn't. it clones the whole vox layer.

Confirmed.  Appears to be a bug

 

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