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Andrew Shpagin

3DCoat 4.9 <Open BETA> testing thread

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@Andrew Shpagin Any chance that you will add a " Visible Transform Tool/Gizmo to the Lights" inside of the rendering room? Could be so useful...

"All with A Transformation GIZMO

---> Directional Lights, Point Lights, Spot Lights, and well Sky is already there :)What would be really cool is if you could add support for IES import on Light as well"

Thank you.

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Someone asking how to export just one paint object.....


I feel so stupid having to tell them to delete paint objects, export, reopen saved file, delete other objects, export, etc....
This makes 3dc look bad, really.... :(


Also, I believe 3dc could safely assume that it can hide your sculpt objects for you when you do this : Bake in retopo room, then move to the paint room.

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21 hours ago, Speike-Styles said:

@Andrew Shpagin Any chance that you will add a " Visible Transform Tool/Gizmo to the Lights" inside of the rendering room? Could be so useful...

"All with A Transformation GIZMO

---> Directional Lights, Point Lights, Spot Lights, and well Sky is already there :)What would be really cool is if you could add support for IES import on Light as well"

Thank you.

This would be extremely useful, damn, even crucial I would say... along with ability to propperly render emissive materials and clown pass. Overall, I think that Render room need some love from 3DC team, it have been neglected for a very long time.

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On 11/21/2019 at 1:26 PM, carrots said:

Just replace these attachments in your shaders in the folder "MyDocuments\3D-CoatV49\Shaders\PbrShaders\#A Stuart Folder\A Base Shader."

Your shadel comes from very old templates, you need to replace the mcubes.glsl and mcubes.hlsl files with new ones

mcubes.zip

Thanks, will try that.

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@Andrew Shpagin @carrots  comparing 8bit, 16bit and 32 Bit output for displacement using the Grey-based, not normalized the 32bit appears in photoshop as if its missing data shown in the map with red dots but if you look at the other map examples you will see them more like greyscale and more filled in. image.png.de77d9a9df7908af15d10f8b5b062f60.png

I spent some time showing what the outcome of each looks like and maybe I'm wrong or doing something wrong but the EXR and Tiff output looks multicolored.. is this normal? I'm not exporting with vector displacement. You will also see the glitchy areas. 8Bit BMP looks almost perfect but cracks are visible. 

 

741305407_DisplacementTextureProblemChart.thumb.jpg.e8794e2ed1d8f7239bd834c179ac5c85.jpg

 

The 32 Bit files even with export constructor doesn't load into photoshop or iClone with any gradient in red monochrome like Reallusion's example

image.png In the files I've generated it looks like its missing data. I'd privately share  a couple of my projects if you want to test them/test in iClone.

This is apparently how it's supposed to look in iClone (notice the Red texture in the displacement channel) : image.png.17a23e99a01f760465cf76e1ae7c0668.png

Edited by Ascensi
update

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You should use export constructor. Choose Mono, 32 bit. Assign displacement. All that is available ONLY through export constructor, not via separate texture export.

I opened exported exr file in PS, it looks correctly. And it is black - based, has negative values if displacement is negative.

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Just now, Andrew Shpagin said:

You should use export constructor. Choose Mono, 32 bit. Assign displacement. All that is available ONLY through export constructor, not via separate texture export.

Yes I have, I've shown the comparison,(the bottom of the second picture) it doesn't show properly in iClone.. the detail of maps using the exporter in photoshop isn't there and when in iClone isn't in red with EXR. Displacement glitches are seen. I've recently  exported with mid poly mesh (20 MB) and most of the errors are gone but it kind of defeats the purpose. There is a compatibility issue here. The latest example was created using half the amount of subdivision available and I increased the tessellation just to see if greatly increased subdivision levels were causing deformities in the exported maps but the same problem exists.

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And I don't understand gray based, not normalized... What if displacement is <-0.5? So in export constructor I use only black-based not normalized. If someone will explain me about gray based, I may do it.

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2 minutes ago, Andrew Shpagin said:

And I don't understand gray based, not normalized... What if displacement is <-0.5? So in export constructor I use only black-based not normalized. If someone will explain me about gray based, I may do it.

.5  is apparently supposed to be in the middle .. iClone uses a default 50 percent gray for no change inward or outward with the displacement    That's all I got that Reallusion has shared with me. Reallusion support doesn't understand normalized and not normalized, Zbrush doesn't even have it.  Personally it doesn't matter to me the method so far as it just works but Reallusion's EXR displacement seems to require just red but the detail is not there maybe because you are using black-based not normalized.

