3DCoat 4.9 BETA testing thread

[Silas Merlin]

10 minutes ago, Carlosan said:

May be... paint Mesh and UV mesh need to consolidate (as you can found on Mari) IF we can detach UV editor to second monitor. So UV editor on Paint room will be the new UV room, but no retopo mesh. -1.

Think about stages and stage modifications. 

In the creation process we go through stages and almost always those stages receive revisions and request for changes and modifications in which we must go back to move forward.

Uv room is confusing to me, and hazardous to use.

However, if I remember correctly it has attractive tools that are not in the retopo room. On the other hand it lacks important things you can do in the retopo room.

What if Uv-room and Tweak room were combined, and changes made in uv room did not break paint layers ?

I think it is important that Retopo mesh remain separated and unaffected by changes made to the paint mesh.

the notion of Sculpt mesh - Retopo mesh - Paint mesh is amazing and perfect, imho.
The trouble is that it is obscure, hidden behind the scene, probably unclear and confusing.
Maybe what would be needed would be a monitoring room that show the relation between the types of meshes.
It could show information like corresponding vox layers and retopo objects for baking.
It would also be a perfect space to centralize operations for taking a mesh from one type to another. Currently those tools are spread apart and sometimes hidden
-Retopo menu > Take mesh from paint room
-Bake menu > update paint mesh with retopo mesh
-Geometry menu > retopo mesh to sculpt mesh
-right click vox layer menu > retopo via decimation > cancel

One thing that is seriously lacking in my opinion is the option to bake the paint mesh to the sculpt mesh (with roughness/metal/displacement).
That is, because when you decide to paint on the paint mesh instead of the sculpt mesh, then making changes to the mesh or uv's often mean breaking paint layers.
The baking tool in the texture menu (to bake to a new mesh on disk) is kind of a last resort thing, it helps save some data and not have to redo everythng, but... it is not perfect
I think that being able to bake to a very high poly sculpt mesh instead would be more reliable.
When the painting is stored on the sculpt mesh, I feel it is safe there. Drastic changes can then be made to the retopo mesh and the painting is safe on the high poly for baking.

Another thing that is lacking but less critical is the option to export selected paint objects, not all of them at once.
When you want do do that, you need to save, delete some paint objects, export, and remember NOT TO SAVE again, which is error-prone

[pickers]

4.9.06A

1) Selecting edges in retopo room on selected edges = shift+control  = nothing happens.

2) radial symmetry 6 sides in retopo room didnt work well. Using move for one vertex should effect move for all 6 side vertices but it acted weird.

3) in sculpt room & retopo room, trying to shift "sculpt obj to model folder(sculpt room)" or "retopo obj to rtpmodels(retopo room)" didnt work.

 

[Andrew Shpagin]

1.07.2019 4.9.07 [beta]

- Presets got folders structure.

- Possibility to assign hotkeys to curves RMB menu. Hotkey will act as if you clicked RMB over the curve under cursor and performed the action. Same rule acts for sculpt objects.

- Correct "Reset space" in transform tool - in correspondence with tooltip.

- Default colors for seams/sharp/sharp seams changed to more bright. Generally, you may tweak all that colors in preferences.

- Lasso works correctly in voxel tools - it cuts surface where applicable. Apply button appears when it should appear.

- Fixed empty floating windows problem.

- Restored View Size option in render settings.

- More tools included in Voxel/Surface toolset.

- A lot of bugs reported in this thread fixed.

 

Sending crash reports, any feeback appreciated! I am looking it carefully.

[Carlosan]

Surface mode > Noise tool

If apply realtime is = on, when LMclick the mesh jump on screen, and tool options show/hide apply command.

[AbnRanger]

6 hours ago, lesaint said:

Please, no. :/

Care to elaborate? I see no logical reason for wanting to keep them separate. If you want to edit/fix the Paint Mesh, or make basic transforms, where you can set the pivot point and such, you have to jump through a bunch of hoops and the result is oftentimes not satisfactory. When baking, you are just baking to the same lower poly mesh. 

