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Autotopo : why so horrible result ?

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Selling mostly editorial stock of cars/hot rods and some landscapes at Getty. And a lesser amount of creative stock. I have a smaller portfolio at Shutter Stock (mostly editorial). And a very small amount of creative stock at Adobe. Just starting to build up my stock portfolios.

 

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4 hours ago, sprayer said:

There is Quad Remesher plugin, and it maybe best autotopo tool on market but it also was bad with your model. Maybe you should look in decimation tools instead of retopo.

So this problem not only 3d coat

As I posted earlier I tried decimating in 3DC and with the Blender 2.8 modifier and options Collapse Un-Subdivide & Planer. Collapse seem to work best. BUT neither the 3DC or Blender decimate was acceptable. I would like to UV map and texture in 3DC as Vue now supports PBR materials.

Blender maybe free but some of these Blender plugins are 1/2 the price of 3DC. Despite it's poor auto retopo, 3DC is a bargain. AND I've never had any good results with the auto retopo function in 3DC. So this is NOT the first time I've posted my frustration with it.

Edited by kenmo

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3D Coat and Vue Creator does not seem like a popular mix. Googling found little on the usage of both. 

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Here is another model I created completely in 3DC's sculpt room and another model that fails in the auto retopo. I did this model last year and did not break it into smaller parts.

3DC is remarkably easy to use and create models like this. But what's the point if the auto retopo fails or a manual retopo takes LONGER then it did to create the original model.

3DC's auto retopo is a joke.

FailedRetopo.JPG

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In most 3D modeling apps that I've used any model you've created within that app can be exported as an obj that can be used in other 3D apps that can import objs.

3D Coat is the exception. Most models I've created in 3D Coat can only be used in 3D Coat.

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Tower model that failed via auto retopo. Yeah, I can do a manual retopo but that's not the point I'm trying to make.

Tower.JPG

TowerRetopo.JPG

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Here's the tower model in 3DC native format for anyone who would like to play with it.

Tower10.3b

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17 hours ago, kenmo said:

In most 3D modeling apps that I've used any model you've created within that app can be exported as an obj that can be used in other 3D apps that can import objs.

3D Coat is the exception. Most models I've created in 3D Coat can only be used in 3D Coat.

I can export obj easily and open in 3ds max no problem. And in 3ds max optimize for rendering

like this

 APLfJYs.jpg

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Thanks for the reply. I was hoping to do a proper UV mapping so I could texture it with texture maps in Vue. If I decimate and open the model in Vue then I have to use the Vue shaders which do not give me the look or results I want. But many thanks for the reply. I really appreciate it.

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Only retopo erase uv, this 3ds max optimization keeps uv coordinates so you can export or apply materials from 3dcoat. I also tried Quad Remesher it also not very good for this model.

By the way your model have much density what can make more sharper edges, and you should use symmetry for modeling it may help for retopo

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I meant I would UV map it after doing a retopo. Not before.... Cheers

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Sprayer - Trying the latest version of 3DC that I have 4.9.27 DX 64 bit I did a retopo via decimation and it came out quite good. Much better then when I tried last year.

I may have re-investigate retopo via decimation. 

Cheers & many thanks 

Ken

Tower10.JPG

Tower10-UV.JPG

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Here's a quick lathe sculpt I did in Curvy3D ver 4. Aparently Curvy3D ver 4 uses voxels (kindly correct me if I'm wrong) I exported it as a OBJ.

And what the mesh looks like in Hexagon 2.5 and in 3D Coat

The exported voxel mesh from a Curvy 3D ver 4 looks a lot neater then when exporting from 3D Coat? Is there a reason for this?

Would it be possible to export a mesh from 3DC like the topology from Curvy?

Cheers & many thanks...

 

 

Curvy.JPG

Hex.JPG

3DC.JPG

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On 3/10/2020 at 11:03 PM, kenmo said:

But what's the point if the auto retopo fails or a manual retopo takes LONGER then it did to create the original model.

I guess this depends on your use-case scenarios. But typically auto-retopo tools are not going to produce professional quality work, they're not supposed to either.

As a games artist, any "auto" tool is seen as taboo, yeah we still use them from time to time but only on super low priority assets and only if there's just no time left to do anything else . Otherwise, it's business as usual, which is to create the best looking asset for as minimal resources as possible. There is no expectation that just because I spent a week on a sculpt that the low poly version should be done in 30 minutes.

I'm working on a character at the moment, currently at 3 days on the sculpt and will likely take another 3 to finish. It's mostly hard surface and I reckon maybe 2 - 3 days for a manual retopology. I think it's rare for me that the retopology would take even an equal amount of time to the sculpt, let alone longer. Perhaps you are just not comfortable with the retopo tools?

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38 minutes ago, Gary Dave said:

I guess this depends on your use-case scenarios. But typically auto-retopo tools are not going to produce professional quality work, they're not supposed to either.

