Autotopo : why so horrible result ?

[Carlosan]

Symmetry Global xyz are on local space, not Global space ?

 

[Carlosan]

If you ask me how to do it, I would not use a sculpture program for hard surface modeling. Sorry for my sincerity. Maybe zbrush with zmodeler tools but not even.

I personally use Blender, but maya, modo, 3dmax, c4d, houdini ... they all have dedicated tools for hard surface modeling that make the job much easier.

I would use 3DC for rough sketches in voxel measures. Voxel modeling speed is second to none (maybe sculptrix pro de zb might be helpful too). 

As example Sketch tool is an amazing fast boolean solution.

An autopo... is slow ? yes. Currently it is using only one core for processing (that will be improved soon).

Is useful ? from my point of view, only for environment or secondary assets. Not for hero models but could be for Mechas (with lot of mechanical parts)

[kenmo]

4 hours ago, Tony Nemo said:

Apparently, if the software won't do it automatically (as one may reasonably expect), one is obliged to do it oneself.

Yes. BUT moving the transform tool in the retopo room does not move the object as  it does in the sculpt room. See my screen captures attached. Kindly notice the option "Move Gizmo is not selected"

 

 

Edited March 8, 2020 by kenmo

[Tony Nemo]

"To Center Mass" doesn't work?

[kenmo]

Not in the retopo room. Did you not read my post. "To Center Mass" is an option of the transform tool. The transform tool does not work in the retopo room. So how am I supposed to center the model in the retopo room? It does work in the sculpt room.

[Carlosan]

Retopo room > Transform tool is only to be used on retopo groups or models, not for sculpt models.

[kenmo]

3 hours ago, Carlosan said:

Retopo room > Transform tool is only to be used on retopo groups or models, not for sculpt models.

I realize that.  But you criticized my dense mesh was not centered in the retopo room. BUT is centered in the sculpt room before I pass it to the retopo room, YET appears  not centered in the retopo room. Again I ask how do I center the dense mesh in the retopo room when it is already centered in the sculpt room.

Edited March 8, 2020 by kenmo

[Carlosan]

Maybe the model you shared ? Sorry i found it out of center but tail 

------------------------------

//edit

Moving all to center on Sculpt Room i get this result on Retopo Room

[Carlosan]

Another technical question (not a criticism)

Using Geometry > Scene Scale i found this values.

Was the base model imported from another app ?

[kenmo]

The original 3b file was 100% created in 3D Coat using only the Vox Hide and Cut Off tools. I started with the box primitive in 3D and using the Vox Hide and Cut Off tools the same way a wood carver would attack a block of wood with a knife. I used the transform tool in the sculpt room to position it in the center. 

I did export a copy of the OBJ file from 3D Coat and imported it into Hexagon 3D,  Silo3D, Vue Creator and Blender 2.8 to view. However I did not save the OBJ in any of those apps. I was only curious how the model would look in this other apps.  What I sent posted in this thread was the native 3D Coat file (.3b). As far as I know only 3DCoat can read or write to a 3b file, so I find your remark asking if I opened it in any other apps confusing.

 

Edited March 8, 2020 by kenmo

[Carlosan]

By default SSpace values are 0,0,0,1. Just for that I asked.

[Carlosan]

My test result using Instant Meshes auto.

 

 

[kenmo]

How many quads does it have. Sorry but it looks way too dense for my liking. Especially when it's just one part of several which make up the main model.

Here's my manual retopo of the same segment. It took several manual tries until I got something acceptable. Prior to taking on the manual retopo I did try an auto retopo but the mesh was either too dense and when I tried a lesser face count, it was a mess.

This get's back to my original point. Until the auto retopo process is greatly improved, voxel modeling and then a manual retopo are too long of a process BUT a good time waster if you have the time to spare. 

Edited March 8, 2020 by kenmo

[kenmo]

Carlosan - Earlier you stated you would not use 3DC for hard surface modeling. You preferred Zbrush and Zmodeler.

YET you constantly post links to kitbash kits for hard surfaces in 3D Coat. Why?

Also I thought Zmodeler was more for modifying car models used in games? 

Edited March 8, 2020 by kenmo

[Carlosan]

1 hour ago, kenmo said:

Until the auto retopo process is greatly improved, voxel modeling and then a manual retopo are too long of a process BUT a good time waster if you have the time to spare. 

I agree.

-----

I not use ZBrush, very convoluted for my liking. I use Blender + HardOps for hard surface modeling at work. 

Organic modeling = Sculpt = 3DC

Kitbashing = 3DC or Blender. 3DC is better to handle highpoly geometry because Blender have big display optimization problems.

-----
I think the good thing about having access to different programs is finding the tools that most help our work.
The search of each artist is personal and so is the workflow that each one builds. 

The type of work I usually have is to convert 2D drawn designs or photos to 3D. A CAD program would be closer to my daily needs, i know.

For personal work -at home- I prefer rough sketches in 3DC voxel mode, manual retopo, return to sculpt but in surface mode, retopo again and then bake > Paint > export.

[kenmo]

8 hours ago, Carlosan said:

For personal work -at home- I prefer rough sketches in 3DC voxel mode, manual retopo, return to sculpt but in surface mode, retopo again and then bake > Paint > export.

I really do not follow nor do I understand that work flow. Sculpting twice (once in voxel and again in surface mode) and retopo twice? Sounds like a lot of extra work for a hobby.

[Carlosan]

Depends on personal preference and the model shape. I like to have as much control over final topology as possible.

