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3DCoat 4.9 BETA testing thread


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7 hours ago, animk said:

Ver 4.9.07, center pivot is missing in transform tool

I've not been trying .07, ( currently on .02, which I find quite reliable for my purposes.)

But every once in a while the centre cube in the gizmo disappears for me also, I usually just shut down the software and restart and it magically reappears.

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3 minutes ago, stusutcliffe said:

I've not been trying .07, ( currently on .02, which I find quite reliable for my purposes.)

But every once in a while the centre cube in the gizmo disappears for me also, I usually just shut down the software and restart and it magically reappears.

It doesn't appear in .06 or .07,  but it appears .05.

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In .07 I've been having trouble with Transform and Undo. I'm working on a project and posting WIP renders. For some of those renders I'll use Transform to move parts around. Undo is not putting them back to the way before.

So I'll have a project with multiple VoxTree layers, Voxel mode. Move one of the layers with Transform, go to render room and take a few screenshots. Back to sculpt room and hit Ctrl+Z.

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0.7,  alt Left click on ghost icon to isolate voxel layer,  saving the file turns off ghost mode for all ghosted layers .

Using hotkeys on To Global space/to uniform space  multi selects voxel layers if cursor places on the other object in 3d viewport.

Edited by animk
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8.11.2019 4.9.08 [beta]

- Freeze menu in voxel mode performs correctly - expand/smooth, invert...

- Fixed problem with saving render result

- Select edge loop with SHIFT, unselect with CTRL SHIFT become more intuitive. Try different conbinations. There are a lot of intuitive combo-s.

- Speedup of many laggy operations, especially in Undo, Empy UI switch, scene loading etc.

- Booleans in curves allowed by drag&drop

- a lot of critical bugs fixed.

Just for clarification where we go:

The tweak room will be removed. Instead, all paint and retopo objects will be editable in sculpt room. There will be branches "Paint objects" and "Retopo objects" in VoxTree.

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2 hours ago, animk said:

0.7,  alt Left click on ghost icon to isolate voxel layer,  saving the file turns off ghost mode for all ghosted layers .

Using hotkeys on To Global space/to uniform space  multi selects voxel layers if cursor places on the other object in 3d viewport.

This has been happening to me all the time for quite a few releases now. Any ghosted volume becomes unghosted every time the file is saved or autosaved.

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3 hours ago, Andrew Shpagin said:

Just for clarification where we go:

The tweak room will be removed. Instead, all paint and retopo objects will be editable in sculpt room. There will be branches "Paint objects" and "Retopo objects" in VoxTree.

Sounds great, just for clarity will we be able to work step up and down through subdivision levels on retopo objects?  This would be great!

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Wouldn't it be better to implement Modifiers (non destructive processes)? Among the various modifiers, including, if possible, Multi-Resolution?
Because if not, that way you asked, (Subdivision levels on retopo objects) you would miss the opportunity to also sculpt on this same object and Paint.
Sorry if I got something wrong.

Another very important thing, another workflow (parallel to what exists, without change anything) objects accept UVs even when they are sculpted or painted and the possibility of using displacement map on these objects to be deformed as needed (perhaps a displacement modifier?)

Just thoughts ...
In previous posts I've talked in more detail!

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9 hours ago, lesaint said:

This has been happening to me all the time for quite a few releases now. Any ghosted volume becomes unghosted every time the file is saved or autosaved.

Yeah I was just noticing the unghosting myself and was trying to figure out what I did to cause it so I could report it but I guess I didn't do anything if auto-save is causing it.

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1 hour ago, philnolan3d said:

Yeah I was just noticing the unghosting myself and was trying to figure out what I did to cause it so I could report it but I guess I didn't do anything if auto-save is causing it.

Manually saving does, too.

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13 hours ago, Andrew Shpagin said:

8.11.2019 4.9.08 [beta]

- Freeze menu in voxel mode performs correctly - expand/smooth, invert...

- Fixed problem with saving render result

- Select edge loop with SHIFT, unselect with CTRL SHIFT become more intuitive. Try different conbinations. There are a lot of intuitive combo-s.

- Speedup of many laggy operations, especially in Undo, Empy UI switch, scene loading etc.

- Booleans in curves allowed by drag&drop

- a lot of critical bugs fixed.

