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Moi3D ver 4 Jan 22-2020 Beta now has subD support


kenmo
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Just downloaded the latest beta Jan 22-2020 of Moi3D ver 4 and was surprised to see it now has subD support. I imported the spaceship I created in 3DC. And exported the retopo'd OBJ and imported in MOI3D ver 4.

It was taking too long to import on my I7-4700 and  I also had Adobe Lightroom & Photoshop opened. So I installed MOI3D beta 4 on my newly built AMD Ryzen 7 3700X and after several minutes the OBJ opened (122,000 faces). WOW. This could be a game changer for me!!!

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Next I did a boolean differenace  operation using a sphere I created in MOI3D.

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After several minutes the round hole was created in the 3DC mesh. 

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Why are you using Nurbs program this is completely different software, if you planing to work in that space better learn nurbs sftoware like rhino or inverter or 360fusion, they are standard in nurbs modelling what needs in jewelry or prototyping devices for production. Still i don't understand your workflow 3dcoat to nurbs -_-

By the way nurbs is bad choice for renderings sfotware, because they have many polygons at importing it converts to poly, and big problem what they are often not welded and have holes  on connections

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Exported from MOI3D and imported into 3DC's paint room

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Imported into 3DCs sculpt room as a surface object

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2 minutes ago, sprayer said:

Why are you using Nurbs program this is completely different software, if you planing to work in that space better learn nurbs sftoware like rhino or inverter or 360fusion, they are standard in nurbs modelling what needs in jewelry or prototyping devices for production. Still i don't understand your workflow 3dcoat to nurbs -_-

By the way nurbs is bad choice for renderings sfotware, because they have many polygons at importing it converts to poly, and big problem what they are often not welded and have holes  on connections

I already own MOI3D ver 3. It's purchase price was a third of Rhinos. AND I believe MOI3D's creator Michael Gibson was also involved in the creation of Rhino. To upgrade to version 4 of MOI3D will only cost me $100 USA or $150 Canadian.

As far as workflow, just playing with MOI3D beta and trying a few things.

When I created a hot rod 3D model I used Hexagon 3D, Silo3D and a bit of MOI3D. 

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But why are you using nurbs? I know how it looks as surface and told it is often have holes

here example of STP file opened as polygons

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so it not very accurate for rendering glass like this it may have wrong refraction with liquid and visible artifacts.

And this models using in production it is CAD software not for artist like you)

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MOI3D is aimed at artists. 

http://moi3d.com/

Not sure why you are upset I use MOI3D. 

Does it really matter if someone uses Sketchup, MOI3D, Blender, ZBrush, 3DCoat, Silo3D, Lightwave, Maya, Cinema4D, etc?

It's the end product that matters.

SO let me ask YOU, why is it a bad thing MOI3D now has subD support? There is a thread on the MOI3D forums and MOST of the users there are elated.

http://moi3d.com/forum/

 

MOI3D.JPG

Edited by kenmo
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I am not upset nurbs is just not for artists but for engineers, for production using CNC machine, for calculation of weight materials in jewelry production etc. This is completely different modelling process, more accurate more slowly but this models hard to use in rendering and games so why you want to use it?  

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I am a hobbyist. I do not model for the game engines or the gaming industry. I only model for my own illustrations. I prefer to use them as props in Vue or Daz renders. OR render them in 3DC and then bring the image into Photoshop CC (plugins Filter Forge & Topaz Studio), Corel Painter 2019 or ArtRage 5 and paint over them.

Here is an example of what I mean.

I created the crane in MOI3D

 

Moi3D Crane.JPG

Edited by kenmo
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The spaceship was modeled in Hexagon 3D, detailed, textured and rendered in 3DCoat.

Using the two 3DC images,I created the image below in Photoshop & Topaz plugins. Details were hand sketched in Photoshop.

I was going for a heavy Metal type of illustration created by Moebius.

I am nowhere near the 3D skill set of most of the members here. I may use a work flow most would rightfully snicker at. 

