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Andrew Shpagin

3DCoat 4.9 testing thread

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On 11/9/2019 at 8:25 PM, TreetopFlyer said:

Noted Issues

  • Strokes Modes like Vertex Lasso are still missing from key sculpt tools like Vox Hide. (others have since pointed this out )
  • Paint Layers no longer store depth, but commit it immediately to the surface geometry. (This problem has been occurring in the last several releases. You used to be able to paint depth details on a model in the paint room with depth in paint layers. You could then delete the layer if you didn’t like the details, or dial the depth opacity down to experiment with strength. It was amazing non-destructive workflow that’s now missing.)
  • Brush-Along-Curve spacing of brush samples is still very spread out if the curve contains any linear vertices for vox tools like SmoothFill, and Scrape.

Noted Improvements

  • The fact that code has been overhauled is great, glad to hear that kind of effort is being done.
  • Love all the new icons and UI cleanup.
  • Paint Layers Folders are so amazing. A great addition!

 

Comments

I know its still very much a beta, but I would like to see the above issues resolved over introducing other things like modifiers. Also, paint room layers with depth are perfectly good at doing non-destructive displacement.

Since it was introduced, the curves tree and curves editing tools are an amazing and essential part of 3DCoat. However, there was always something confusing to me about the way those tools were presented in the UI (could just be me though). I added an image that has my suggestions, just thinking out loud.

 CurvesEditorSuggestions1.png

1. Restored.

2. Enable sculpt layers in preferences. Then it will work as expected.

3. I tried, but I don't see any problems with spacing. Please provide steps to reproduce.
Curves tree is just window like any other, it is visible regardless on current page or tool. So I don't think thta just opening of curves tree should enable curves editor. And curves editor works in parallel with other tools, it combines with any tool, works with same parallel logic as any other mode in E panel.

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Maybe I missed something, but in these latest versions, in retopo room, the shift to mark an edgeloop as uv with the 'mark seam' tool doesn't work anymore, is that intended?

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8 hours ago, Andrew Shpagin said:

1. Restored.

2. Enable sculpt layers in preferences. Then it will work as expected.

3. I tried, but I don't see any problems with spacing. Please provide steps to reproduce.
Curves tree is just window like any other, it is visible regardless on current page or tool. So I don't think thta just opening of curves tree should enable curves editor. And curves editor works in parallel with other tools, it combines with any tool, works with same parallel logic as any other mode in E panel.

Andrew are we getting back the lassos in Extrude and Build tools as well?

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10 hours ago, Andrew Shpagin said:

1. Restored.

2. Enable sculpt layers in preferences. Then it will work as expected.

3. I tried, but I don't see any problems with spacing. Please provide steps to reproduce.
Curves tree is just window like any other, it is visible regardless on current page or tool. So I don't think thta just opening of curves tree should enable curves editor. And curves editor works in parallel with other tools, it combines with any tool, works with same parallel logic as any other mode in E panel.

Thanks for that Andrew!

On topic 3, do you think though that you could make a new panel for this, and include all of these types of functions? It's especially maddening when using curves and that popup gets in your way. It's infuriating really. Years gone by now and that popup just blocks your view. Why not make a simple, normal, dockable panel for all this stuff?

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18 hours ago, Andrew Shpagin said:

At least I see that curvature baked incorrectly on 16 K maps.

I discovered EXACTLY what is creating the spikes - Adding a baked AO layer!!  disabling visibility on the AO layer doesn't solve it, the AO layer had to be deleted and then from scratch the depth is normal across the seams painting over them!!

1. new project dialogue choose PPP mode

2. choose your sphere example or an iso mesh (the problem will exist for any model but just choose the sphere for quick test)

3.set to new UVs, subdivision to the max, full smoothing and 16k resolution

4.When the project loads bake an AO layer with default settings-this works fine but if you try anti-aliasing at 4x or x16 it will crash.. first bake with default and set blending to modulate2x so you can see the uv seam artifact areas.

5. To paint use a material that has 8k or 16k scanned textures with it's depth map added to the normal map spot.. it probably doesn't matter about texture resolution but for the sake of following steps I've been working with try downloading a free light colored 8k texture from https://www.rd-textures.com/product-category/freebie/?topCat=88  Destructed floor or concrete should be fine and easier to see the problem.  If painting the surface doesn't displace then the 8k depth.tif file may need to be opened in photoshop and saved out overwritten with tif with the color profile checked.