Just for clarification where we go:

The tweak room will be removed. Instead, all paint and retopo objects will be editable in sculpt room. There will be branches "Paint objects" and "Retopo objects" in VoxTree.

That sounds best, to me. Not having an updated Transform Gizmo and ability to move the pivot point, etc. made it hard to work in the Tweak Room...not to mention the performance lag at times.

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Switched back to 4.9.07. (edge loop tool not working here on 4.9.08)

First time I see this message, I think I understand more clearly now, once version 5 is out, sculpt layers will no longer work in old installed versions, I guess ?

I will upgrade of course, but is it possible to get an idea of the cost, and an approximate date at which this will happen ? Thanks.

image.png.c6da1401a85c1e1015bfc45684c3e6b9.png

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53 minutes ago, lesaint said:

Switched back to 4.9.07. (edge loop tool not working here on 4.9.08)

First time I see this message, I think I understand more clearly now, once version 5 is out, sculpt layers will no longer work in old installed versions, I guess ?

I will upgrade of course, but is it possible to get an idea of the cost, and an approximate date at which this will happen ? Thanks.

image.png.c6da1401a85c1e1015bfc45684c3e6b9.png

I think they are aiming for late 2nd Qtr 2020 as there is a lot of changes going on behind the scenes. The upgrade will probably be about the same (may be a small increase because they actually have added a lot of development help and it's strained their resources, naturally), but there may be some different options like Rent-to-Own (6month installment plan to owning perpetual license), and Indie license, etc. 

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4.9.08

1. The Update Preset command doesn't seem to work with the depth and radius brush curves in the Sculpting Room.

2. 3DC doesn't remember my Preset window settings from the previous session. Even if I "Clear All" my presets, then load in a new set, then shut down. The next time I open up 3DC, I have an old set of presets in the Preset window and not the ones that were there when I shut down, previously. The only way to fix this is to manually delete the presets in my Documents/3D-CoatV49/Presets folder before I open 3DC.

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2 hours ago, SilverCity said:

4.9.08

1. The Update Preset command doesn't seem to work with the depth and radius brush curves in the Sculpting Room.

2. 3DC doesn't remember my Preset window settings from the previous session. Even if I "Clear All" my presets, then load in a new set, then shut down. The next time I open up 3DC, I have an old set of presets in the Preset window and not the ones that were there when I shut down, previously. The only way to fix this is to manually delete the presets in my Documents/3D-CoatV49/Presets folder before I open 3DC.

1. I changed depth and radius curves, updated preset, switched to other one, switched back, all works as expected. Possibly you unselected storing depth/radius

2. Confirmed, will be fixed.

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1 hour ago, Andrew Shpagin said:

What do you mean? On my side SHIFT click selects edge loop as expected. CTRL SHIFT click deselects. What I missed?

It just doesn't work on my side. CTRL and SHIFT have no effect with the tool. Without, it just marks one edge.
I tried both GL and DX.

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@Andrew Shpagin I'm happy to report is looks like the crash with my large file that I was getting in 4.9.06  and 4.9.07 no longer occurs in the latest beta build: 4.9.08

 

I am not sure what you did to fix the crash or what the root cause was but thank you for looking into it. If I come across any other issues or crashes will let you know once I get more time to test things out.

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Subdivision bug still present V 4.9.08 and using 4x anti-aliasing crashes every time.. this is when UVs are set to 16k.  This a absolutely critical to resolve is people want to work with anything photo scanned related and keep the same quality.  Once you paint the model it's hard/time consuming to find all the displaced spikes and when brought into a 3D animation tool like iclone, the glitches become more apparent.  @Andrew Shpagin @carrots Is this even being looked into to resolve or is it a problem that's tough to crack and just shelved to instead get other simple problems fixed?  It might be ideal workaround if displacement painting in ppp mode could work with ptex mode since it doesn't use UVs then at least I could bring the model and textures into zbrush to bake out nm, ao etc because subdivision & painting is no problem there. But painting with ptex doesn't seem to get the depth from the smart materials, only alphas at this time, please change this -maybe this is the needed workflow. Perhaps a simple method to make instant compatibility would be to bake a curvature layer and in the rules add "by depth/smart material heightmap?