At the age of 66 I am more interested in end results then techniques or being perfect. I only create art for myself not for Marvel, ImagineFX( love that magazine), Blizzard or Epic Games.  And NEVER will :-).

FW92=Arrival at a Distant Spaceport=KRM02.jpg

Edited by kenmo
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Looks fine to be used as props in drawings. In fact awesome in your hands. Probably Moi3d is not a good option for cad or games. Was excited when i saw your imported 3dc mesh to moi3D and thought it would solve the "instant" retopo for meshes. But non welded vertices is going to be an issue at least for me. It could be even usable in movie animation for simple motion objects like spaceships or asteriods.

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I've played around with MOI3D and it's useful to an artist alright. There's certain things you can do in that program that you can't do in 3D Coat. Like what you say?  Like bevels and chamfers on irregularly shaped edges between two boolean union objects for example. You find a lot of such bevels and chamfers on an engine block.  You simply cannot do that in 3D Coat, or even if in certain limited cases you can it's an immense time consuming chore involving all sorts of involved strategems while with MOI 3D it's simply a matter of selecting an edge with your cursor then hitting a button and then if you want you can fiddle with it by punching in some various parameters. And then there's long curvilinear swept shapes with varying profiles too; yeah you can sort of do that in 3D Coat but hmm...not really.  I'm a great believer in multiple tool approaches to problems we encounter in attempting to creat the things we desire. I think it's great that Kenmo is using MOI 3D in his workflow, and it's great to use 3D Coat too. I love 3D Coat. You should probably throw Teya Conceptor in there too just because Arseniy Korablev is an awesome guy.  There's a ton of stuff in Houdini too, where the boundaries between modeling and texturing melt and fuse into something amazing, more mind bending than any drug. But then on the other hand, there's certain things you can do in 3D Coat that you can't do in any of those programs. It's a superb pleasure to move your object, your file or data or whatever you want to call it from one format to another, one program to another to work on it, like an alchemist distilling, heating, cooling, alloying, fermenting, some substance in the hopes of producing the Philosophers' Stone.

And strictly speaking MOI3D isn't a CAD program. CAD programs produce BREP models. MOI3D is more of a NURBS modeler, for a designer. It's for producing a certain kind of aesthetic, not for producing technical models for stress, shear strengths, heat diffusion or weight estimations. Of course it doesn't have the very expensive high end algorithms that Alias Auto Studio or ICEM Surf have for producing Class A surfaces. Even Rhino doesn't have those; that's why Rhino is close to $1000 and Alias Auto Studio is something like $64,000.00 and ICEM Surf as part of CATIA is at least $20,000 plus over $3000  in annual maintenance  and remote server fees. 

Having said all that, I've tried to see how far I can push 3D Coat down that Alias road, in this case by copying the work of the unparalleled master of NURBS modeling Daniel Simon. 

https://danielsimon.com

 

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Here's my 100% 3D Coat cable imitating Daniel's

 

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As you can see there's some serious deficiencies in my voxel model's irregular chamfers between various geometric objects; the problem is in striking the correct tangency where the chamfers segue into the objects, from one to another. Only NURBS and to a cruder degree BREP are going to truly do that for you. I need to do further experiments with Mesh Fusion in Modo or Groboto to see just how far it permits that kind of perfect  tangency in the irregular segue between two boolean shapes in union. But then Modo costs $599 annually and MOI 3D is something like $300 for a permanent license. Both do the same trick though perhaps MOI 3D is more precise? 

 

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Edited by L'Ancien Regime
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Daniel Simon is awesome. I purchased two of his books "Cosmic Motors" which has a foreward by the legendary Syd Mead and "The Time Less Racer" which is a hugely over sized book that does not sit well on my book shelves among my many 3D, graphic novels, NHL hockey, Photoshop, automotive history, hot rods, US Civil War WWII and ancient & medieval history books.