6.When you make the material use the 8 k textures with the 8k tif file added to the normal slot. Set the size of all the texture s scale to 10%   unlock the depth and set to .5  or .2 . The Depth texture  set at a depth of 200%.  This kind of setting is tweaked differently for each texture.

7.paint to the surface where the seams are shown with black artifacts, the black artifacts are shown here.. it should be completely white but that's only part of the problem.

8. after painting the surface, examine closely the edges, you should see spikes appear at the seam areas and realize the texture/depth isn't meant to have spikes, examine the depth map if you need to evaluate further. It's not a stage/window glitch.. you can disable and enable "show displaced mesh"  under view, the spikes still remain and even remain after exporting the textures and setting them up in another program.

 

Expected problems

1.default AO settings with modulate2x (or set to emissive)  will expose artifact areas with 16k project settings

2. you should find that baking with anti-aliasing is not stable and crashes 3DCoat

3. most critical is the observation of the spikes along the seams, the spikes are not part of the displacement map/textures, try using your own textures for comparison. 

Maybe the problem is the AO layer not overlapping on the UV on a  model with subdivision  - it's not snug along the edges completely..  Maybe it's a matter of padding level & subdivision.

 

 

Edited by Ascensi
fix

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3D-COAT 4.9.09 (DX64)
1.Restore workspace
    It doesn't work.

2.The Clip Mask still doesn't work.

3.Sculpt layers BETA 
is enforced by force 

image.png

Edited by superman punch

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8 hours ago, Ascensi said:

I discovered EXACTLY what is creating the spikes - Adding a baked AO layer!!  disabling visibility on the AO layer doesn't solve it, the AO layer had to be deleted and then from scratch the depth is normal across the seams painting over them!!

1. new project dialogue choose PPP mode

2. choose your sphere example or an iso mesh (the problem will exist for any model but just choose the sphere for quick test)

3.set to new UVs, subdivision to the max, full smoothing and 16k resolution

4.When the project loads bake an AO layer with default settings-this works fine but if you try anti-aliasing at 4x or x16 it will crash.. first bake with default and set blending to modulate2x so you can see the uv seam artifact areas.

5. To paint use a material that has 8k or 16k scanned textures with it's depth map added to the normal map spot.. it probably doesn't matter about texture resolution but for the sake of following steps I've been working with try downloading a free light colored 8k texture from https://www.rd-textures.com/product-category/freebie/?topCat=88  Destructed floor or concrete should be fine and easier to see the problem.  If painting the surface doesn't displace then the 8k depth.tif file may need to be opened in photoshop and saved out overwritten with tif with the color profile checked.

6.When you make the material use the 8 k textures with the 8k tif file added to the normal slot. Set the size of all the texture s scale to 10%   unlock the depth and set to .5  or .2 . The Depth texture  set at a depth of 200%.  This kind of setting is tweaked differently for each texture.

7.paint to the surface where the seams are shown with black artifacts, the black artifacts are shown here.. it should be completely white but that's only part of the problem.

8. after painting the surface, examine closely the edges, you should see spikes appear at the seam areas and realize the texture/depth isn't meant to have spikes, examine the depth map if you need to evaluate further. It's not a stage/window glitch.. you can disable and enable "show displaced mesh"  under view, the spikes still remain and even remain after exporting the textures and setting them up in another program.

 

Expected problems

1.default AO settings with modulate2x (or set to emissive)  will expose artifact areas with 16k project settings

2. you should find that baking with anti-aliasing is not stable and crashes 3DCoat

3. most critical is the observation of the spikes along the seams, the spikes are not part of the displacement map/textures, try using your own textures for comparison. 

Maybe the problem is the AO layer not overlapping on the UV on a  model with subdivision  - it's not snug along the edges completely..  Maybe it's a matter of padding level & subdivision.

 

 

The problem is that on my PC it takes forever... 32 GB RAM/i7/4GB video...

Maybe video may help, or it may happen in more "light" conditions.

And I don't recommend using too highpoly meshes in Pint room. It is intended for normalmap painting, 3 million polygons for Paint room is too much.

Try as you suggested, but with not too huge subdivision.

Also, have you enabled or disabled View->Show displaced mesh?

 

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11 hours ago, Ascensi said:

I discovered EXACTLY what is creating the spikes - Adding a baked AO layer!!  disabling visibility on the AO layer doesn't solve it, the AO layer had to be deleted and then from scratch the depth is normal across the seams painting over them!!