When i sculpt, the two paths I use are

Create Base mesh (box modelling at retopo or any external app), Sculpt, Retopo, Unwrap, Bake, paint. 

or

Create Base mesh (voxel/surface/lc mode), retopo, Sculpt, Unwrap, Bake, paint. 

I used vertex paint for a while before the bake, but the size of the project increased too much, now I only use shaders to get an idea of the base color of the palette.

 

From my experience, box modeling helps me see the shape of the model, the proportions and the silhouette.

And I follow the rule of 70% in big shapes, 20% in average details and 10% in fine details.

I hope I didn't bore you. 

[kenmo]

3 hours ago, Carlosan said:

Depends on personal preference and the model shape. I like to have as much control over final topology as possible.

When i sculpt, the two paths I use are

Create Base mesh (box modelling at retopo or any external app), Sculpt, Retopo, Unwrap, Bake, paint. 

or

Create Base mesh (voxel/surface/lc mode), retopo, Sculpt, Unwrap, Bake, paint. 

I used vertex paint for a while before the bake, but the size of the project increased too much, now I only use shaders to get an idea of the base color of the palette.

 

From my experience, box modeling helps me see the shape of the model, the proportions and the silhouette.

And I follow the rule of 70% in big shapes, 20% in average details and 10% in fine details.

I hope I didn't bore you. 

Bore me. Hardly. I appreciate your insight and advice. My point 3D modeling is a hobby to me. I have too many hobbies. Recently my main hobby has been digital photography and selling stock photos. I also enjoy antique cars (own one which I restored in 1983) and  2D digital illustration via ArtRage, Corel Painter, Photoshop.  Plus reading sci fi, fantasy, watching NHL hockey (used to play recreational  hockey but stopped when I turned 52 - haven't skated since).

I think 3D Coat is an awesome piece of software and once you get used to it super easy to use. However I hate manual topo because of the several attempts it takes to get something acceptable.Too time consuming. I've tried Topogun and 3DC's manual tools are superior. It is the autotopo function of 3DC that annoys me. Not meaning to be rude, but it sucks. It's disappointing. I tried ZBrush many years ago and hate it's interface. Only interface more confusing was Truespace.

I follow Abranger's 3DC tutorials on youtube. He is an outstanding instructor. The only tutorials I've never gained anything from were his topology ones. And that is not meant to be an insult against him, it is more a reflection on me. Abranger rocks and I would highly recommend him to anyone wanting to get their feet wet in 3DC.

Cheers & NO, you never bore me. I did not mean it that way.

Edited March 9, 2020 by kenmo

[sprayer]

There is Quad Remesher plugin, and it maybe best autotopo tool on market but it also was bad with your model. Maybe you should look in decimation tools instead of retopo.

So this problem not only 3d coat

[Carlosan]

@kenmo sidenote: Selling stock photos at 500px or another site ? can i ask which one ? Thx in advance

[kenmo]

Selling mostly editorial stock of cars/hot rods and some landscapes at Getty. And a lesser amount of creative stock. I have a smaller portfolio at Shutter Stock (mostly editorial). And a very small amount of creative stock at Adobe. Just starting to build up my stock portfolios.

 

[kenmo]

4 hours ago, sprayer said:

There is Quad Remesher plugin, and it maybe best autotopo tool on market but it also was bad with your model. Maybe you should look in decimation tools instead of retopo.

So this problem not only 3d coat

As I posted earlier I tried decimating in 3DC and with the Blender 2.8 modifier and options Collapse Un-Subdivide & Planer. Collapse seem to work best. BUT neither the 3DC or Blender decimate was acceptable. I would like to UV map and texture in 3DC as Vue now supports PBR materials.

Blender maybe free but some of these Blender plugins are 1/2 the price of 3DC. Despite it's poor auto retopo, 3DC is a bargain. AND I've never had any good results with the auto retopo function in 3DC. So this is NOT the first time I've posted my frustration with it.

Edited March 9, 2020 by kenmo

[kenmo]

3D Coat and Vue Creator does not seem like a popular mix. Googling found little on the usage of both. 

[kenmo]

Here is another model I created completely in 3DC's sculpt room and another model that fails in the auto retopo. I did this model last year and did not break it into smaller parts.

3DC is remarkably easy to use and create models like this. But what's the point if the auto retopo fails or a manual retopo takes LONGER then it did to create the original model.

3DC's auto retopo is a joke.

[kenmo]

In most 3D modeling apps that I've used any model you've created within that app can be exported as an obj that can be used in other 3D apps that can import objs.

3D Coat is the exception. Most models I've created in 3D Coat can only be used in 3D Coat.

[kenmo]

Tower model that failed via auto retopo. Yeah, I can do a manual retopo but that's not the point I'm trying to make.

[kenmo]

Here's the tower model in 3DC native format for anyone who would like to play with it.

Tower10.3b

[sprayer]

17 hours ago, kenmo said:

In most 3D modeling apps that I've used any model you've created within that app can be exported as an obj that can be used in other 3D apps that can import objs.

3D Coat is the exception. Most models I've created in 3D Coat can only be used in 3D Coat.

I can export obj easily and open in 3ds max no problem. And in 3ds max optimize for rendering

like this

 

[kenmo]

Thanks for the reply. I was hoping to do a proper UV mapping so I could texture it with texture maps in Vue. If I decimate and open the model in Vue then I have to use the Vue shaders which do not give me the look or results I want. But many thanks for the reply. I really appreciate it.

[sprayer]

Only retopo erase uv, this 3ds max optimization keeps uv coordinates so you can export or apply materials from 3dcoat. I also tried Quad Remesher it also not very good for this model.

By the way your model have much density what can make more sharper edges, and you should use symmetry for modeling it may help for retopo