Applink Developer haikalle Posted July 26, 2020 Applink Developer Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 (edited) Hi! Please write here your feature requests about UDIM workflow. I'm using Blender for my main App so integration between these two are one of my goals too. I will follow this thread very closely and see if I can implement as least some of your ideas. I use UDIM iworkflow very often.. so helping you I help myself too Here my idea: 1. User is able to name tile names 1001, 1002, etc to something else. Under the hood name is not changed but only for user eyes. Special build: 3DCoatGL64.zip - Keeps materials when importing udim objects - "Export uv sets as tiles" in export window works correctly now Edited September 22, 2020 by haikalle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 Related: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 Related (as reference) https://magazine.substance3d.com/paint-across-uv-tiles-udims-in-substance-painter/ Article on UDIM:http://www.fxguide.com/featured/udim-uv-mapping/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applink Developer haikalle Posted July 27, 2020 Author Applink Developer Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 I want to ask this question in here too. When you paint your mesh. Is it important to see all tiles in texture window. I kind of like how 3d-coat works now. You only focus on tile you are working on it. I can see that when you modify uvmap you need to see more tiles at same time. I have an idea how to solve this issue. But the the main question for all. Do you need to see all tiles while painting mesh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted July 28, 2020 Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 At mantis, if you filter "tiles" lot of request are listed and are related to your question. I selected this as my priority list considering the current workflows and tools usable in other apps. Texel density checker by uvset and by several uvsets if we use udims Importing multiple image using udim tag Ability to switch from Single to Multi-UV Tile in the Texture Editor Thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor AntonTenitsky Posted July 28, 2020 Contributor Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 Well, rectangular UV's where you could layout a gun for 4096x2048 would have been really awesome. Substance can't do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 Please check this link, look at Distribute Space option. Thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted August 1, 2020 Report Share Posted August 1, 2020 source... On 4/19/2015 at 11:13 PM, TimmyZDesign said: Yeah it seems to me that UV Sets pretty much serve the same purpose as UV Tiles, but somehow UV tiling became the more popular method, people just got used to it, so now they expect it in all 3D software. UV tiling really is just a matter of spreading out the UV Sets in the x and y directions, so you can look at all of them in rows and columns at the same time. I guess seeing them spread out all at once really is better than searching through a pile of UV Sets stacked on top of each other, so in that respect UV Tiles are superior to UV Sets. Andrew really should just make the UV space bigger to allow for tiling, then all the people who are used to tiles would be happy...but I guess that somehow isn't an easy change to make in the software, so he is hoping people will just accept using UV Sets instead. The biggest problem for people using tiling is that the location of each tile is actually important, since each tile is given a specific number, and each external 3D app uses that number to reference which texture map is applied to the 3D mesh. So if all the tiles are converted to UV Sets while working in 3D-Coat, then they need to be put back into their exact original location when they are exported back out of 3D-Coat (by both row and column). It would be best to keep them as tiles in their original locations for the entire process of moving them between apps. That's why Andrew really needs to support UV tiling in 3D-Coat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member tokikake Posted September 20, 2020 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 20, 2020 I agree Carlosan attatched view. (keep "full UV" which we made, in everyroom where we check UV and 2D paint ) + easy set resolution for each UV tile. so we should have 2 different option. 