LESS CLUTTER

LESS CONFUSION

MORE EFFICIENT 

Please, YES!

[AbnRanger]

4 hours ago, lesaint said:

Uv room is confusing to me, and hazardous to use.

However, if I remember correctly it has attractive tools that are not in the retopo room. On the other hand it lacks important things you can do in the retopo room.

What if Uv-room and Tweak room were combined, and changes made in uv room did not break paint layers ?

I think it is important that Retopo mesh remain separated and unaffected by changes made to the paint mesh.

the notion of Sculpt mesh - Retopo mesh - Paint mesh is amazing and perfect, imho.
The trouble is that it is obscure, hidden behind the scene, probably unclear and confusing.
Maybe what would be needed would be a monitoring room that show the relation between the types of meshes.
It could show information like corresponding vox layers and retopo objects for baking.
It would also be a perfect space to centralize operations for taking a mesh from one type to another. Currently those tools are spread apart and sometimes hidden
-Retopo menu > Take mesh from paint room
-Bake menu > update paint mesh with retopo mesh
-Geometry menu > retopo mesh to sculpt mesh
-right click vox layer menu > retopo via decimation > cancel

One thing that is seriously lacking in my opinion is the option to bake the paint mesh to the sculpt mesh (with roughness/metal/displacement).
That is, because when you decide to paint on the paint mesh instead of the sculpt mesh, then making changes to the mesh or uv's often mean breaking paint layers.
The baking tool in the texture menu (to bake to a new mesh on disk) is kind of a last resort thing, it helps save some data and not have to redo everythng, but... it is not perfect
I think that being able to bake to a very high poly sculpt mesh instead would be more reliable.
When the painting is stored on the sculpt mesh, I feel it is safe there. Drastic changes can then be made to the retopo mesh and the painting is safe on the high poly for baking.

Another thing that is lacking but less critical is the option to export selected paint objects, not all of them at once.
When you want do do that, you need to save, delete some paint objects, export, and remember NOT TO SAVE again, which is error-prone

If you want a separate mesh, you should be able to copy/duplicate a PAINT OBJECT to work on and bake to that once your mesh edits are done. There is no good reason to keep them separated entirely, like they are now, where the Retopo tools are not available at all, to Paint Meshes. You have to send a copy (which currently clears everything else in the Retopo room...not good) > make changes and UPDATE PAINT MESH WITH RETOPO Mesh = messed up texture maps/UV's.

[thinkinmonkey]

Shortcuts seem working now.

Thank you, Andrew.

[Silas Merlin]

13 minutes ago, AbnRanger said:

Care to elaborate? I see no logical reason for wanting to keep them separate. If you want to edit/fix the Paint Mesh, or make basic transforms, where you can set the pivot point and such, you have to jump through a bunch of hoops and the result is oftentimes not satisfactory. When baking, you are just baking to the same lower poly mesh. 

 

This should be moved to a different thread, it's beta testing, not feature requests.

Anyway, I WANT my retopo meshes to be a separate entity from the paint mesh.
-I can store different meshes in retopo objects that I do not necessarily want to bring to the paint room at a given time.
-I can have a quad version in the retopo room, and a triangulated, or even subdivided mesh in the paint room

Painting on the "paint mesh" is very risky as you pointed out in your next post. I prefer to do all the painting on the sculpt mesh.
baking is the very last step in the process, when you do this.

So, after baking, when you notice errors that you need to correct, either in the paint room or after exporting, you just delete the paint mesh and go work in the retopo room then bake again.

if the errors are minor or you are in a hurry, you can always use the tweak room/uv room to make small repairs, but it is risky, you could break paint layers.
I don't think fixing 3d-c so that the paint layers never break is easy or it would have been done already. So, best option imho is to make use of the sculpt layers to paint a high poly in full PBR.

