Autotopo : why so horrible result ?

[Nephen]

I try to understand 3D workflow, but i have currently a kind of "basic questions" about retopo.

I try "autopo" for this mesh, which seems very simple… But i get horrible results. I do not understand why.

Is there some "hidden" pb with this kind of mesh ? Should i have created separated objects for some walls ?

Where should i draw strokes on this kind of models ? Should i draw then in both "faces" of this building ? 

"Instant Retopo" gives a better result, but i wonder how to figure i must tweak on not the result : depending on the camera orientation, some poly are correctly covered, then incorrectly covered. Should i fix every quad that must cover high poly  whatever camera orientation ? 

This i not clear "when should i tweak retopo" and how to control quiclky will be correct - baking the Normal map and use it in another room on the low poly ? 

Sorry for these basic questions, but sometimes it seems difficult to find answers on "basic concept".

[Carlosan]

Hi 

Create separated objects for some walls will help.

Check using this settings.

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Information related to Auto Retopology

Read the auto-retopology Guide

 

[Nephen]

I tried, activating or not "Hardsurface" The kind of thing i get….

If i would separate walls, i anticipate some pb in joining in these non regular corner sides. But perhaps it can be managed anyway. One wall for the front, one for each side, read, and then one wall for each interior wall ? 

[Carlosan]

The autoretopo algorithm is very sensitive to the size of the objects, at first glance it seems that your model is too small. Try to scale it to a size that occupies the entire floor grid.

And use strokes as guides for retopo edges 

[Nephen]

it looks now like i scaled object. Not even start sculpt.Same result : awful.  I wonder sometimes if retopo will not discourage me from 3D (

Retopo will decimation manage to do something, but of course, this is absolutly not what i want.

[Nephen]

In fact, splitting into several walls leads to better results… Ok let's consider, it s the solution...

[Carlosan]

Are you using my settings ?

Could you share the model to take a look ?

[kenmo]

I've not had any good results with auto retopo. And find the whole process very frustrating. I get much better results when I do a manual retopo. However I find the manual retopo process is takes much longer then it took me to create the original voxel model in the sculpt room.

I'm starting to think I would be better off using Moi3D or Silo3D to create my vehicle models and use 3DCoat for the original reason I purchased it, UV Mapping and texturing.

Tired of banging my head against the wall on creating models within 3DCoat if every time it has to be manually retopo. The whole process simply takes too long.

I need a better auto  retopo tool.

 

[Carlosan]

Hi 

Try latest version, is much better now

5.03.20 4.9.27 [beta]

- "Bend volume" tool to bend objects in scene along the curve.

- Eraser/Slice tool in new curves (polished)

- Compatibility with Quixel materials. If you download Quixel material into "Downloads" 3D-Coat will automatically notify you that new material downloaded and offers you to install it as material or shader.

- The same happens if you download smart materials pack from the 3D-Coat materials store.

- Correct symmetry support for all retopo/select commands. Split selected edges supports SHIFT snapping.

- Fixed free-form primitives UI in retopo room.

- AUTOPO from main menu fixed

- CopyClay restored

- Restored pinning menu items.

- SpaceNavigator lags (probably) fixed.

- Corrected running brush along curve (no gaps).

[kenmo]

I'm using 4.9.17 DX 64

I see  mention of a version 5 beta BUT no download links in the thread

Can you provide a download link to 5 beta?

Edited March 6, 2020 by kenmo

[Carlosan]

I have not any link to v5 beta. Sorry.

It is on development.

That thread is for beta testing v4.9

Latest version is 4.9.27

[kenmo]

Thanks kindly. For some reason I thought you were referencing version 5... Sorry about that....

[kenmo]

I did download the latest beta  4.9.27 and did a bit of testing using the DX 64 version. The speed is much improved and quite significant. However the same end results with the final mesh via autopo and IMHO quite unacceptable.

[Carlosan]

can you share your model test and retopo settings (screen capture) ?

[kenmo]

Sure..

Here is a screen capture of the original model before using the Vox Hide tool to break it into multiple pieces.

[kenmo]

Here's a screen capture the piece I tried the latest beta on.

[kenmo]

Retopo settings I used.

[kenmo]

I was quite pleased with my manual retopo. But it took several attempts and is quite time consuming when you have to do so with multiple pieces. Which I have been doing.