They do have other basic displacement textures that the output in photoshop looks like this:        Reallusion or myself doesn't understand what your normalized/not normalized option does but it makes me think it's doing some kind of brightness/contrast adjustment and the Reallusion textures seem to require 50/50 greyscale  

image.thumb.png.94fa4c8ffebfe4dad29ef5958602c7bf.png 

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10 minutes ago, Andrew Shpagin said:

Please give me any example of EXR with negative and positive displacement of a very different scale, together with model.

Ok, will see what I can do. Thanks Andrew!

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Is making voxels non transparent in flat shade mode a technical impossibility ?

 

Or maybe it would be just useless ?
 

Silly of me, I can simply make a layer emissive to achieve flat shading on just the object I want.

Edited by lesaint

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On 11/24/2019 at 2:23 PM, Mihu83 said:

This would be extremely useful, damn, even crucial I would say... along with ability to propperly render emissive materials and clown pass. Overall, I think that Render room need some love from 3DC team, it have been neglected for a very long time.

Amen. Amen. Visible, Transformable Cameras and lights, SHADOW-CATCHING (hopefully a reflective, too) MATERIAL, and true light emitting material. Would also be great if there was a full-viewport rendering mode, in the Paint and Sculpt Room. When sculpting/painting, it pauses rendering, just like the Smart Material preview does

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5 hours ago, Andrew Shpagin said:

Please give me any example of EXR with negative and positive displacement of a very different scale, together with model.

I just emailed you the model, textures and doc.  

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14 hours ago, AbnRanger said:

Amen. Amen. Visible, Transformable Cameras and lights, SHADOW-CATCHING (hopefully a reflective, too) MATERIAL, and true light emitting material. Would also be great if there was a full-viewport rendering mode, in the Paint and Sculpt Room. When sculpting/painting, it pauses rendering, just like the Smart Material preview does

I agree, current render is ok, but its way behind the competition. 3DC has got a good reputation among concept artists, but most seem to use Octane,  etc to render. It would be great to have a more robust render engine to keep 3DC in pipeline for longer. IMO

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I disagree. I don't want to see Andrew get sidetracked into wasting his time on building a render engine. At best he should either embed Radeon Pro Render into the 3D Coat workflow or make a really efficient plug in to render your 3D Coat sculpts effortlessly in EEVEE or Cycles in Blender. He's already got a partial implementation of Renderman into 3D Coat. He could just add on a more complete set of Renderman controls into the 3D Coat interface we already have. It's free, it's top quality. No need for more than that. Take a good look at Zbrush which has far more resources than Andrew for development; they're not wasting their limited resources over their BPR renderer. They've got a good plug in to Keyshot and they're letting Luxion do all the necessary specialized work to develop Keyshot.  And nobody among the vast pool of Zbrush artists is complaining about that. 

 

Jack of all trades, master of none.

 

Edited by L'Ancien Regime
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Its a valid point, but why not jump into blender for modelling, sculpting, retop, UV 'ing and rendering?  Isn't that free also?

44 minutes ago, L'Ancien Regime said:

He could just add on a more complete set of Renderman controls into the 3D Coat interface we already have. It's free, it's top quality. No need for more than that.

I agree with you... make the render inside 3DC more robust, if that's a bridge to another  render app, then great ( as long as its a full implementation of course )  

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1 hour ago, L'Ancien Regime said:

I disagree. I don't want to see Andrew get sidetracked into wasting his time on building a render engine. At best he should either embed Radeon Pro Render into the 3D Coat workflow or make a really efficient plug in to render your 3D Coat sculpts effortlessly in EEVEE or Cycles in Blender. He's already got a partial implementation of Renderman into 3D Coat. He could just add on a more complete set of Renderman controls into the 3D Coat interface we already have. It's free, it's top quality. No need for more than that. Take a good look at Zbrush which has far more resources than Andrew for development; they're not wasting their limited resources over their BPR renderer. They've got a good plug in to Keyshot and they're letting Luxion do all the necessary specialized work to develop Keyshot.  And nobody among the vast pool of Zbrush artists is complaining about that. 

 

Jack of all trades, master of none.

 

Too late. He's had one of his developers working on it for a while. As has been mentioned in the post before yours, one of 3DCoat's biggest markets is Concept Art. Andrew can lock this market down with a great built in render. I agree about the prospects for other engines like ProRender, but from what I understand, that has been explored. A major limiting factor was using large models with millions of poly's + PBR shaders + Smart Materials, etc. 3DCoat can handle that much better internally, than exporting to a standalone render engine, like it has to with Renderman. That is why the Renderman integration, as nice as it is currently, is still very limited.

I'm not sure, but I think the new render engine might be able to render in the viewports, which would be HUGE.