Treat the sculpt mesh as the final painted mesh.
Treat the retopo mesh as an intermediary, easily fixable low poly, and you can store different versions for different purposes.
Treat baking to the paint room as the very last step. As an analogy, when you bake a cake and you find that you made a mistake, the cake is not fixable. you start over and bake again.

[Carlosan]

Remember that some artist use only one room inter-changed in their workflow with other apps. Some only use PaintRoom for handpaint, others only the tools of retopo. That individuality is good to keep...

[AbnRanger]

2 minutes ago, Carlosan said:

Remember that some artist use only one room inter-changed in their workflow with other apps. Some only use PaintRoom for handpaint, others only the tools of retopo. That individuality is good to keep...

It doesn't mean there would be a merging of ROOMS....just Meshes. Like you can paint on a SCULPT (room) OBJECT...in the PAINT ROOM. Same would apply to working on a single mesh structure in either the Paint Room or Retopo (probably would be renamed to Topo or Topo Edit). 

If you want to do retopo work on a mesh that has no paint or UV's you still could....just create a new Mesh layer and when you are ready to bake, you simply bake from the Voxel/Sculpt object to that mesh...no COPY of the Retopo is sent to another room. It's already there. The baking would just add new paint layers to the same mesh. 

[AbnRanger]

...plus, this consolidation would remove the TWEAK room (which Andrew has wanted to do for a long time) and the UV room would be the only room with UV tools. No more UV section in the Retopo/Topo Room.

Less is more.

[Andrew Shpagin]

Just for clarification where we go:

The tweak room will be removed. Instead, all paint and retopo objects will be editable in sculpt room. There will be branches "Paint objects" and "Retopo objects" in VoxTree.

[Carlosan]

Thx Andrew.

Any news about detach Windows Panels outside Main Display to another 2nd display ?

[Rygaard]

12 minutes ago, Andrew Shpagin said:

Just for clarification where we go:

The tweak room will be removed. Instead, all paint and retopo objects will be editable in sculpt room. There will be branches "Paint objects" and "Retopo objects" in VoxTree.

Is there a possibility to allow the surface mode of Sculpt Room to allow geometry to accept UVs?
This way we could open texture maps directly in geometry and have the opportunity to use Displacement maps to physically deform and apply the mesh surface. And so have compatibility with Sculpt Layers these displacement maps.

I say this because there are many techniques (one of these techniques would be using XYZ Texture) that could be performed using texture maps in geometry that would accept and have UVs.

For example, in Blender, users have access to Modifiers (non-destructive process) such as Displacement Modifier, Muti Resolution Modifier, Booleans Modifier, and many others. And most of these modifiers use UVs - texture maps.

Thanks

[Javis]

19 minutes ago, Rygaard said:

Is there a possibility to allow the surface mode of Sculpt Room to allow geometry to accept UVs?
This way we could open texture maps directly in geometry and have the opportunity to use Displacement maps to physically deform and apply the mesh surface. And so have compatibility with Sculpt Layers these displacement maps.

I say this because there are many techniques (one of these techniques would be using XYZ Texture) that could be performed using texture maps in geometry that would accept and have UVs.

For example, in Blender, users have access to Modifiers (non-destructive process) such as Displacement Modifier, Muti Resolution Modifier, Booleans Modifier, and many others. And most of these modifiers use UVs - texture maps.

Thanks

This would be excellent to have in 3DC. As it stands now I either have to do the displacement in another tool and bring it back to 3DC, making a static point in the workflow where if something goes wrong I'd have to go way back to that point to redo it, and potentially lots of other work (completely undesired). Or, use another sculpting tool.  I'd rather stay in 3DC and have this as a function that you could have it toggle on/off. And if the UVs change it just doesn't work until you specify the UVs for it. Done and done. Any chance on this happening in 4.9 @Andrew Shpagin?

Thanks!