Edited March 6, 2020 by kenmo

[kenmo]

Since my manual retopo reported there were 482 tris, I tried an auto retopo with 500 faces and it produced nothing. So I then upped it to 1000 faces (see attached image)

I also tried various other face counts, increasing the amount. The results were less then stellar.

I love 3DCoat. It's a fantastic product. Especially when you consider the price compared to competitors. The manual retopo tools are easy to use. But I find the process to be too time consuming. I was hoping the auto process would give me the end results I was looking for. 

I tried exporting via decimation and could not get any acceptable results.

I tried exporting a dense model and using Blender 2.8 decimate modifier. And again nothing acceptable.

I'm hoping I can use an auto retopo option. Then UV map and texture my models in 3D Coat. Using them as props in my Vue renders or renders via DAZ Studio.

At present the best I can do is render the voxel scupt in 3DC and bring the rendered image into Photoshop, ArtRage or Corel Painter to be used as paint overs. I really want to create OBJs for Vue. 

It seems the only way to get acceptable models from voxels is to manually retopo. Something I'm really not interested in doing to the amount of time it takes.

I used to use Groboto3D which created meshes with fantastic loop edges. Even Moi3D produces end objs which are acceptable but not ideal. Why can't 3DC do the same?

Edited March 6, 2020 by kenmo

[kenmo]

Here's a segment of the model which has been further sliced into even more smaller parts. Thanks very much for your interest in my issues. I truly do appreciate it.

3DCRequest.3b

[kenmo]

Here's a screen capture of the attached model above.

[Carlosan]

I was trying to auto your project.

Voxel models were non-uniformly scaled. Remember to apply RMB > To Uniform Space to avoid brush deformations.

Transform: they are not at 0 value on X axis, is good to keep on center to use symmetry on retopo room.

//edit 

i use transform tool to move meshes to desire location. I agree that a global comand will be more useful.

//

Details: model size is very tiny and have lot of details. Is difficult on voxel mode to have Sharp edge details and regular faces, so for auto algorithms the operations to perform is not clear.

Look at this model done with Instant Meshes option. As you can see to avoid singularities we need high density polygons and still is not enough to keep hard surface topology.

For this type of workflow -as you said- it is better to do rough sketches using voxel mode, perform manual retopology and switch back that retopo model to sculpt room on Surface and live clay mode to add fine details, then bake to paint room to add textures or stencils.

 

[kenmo]

Thanks for the reply.

In response to your comment 

 

Quote

Transform: they are not at 0 value on X axis, is good to keep on center to use symmetry on retopo room.

 

I find this quite tedious/awkward  and far from precise. Even a low budget modeler like Hexagon3D has a more precise way of entering the x,y,z co-ordinates.

Edited March 7, 2020 by kenmo

[kenmo]

Quote

Voxel models were non-uniformly scaled. Remember to apply RMB > To Uniform Space to avoid brush deformations.

I do this BUT only when UNIFORM appears in red text at the bottom of the screen. Are you suggesting this must be done frequently even when UNIFORM is not displayed in red?

I guess the auto retopo function is not there yet? Even a non traditional modeling app  like Groboto 3D has the ability to export a quad obj with good edge loops. Moi3D exports to a much better mesh obj then 3DC, although Moi3D does use tris, ngons and quads.

I very much dislike the manual retopo process - 1) Takes too long 2) Hate having to model an obj multiple times - once in the sculpt room and then several attempts via the manual retopo process. Perhaps 3DC is not for me when it comes to modeling? I was really hoping the auto retopo process would improve. Life is too short and time is one of the most important things we have.

Cheers & many thanks for replying.

[kenmo]

1 hour ago, kenmo said:

You must have meant transform in the sculpt room as the transform gizmo will not move the model in the retopo room.

I did just try the transform gizmo in the sculpt room before sending to the retopo room and it was pretty easy to use. Not unlike Hexagon that I previously mentioned. I recall in the past I had issues with it. So my prior post is not accurate. 

 

 

 

Edited March 7, 2020 by kenmo
to correct post

[kenmo]

Ok. The model is zeroed out x-y-z in the sculpt room 

[kenmo]

But when I send it to the retopo room it.s no longer zeroed out.

[kenmo]

So how do I resolve this issue?

[Tony Nemo]

Apparently, if the software won't do it automatically (as one may reasonably expect), one is obliged to do it oneself.

[Carlosan]

Yes, we are limited to Transform tool to see any location. A global operator command for xyz coordinates will be more useful. 

I found all meshes on Non uniform scale, i am not suggesting to be done frequently. All meshes are on red state.