As a games artist, any "auto" tool is seen as taboo, yeah we still use them from time to time but only on super low priority assets and only if there's just no time left to do anything else . Otherwise, it's business as usual, which is to create the best looking asset for as minimal resources as possible. There is no expectation that just because I spent a week on a sculpt that the low poly version should be done in 30 minutes.

I'm working on a character at the moment, currently at 3 days on the sculpt and will likely take another 3 to finish. It's mostly hard surface and I reckon maybe 2 - 3 days for a manual retopology. I think it's rare for me that the retopology would take even an equal amount of time to the sculpt, let alone longer. Perhaps you are just not comfortable with the retopo tools?

I've made many videos to show how to get good results from Auto-Retopo and in practice it works really well when you know how to use it. When people try to pump out a game-ready model in Auto-Retpo, by throwing a model at it, that requires 30k+ polys, and only give it 5-10K, that's when they have problems. Or they try to throw the kitchen sink at it, without applying any guides or without breaking their model up into logical parts. 

It's actually AWESOME with secondary parts that still would otherwise take a fair amount of time to retopo manually.

 

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Not sure if you're trying to defend against something I said, or the OP, but I would like to point out that I never said auto topo yields horrible results. The examples in the videos are nice, but again not something I would pass if a junior handed it off to me as final. For film or even realtime cinematics then fair enough, whatever gets the job done. But for in-game assets, auto-topo tools are not a good idea. Sometimes auto-topo + manual retopo is a good way to go, but I'm just letting the OP know that he shouldn't be relying on auto-topo tools as a solve-all solution.

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With hundreds/thousands of 30k "low poly" animating in the background, your system will take a serious beating. At the current state of autopo, even though it was better than before, is not good enough as a one click solution for retopo. A lot of massaging is still required.

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4 hours ago, pickers said:

With hundreds/thousands of 30k "low poly" animating in the background, your system will take a serious beating. At the current state of autopo, even though it was better than before, is not good enough as a one click solution for retopo. A lot of massaging is still required.

That's because it's NEVER been intended to be a "Make Game Ready Model" button. I can generate a good starting point for game meshes, but would require some clean up/optimizations of the mesh. However, there is a huge market out there not related to Games. Those markets can certainly benefit from Auto-Retopo. Z-Remesher isn't designed for game models, either.

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7 hours ago, pickers said:

With hundreds/thousands of 30k "low poly" animating in the background, your system will take a serious beating. At the current state of autopo, even though it was better than before, is not good enough as a one click solution for retopo. A lot of massaging is still required.

That's fine for the pros who work on animations for Marvel, Disney or Pixar. But I'm just a hobbyist who will use a 3D model once or maybe a couple of times. May give it away free at sites like ShareCG. Some times I will texture a voxel model in 3DCs paint room, do a render in 3DC and take the image into Photoshop or Painter. However I would prefer to have a uv mapped model so I can render it in Vue Creator and apply either photo images or Vue materials. Vue now supports pbr materials. Something it did not do.

3D is only a hobby. I am nowhere near the skill set of the majority here. I also dabble in digital photography. I use too many digital apps to be a master of any.  3DCoat is only one of many - Hexagon3D 2.5, Silo 3D, Vue Creator, DAZ Studio, Curvy3D, Poser Pro 11, Corel Painter, Photoshop CC, Lightroom Classic, ArtRage 5.0,  Moi3D,  Groboo3D, Wings3D. Now throw in looking after a 89 year old father and finding time to spend on my 50+ year old Corvette. 

Presently trying to teach myself Quixer Mixer, Blender 2.8 and Chip Walter's KitOps addon.

I spend 80% of my computer time in Lightroom, Photoshop & NIK / Topaz plugins. So the time I spend on 3D is limited.

Cheers and many thanks to those that took the time to reply. I do not mean to be confrontational or rude. That is not my intent. Love 3DC. Just hate the manual topo process even though the 3DC tools make it fairly easy. I just do not have the time and find it takes a long time. At my age closing in on 70, one tends to get impatient quite easily. At least that is my experience.

Edited by kenmo

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Having some down time I did a manual retopo of my space ship. I actually found it much easier to do a manual retopo of the complete ship and not sliced into multiple pieces.

The voxel sculpt. Object completed 100% in 3DC and I did not use MOI3D, Silo3D, Hexagon 2.5, etc, All in 3DC.

Sculpt.JPG

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Manual retopo & subdivide

ManualRetopo.JPG

ManualRetopo.JPG

Edited by kenmo

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Mesh after baking with sculpt.

ManualRetop&Bake.JPG

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I also tried an auto retopo via decimation and got this...

AutoDecimate.JPG

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However when I bring the decimated retopo & baked object into the paint room I get this after applying the same material I used on the manual retopo & baked object.

Why does the paint look so odd on the decimated mesh and nothing like the manual retopo?

Cheers & many thanks

 

AutoDecimateBakeJPG.JPG

Edited by kenmo

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