1. new project dialogue choose PPP mode

2. choose your sphere example or an iso mesh (the problem will exist for any model but just choose the sphere for quick test)

3.set to new UVs, subdivision to the max, full smoothing and 16k resolution

4.When the project loads bake an AO layer with default settings-this works fine but if you try anti-aliasing at 4x or x16 it will crash.. first bake with default and set blending to modulate2x so you can see the uv seam artifact areas.

5. To paint use a material that has 8k or 16k scanned textures with it's depth map added to the normal map spot.. it probably doesn't matter about texture resolution but for the sake of following steps I've been working with try downloading a free light colored 8k texture from https://www.rd-textures.com/product-category/freebie/?topCat=88  Destructed floor or concrete should be fine and easier to see the problem.  If painting the surface doesn't displace then the 8k depth.tif file may need to be opened in photoshop and saved out overwritten with tif with the color profile checked.

6.When you make the material use the 8 k textures with the 8k tif file added to the normal slot. Set the size of all the texture s scale to 10%   unlock the depth and set to .5  or .2 . The Depth texture  set at a depth of 200%.  This kind of setting is tweaked differently for each texture.

7.paint to the surface where the seams are shown with black artifacts, the black artifacts are shown here.. it should be completely white but that's only part of the problem.

8. after painting the surface, examine closely the edges, you should see spikes appear at the seam areas and realize the texture/depth isn't meant to have spikes, examine the depth map if you need to evaluate further. It's not a stage/window glitch.. you can disable and enable "show displaced mesh"  under view, the spikes still remain and even remain after exporting the textures and setting them up in another program.

 

Expected problems

1.default AO settings with modulate2x (or set to emissive)  will expose artifact areas with 16k project settings

2. you should find that baking with anti-aliasing is not stable and crashes 3DCoat

3. most critical is the observation of the spikes along the seams, the spikes are not part of the displacement map/textures, try using your own textures for comparison. 

Maybe the problem is the AO layer not overlapping on the UV on a  model with subdivision  - it's not snug along the edges completely..  Maybe it's a matter of padding level & subdivision.

 

 

Thank!
16k AO bug fixed. Please try this:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1H8NjQmenwLlShe6rMkzk0rQophydTDnB

For the test, please copy these files to folder C:\Program Files\3DCoat-V4.9.09, and run 3DCoatDX64.exe

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1 hour ago, carrots said:

Thank!
16k AO bug fixed. Please try this:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1H8NjQmenwLlShe6rMkzk0rQophydTDnB

For the test, please copy these files to folder C:\Program Files\3DCoat-V4.9.09, and run 3DCoatDX64.exe

That is SOOO  AWESOME!!! IT'S FINALLY FIXED!!!  I can breath more! I was actually starting to tear up a bit..  If an artist can't create art and survive of his or her works it really puts a dent in their career and emotion/thinking.

Just to confirm, there are no glitches!  so far...  the AO layer is perfectly covered and there are no spikes when painting over the seams! High quality photo scan pipelines now can utilize this!

image.thumb.png.2a62afaf3e166077aadaa3618b56b181.png

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Found a weird shader bug in 4.9.08. I was working in Surface mode and reduced the resolution to sculpt larger areas, while there I changed the shader. When I changed back to full res the shader went back to the original, so I changed it here too. But now whenever I change resolution I get these weird grey blocks on the mesh. They are there regardless of what shader I choose.They're clearly squares at 2X but at lower resolutions like 16 or 32 they look blurry. When I go back to full res it goes away.

shader_prob.png

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4.9.09 DX

Ok, after further testing with CutOff tool and SoftBooleans I found out that if user define depth by picking from planes using "on plane" mesh corruption and holes are very rare.

The issue really rises when user is selecting depth from "depth limit" slider in the E panel. Maybe "Depth limit" should be greyed out when softbooleans are active and "on plane" be activated by default.

image.thumb.png.a67fa2f5e3bf0f94b26431320c92ae57.png

 

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4.9.09 dx/gl

PPP - Paint layers cant attach smart material to a layer,smart material icon doesnt appear in paint layer in layers panel next to layer, re-attach smart material crashes 3d coat. Painting on object with layer selected also crashes 3d coat.

 

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.9.09

1) stencil issue as seen in the pic.   Please ignore this. Stencil :: modulate will resolve this.

2) still cant drag the obj  to model folder in sculpt room or drag retopo obj to rtpmodels folder in retopo room.

3) shape lasso tools is still missing for voxel mode.