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4.9.11

After deleting a bunch of things in old files (paint layers, sculpt objects, retopo objects, If I start from there and do undo, it breaks the whole scene, vox layers vanish.
I think this has happened a few times now, anyone else encountered this ?

Apart from that and small annoyances like not being able to add new objects to the models panel, or not being able to adjust light/contrast, that and old persisting bugs, I am quite happy working with 4.9.11

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On 11/24/2019 at 2:44 AM, lesaint said:

Someone asking how to export just one paint object.....


I feel so stupid having to tell them to delete paint objects, export, reopen saved file, delete other objects, export, etc....
This makes 3dc look bad, really.... :(


Also, I believe 3dc could safely assume that it can hide your sculpt objects for you when you do this : Bake in retopo room, then move to the paint room.

 

I would also like a way in the paint objects section to re-order the list. Sometimes I have a lot of paint objects and having to scroll through and find each one toggling them off and on again can get tedious. Either a way to re-order, color code, or put in sub folders would be a great way to organize them more for sure.

 

But I agree, being able to export just one paint object would be a good option as well.

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12 hours ago, L'Ancien Regime said:

I disagree. I don't want to see Andrew get sidetracked into wasting his time on building a render engine. At best he should either embed Radeon Pro Render into the 3D Coat workflow or make a really efficient plug in to render your 3D Coat sculpts effortlessly in EEVEE or Cycles in Blender. He's already got a partial implementation of Renderman into 3D Coat. He could just add on a more complete set of Renderman controls into the 3D Coat interface we already have. It's free, it's top quality. No need for more than that. Take a good look at Zbrush which has far more resources than Andrew for development; they're not wasting their limited resources over their BPR renderer. They've got a good plug in to Keyshot and they're letting Luxion do all the necessary specialized work to develop Keyshot.  And nobody among the vast pool of Zbrush artists is complaining about that. 

 

Jack of all trades, master of none.

 

Developing render does not take even an hour of my time. It is a separate developer (Vladimir - Carrots) that is like me in terms of speed and productivity. He does many things now, including nodal editor and GPU texturing speedup.

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9 hours ago, Andrew Shpagin said:

Developing render does not take even an hour of my time. It is a separate developer (Vladimir - Carrots) that is like me in terms of speed and productivity. He does many things now, including nodal editor and GPU texturing speedup.

Adding Cycles free would be nice but I'd pay extra for an Iray plugin, it uses all CPUs and GPUs together, takes advantage of RTX OpitiX for realtime Raytracing wit AI denoising. It works very well with iClone. I also have keyshot 5, Indigo render and, Octane but overall I think I like Iray best for easy setup even for complex scenes.

Edited by Ascensi

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Displacement now works perfectly with the Grey -based red monochrome! Big thank you to Andrew!!

One last issue I have was the default normal map is messed up!  I've read some other users find a solution for blender such as setting non-color data but I found a temp solution for iClone which messes with the brightness etc. Can a proper default Normal map be generated without having to change color values externally?

Here is my temp solution:

1969380236_iCloneNormalsFix.thumb.jpg.b351df4c68cbaef06ec0647cc1e27a78.jpg

 

Actually there is one more thing. Is there an option to set the smoothing angle to a project that has already been painted? is this even possible?

There are other projects already painted that I need to convert.

I spoke too soon.. I looked closer and found a mismatch

image.thumb.png.9a78ff9dd051c462c8d5a3fc138b7261.png

Edited by Ascensi
update

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5 hours ago, Ascensi said:

 

Here is my temp solution:

1969380236_iCloneNormalsFix.thumb.jpg.b351df4c68cbaef06ec0647cc1e27a78.jpg

 I found the cause, it was a different material that initially looked fine. Maybe mixing different smart materials with different normal map types mess up the final output? if so maybe custom import settings for the Smart Materials UI should be added so 3DCoat can identify and convert all the normals to the same type on export.

The outside of the model texture1 looks absolutely fine when exported but the inside (second texture) was a different smart material likely with a different kind of normal although looks fine in 3DCoat.  I thought it had to be an issue with the textures.. below an example completely fixed with using a different smart material belonging to the same texture database.  Not only that, I no longer have to worry about play around with the RGB settings!

  528563896_smartmarterialswithmixednormalscanbreaknormaloutput.thumb.jpg.37fb936f0397ec263361d2e445a0d83a.jpg

Edited by Ascensi

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23 hours ago, Andrew Shpagin said:

Developing render does not take even an hour of my time. It is a separate developer (Vladimir - Carrots) that is like me in terms of speed and productivity. He does many things now, including nodal editor and GPU texturing speedup.

Well that's good news. Thanks.

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