Maybe the fix is to not smooth the subdivision until the last subd level, this is the method people say works the best in Zbrush for painting and cross product compatibility.

Well in writing this I just tried full subdivision with no smoothing and the same glitches result (see image below the first) so maybe the UV creation has to be scaled slightly for each subdivision.

I know the anti-aliasing helps remove AO artifacts but it wont hide/remove the displacement spike artifacts at the seams.

image.thumb.png.03747c37e0594ebbbb0dc1953f4a82e0.png

Without smoothing below- same issue.

image.thumb.png.360a16b0daa97f8ea007360b72b6e376.png

 

I've been waiting patiently over a year for this fix, I have *several* models that I've been preparing for market that I'm now extremely behind in, one example below (the island) Thinking it was my fault I had remade most of them only later to see the glitches. After a while  I learned a method to detect if they were still present using AO with emission setting on (holes show black)

1900177523_TheIsland-Original.thumb.jpg.130e49338768d65b68798216f731871e.jpg

The displacement spikes show along the seams like this:

365173926_DesertCave-error_along_seams.thumb.jpg.22411b976fcf917f2fffc76fe76513bb.jpg

Maybe a workaround is a feature that will auto polish/smooth along the seams with a measure of falloff??

Edited by Ascensi
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Noted Issues

  • Strokes Modes like Vertex Lasso are still missing from key sculpt tools like Vox Hide. (others have since pointed this out )
  • Paint Layers no longer store depth, but commit it immediately to the surface geometry. (This problem has been occurring in the last several releases. You used to be able to paint depth details on a model in the paint room with depth in paint layers. You could then delete the layer if you didn’t like the details, or dial the depth opacity down to experiment with strength. It was amazing non-destructive workflow that’s now missing.)
  • Brush-Along-Curve spacing of brush samples is still very spread out if the curve contains any linear vertices for vox tools like SmoothFill, and Scrape.

Noted Improvements

  • The fact that code has been overhauled is great, glad to hear that kind of effort is being done.
  • Love all the new icons and UI cleanup.
  • Paint Layers Folders are so amazing. A great addition!

 

Comments

I know its still very much a beta, but I would like to see the above issues resolved over introducing other things like modifiers. Also, paint room layers with depth are perfectly good at doing non-destructive displacement.

Since it was introduced, the curves tree and curves editing tools are an amazing and essential part of 3DCoat. However, there was always something confusing to me about the way those tools were presented in the UI (could just be me though). I added an image that has my suggestions, just thinking out loud.

CurvesEditorSuggestions1.png

Edited by TreetopFlyer
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1 hour ago, TreetopFlyer said:

Noted Issues

  • Strokes Modes like Vertex Lasso are still missing from key sculpt tools like Vox Hide. (others have since pointed this out )
  • Paint Layers no longer store depth, but commit it immediately to the surface geometry. (This problem has been occurring in the last several releases. You used to be able to paint depth details on a model in the paint room with depth in paint layers. You could then delete the layer if you didn’t like the details, or dial the depth opacity down to experiment with strength. It was amazing non-destructive workflow that’s now missing.)
  • Brush-Along-Curve spacing of brush samples is still very spread out if the curve contains any linear vertices for vox tools like SmoothFill, and Scrape.

Noted Improvements

  • The fact that code has been overhauled is great, glad to hear that kind of effort is being done.
  • Love all the new icons and UI cleanup.
  • Paint Layers Folders are so amazing. A great addition!

 

Comments

I know its still very much a beta, but I would like to see the above issues resolved over introducing other things like modifiers. Also, paint room layers with depth are perfectly good at doing non-destructive displacement.

Since it was introduced, the curves tree and curves editing tools are an amazing and essential part of 3DCoat. However, there was always something confusing to me about the way those tools were presented in the UI (could just be me though). I added an image that has my suggestions, just thinking out loud.

CurvesEditorSuggestions1.png

I could not agree more! Please put all of the curve modes, selection modes, etc. into a panel that can be docked, moved, etc.. One thing that has always caused a lot of pain, and frankly I find it a bit more than frustrating, is how the curves popup always ends up in the way and there is no way around it because it can't be moved. It makes it impossible to place down verts for a curve. It should just be a panel like any other in 3DC.

Please Andrew, make this reality. :)

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