4) Symmetry for radial symmetry in retopo room is still misbehaving (flat hex or cube). Works fine for xyz symmetry (cube). Didnt try for radial mirror.

 

 

Edited by pickers

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Request to add an iClone export preset with displacement. iClone uses OpenGL, the green channel on the normal map is inverted. Problem I have is identifying the compatible displacement map (not vector)  I'm exporting often from PPP mode and the displacement in my projects are created from Height/depth maps added in the smart material's normal map slot.

When I've been exporting as tif or bmp , displacement looks right when only  when I crank up the multipler in iClone to 100% with 8 bit format. Is this right?  I use sharpen mesh on export and mesh smoothing in iClone  but he models still have slight cracks. It interesting if do an experiment like set the displacement alpha to black  is 0 then the whole model can scale and stretch to a drastic shape without any broken edges. Currently I'm exporting from layer0, sharpen mesh, use position upon export and Grey- grey based not normalized.

Anyway I just hope that someone knows the correct export settings so it can be added to the export profiles. I'm hoping that when imported into iClone it will look correct with  multiplier set to 1.0  I have exported it correctly in the past without cracks appearing in iClone.. I've lost my way..

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2 hours ago, Ascensi said:

Request to add an iClone export preset with displacement. iClone uses OpenGL, the green channel on the normal map is inverted. Problem I have is identifying the compatible displacement map (not vector)  I'm exporting often from PPP mode and the displacement in my projects are created from Height/depth maps added in the smart material's normal map slot.

When I've been exporting as tif or bmp , displacement looks right when only  when I crank up the multipler in iClone to 100% with 8 bit format. Is this right?  I use sharpen mesh on export and mesh smoothing in iClone  but he models still have slight cracks. It interesting if do an experiment like set the displacement alpha to black  is 0 then the whole model can scale and stretch to a drastic shape without any broken edges. Currently I'm exporting from layer0, sharpen mesh, use position upon export and Grey- grey based not normalized.

Anyway I just hope that someone knows the correct export settings so it can be added to the export profiles. I'm hoping that when imported into iClone it will look correct with  multiplier set to 1.0  I have exported it correctly in the past without cracks appearing in iClone.. I've lost my way..

All you have to do is create a preset in the Export dialog > save it (as an iClone preset) > (may have to close and re-open 3DCoat, first) go to FILE > CREATE EXTENSION > scroll toward the bottom to the EXPORT PRESETS > check the one you just created > hit OK. Then, send Andrew that extension and ask him to add it to the default Export Presets (support@3dcoat.com).

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With Sculpt Layers option active:

Create a Sphere in Sculpt workspace - > Surface mode.

Switch to Paint workspace to vertex paint it.

Select any Smart Material and paint over using 3 channels.

Result: Model geometry is destroyed.

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10 hours ago, AbnRanger said:

All you have to do is create a preset in the Export dialog > save it (as an iClone preset) > (may have to close and re-open 3DCoat, first) go to FILE > CREATE EXTENSION > scroll toward the bottom to the EXPORT PRESETS > check the one you just created > hit OK. Then, send Andrew that extension and ask him to add it to the default Export Presets (support@3dcoat.com).

Thanks, I know how to create a preset but the problem is knowing what the compatible settings are.  Recently I was looking over a paid tutorial's documentation working with zbrush, it states that the format should be OpenEXR 32 bits with a red monochrome map. It's a grey area for me because I'm working with 16k and sending it to iClone and more specifically 16k  is not utilized by many and therefore bugs on either side may be inhibiting proper function either from export or within  iClone as an import bug, maybe it doesn't import 1.05 GB exr I don't know.. i don't know if the  compatible exr file should create 1.05 GB files when generating 16k maps!

I've just finished testing exr at half resolution.. it loads into iclone but it only works like a normal map increasing bump detail.. I can increase the displacement level but it just seems to adjust the overall size.  However generating EXR from Zbrush seems to work fine @Andrew Shpagin  maybe EXR is not generating properly? the EXR for iClone needs to be a red monochrome map, I've opened them in photoshop and they  look greyscale. 

image.png

Edited by Ascensi
update

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23 hours ago, insignet said:

Tested Depth Pass etc... I still get a lot of banding, can't really use it in its current state, again hopefully it will be addressed.

 

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I encountered some issue in painting room with clipping mask layer option with folders. After saving file and reopening, clipping mask of folders is reset to none, after selecting clip mask layer back, changes are not reflected on layers in it, and its not working unless I delete that folder and create a new one.

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