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L'Ancien Regime I am not sure why you say that Rhino or moi3d for that matter doesn't do BREP- Please see https://www.grasshopper3d.com/forum/topics/differences-between-brep-nurbssurface-geometrybase-and-surface for the definitions I am working with. Anytime that a NURBS surface modeler knits or trims surfaces it is creating a BREP-boundary representation. 
The latest Blender has some configs that can very nicely approximate Maya and Modo UIs. It is absolutely possible to model Daniel Simon's works in Blender. He, in fact, is doing some very nice experiments with Blender poly/SubD concept modeling. See here https://www.instagram.com/p/B8jYvRzFa-a/ 

kenmo- Michael Gibson has a very elegant mindset. He tries to do the most with the least. I love that the moi3d interface is so so sparse and functional. His implementation of SubD to NURBS is also very clean. I've run some comparisons to high-end Siemens NX and it is much lighter. It is most definitely a great tool for modelers.  

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I like creating greebles in MOI3D which I use in 3DC's Sculpt room or as displacement brushes in 3DC's paint room.

 

 

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5 hours ago, parel said:

L'Ancien Regime I am not sure why you say that Rhino or moi3d for that matter doesn't do BREP- Please see https://www.grasshopper3d.com/forum/topics/differences-between-brep-nurbssurface-geometrybase-and-surface for the definitions I am working with. Anytime that a NURBS surface modeler knits or trims surfaces it is creating a BREP-boundary representation. 
The latest Blender has some configs that can very nicely approximate Maya and Modo UIs. It is absolutely possible to model Daniel Simon's works in Blender. He, in fact, is doing some very nice experiments with Blender poly/SubD concept modeling. See here https://www.instagram.com/p/B8jYvRzFa-a/ 

kenmo- Michael Gibson has a very elegant mindset. He tries to do the most with the least. I love that the moi3d interface is so so sparse and functional. His implementation of SubD to NURBS is also very clean. I've run some comparisons to high-end Siemens NX and it is much lighter. It is most definitely a great tool for modelers.  

I think that it's legitimate to distinguish between BREP and NURBS. Yes they share a lot in common technically but in practice they're two different animals, two entirely different toolsets. That's why Autodesk has both Inventor and Alias programs. Engineers will use BREP for their mechanical and electrical designs and Industrial Designers will use Alias to create an attractive form around the functional guts of the device. I think we can agree that car body designers definitely distinguish between the two uses of this technology, and I'd like to see the mechanical engineer that designs a car engine to manufacturing specs in Alias. I doubt if that has ever happened. BREP is for solid modeling, it has a boundary on all sides. NURBS can be just a 2D surface that doesn't imply any solidity to it. It's not a mass, it's a skin. One is for engineering, the other for design.

 

 

  And yeah Daniel Simon is using Blender to design stuff..but not in NURBS...he's using it for SubD modelling.  He posted this example on Twitter just a few months ago;

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6 hours ago, kenmo said:

Daniel Simon is awesome. I purchased two of his books "Cosmic Motors" which has a foreward by the legendary Syd Mead and "The Time Less Racer" which is a hugely over sized book that does not sit well on my book shelves among my many 3D, graphic novels, NHL hockey, Photoshop, automotive history, hot rods, US Civil War WWII and ancient & medieval history books.

Both are great books but The Timeless Racer is full of amazing NURBS modeling. It's so beautiful, so perfect.

 

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Edited by L'Ancien Regime
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20 hours ago, kenmo said:

Does he have any online tutorials?

No. In fact, I don't even think he uses Alias ( as much) anymore. Last I heard he had some young Alias  NURBS wizard in Los Angeles doing a lot of that work while he just travels around to the coolest places in the world drumming up new business with elite corporations...like doing the livery for F1 cars and his special project, RoboRace, not to mention stuff he does for the movie industry. The work he does now seems to mainly be concept work on paper that he does with his array of technical felt pens.

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Edited by L'Ancien Regime
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