1, use UV sets, 2 use UDIM . it need to be decided by user as same as" glossy or roughness." About both case, 3d coat UV (2d paint) view show "full UV" of the mesh as default. But change visible (active) parts of UV with "material group" or "UV sets/UV tile" selection . ] and when export texture, we may need both options. "UV set work-flow" "export texture for each "material group" or "UV sets" "UDIM work-flow" "export texture for each "material group" or "UV tiles" (if single material group cover multi tiles, 3d coat alert, the material group. and may generate all tiles texrure which currently used for the material group. But I think it is almost user miss. and 3d coat may need not to think special case with UDIM work-flow I think) Then, UI may need to change for each work-flow. (tool labell name etc) Current problem is both 2 different work-flow mix up with option I feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted September 21, 2020 Report Share Posted September 21, 2020 0001482: Ability to switch from Single to Multi-UV Tile in the Texture Editor Feel free to add +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted September 21, 2020 Report Share Posted September 21, 2020 Please check this scene: 1 object, 1 uvset, 4 uDims, 1 material. Exportas fbx - Import fbx, tile as UVset = ON 1 object, 4 Materials, - Export fbx, UVset as Tiles = ON Import back on Blender result: 4 materials, original Udims island projection lost. //edit Sidenote: sorry i forgot to add when I import FBX, then check UV in UV room, it appear correct udimtest.blend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member tokikake Posted September 21, 2020 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 21, 2020 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Carlosan said: Please check this scene: 1 object, 1 uvset, 4 uDims, 1 material. Exportas fbx - Import fbx, tile as UVset = ON 1 object, 4 Materials, - Export fbx, UVset as Tiles = ON Import back on Blender result: 4 materials, original Udims island projection lost. Can you test, when you import FBX, then check UV in UV room, how they appear? Of course it keep 4 UV sets, but all UV sets locate on same tile? or each UV sets show in different place as same as blender? Why I ask you, I already did same test with applink and new haikalle offered beta etc, then do not hope same test without app-link. But hope to confirm, "UDIM tiles UV lost when we import" or 3d coat still keep UDIM arrange UV, but when FBX export it will be broken. when I export as obj (form 3d coat) it keep UDIM arrange as same as before. (remain all UDIM tiles without corrupt UV) Edited September 21, 2020 by tokikake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member tokikake Posted September 21, 2020 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 21, 2020 (edited) To test each case (without applink) I used this scene. material group will be changed as UVset (tile) name in 3d coat it is not matter of this test. 1. when import with use UVset as Tiles option (it is only option 3d coat UDIM work), we can not see real UVtile postion as UV. 3d coat locate all UVset on same UV tile as visuall. at least I hope UV room need to show each UV set on each UV tile space (1001 to 1100). without it we can not confirm how UV are arranged. 3d coat UV preview do not show real UV tiles. 2 Export as FBX,, the mesh UV corrupted. in blender. (it is not applink problem, simply when export as FBX, then load the FBX in blender, it break UV) Export as OBJ from 3d coat, can keep the UDIM tiles as same as before, (only test with most simple case, and same export option) ====== so I think, 3d coat FBX exporter, or blender (2.91 2.90 2.83) FBX importer break UDIM UV. without correct it, applink need to use different code just import as FBX. I afraid it. (about these test, I did not use applink at all, so 3d coat FBX exporter may need to be corrected it break UDIM UV) Edited September 21, 2020 by tokikake 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applink Developer haikalle Posted September 21, 2020 Author Applink Developer Report Share Posted September 21, 2020 (edited) Now I remember how it works. When you export mesh from 3d-coat it moves tiles into uvset. So only using 3d-coat export option gives wrong results. But applink knows how to build from "wrong" result and will reconstruct those uv sets into tiles and thats why applink works correctly with udim. Edited September 21, 2020 by haikalle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applink Developer haikalle Posted September 21, 2020 Author Applink Developer Report Share Posted September 21, 2020 @Carlosan Are you able make short video about your issue. I was trying but in my end uvs works as expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member tokikake Posted September 21, 2020 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 21, 2020 Just now, haikalle said: Now I remember how it works. When you export mesh from 3d-coat it moves tiles into uvset. So using only exporting option dosen't give wanted results. But applink will reconstruct those uv sets into tiles and thats why applink works correctly with udim. Yes,, but I think recent version seems retrun same problem for workflow 1 and workflow 2. I suppose you may need to gather infomation in your applink topic. (at current I stop to think about material group ^^; anyway work with UDIM tile without corruption with only use applink, I can not expect 3d coat FBX exporter anymore) ========== By the way additional infomation (without applink) for developer (though I do not know, if I need to report again ) To export as FBX with keep UDIM tile, actually I need to re-arrange UV as UDIM way in 3d coat UV room (do not test with retopo room about this case) like these pic. It is double unnecessary work.. As I said, there is no good tool to easy move UV manner with UV unit. (we can just move them with widgt, no unit, no tile number) about this case it is simple enough, but hey, if you made compex figure, with 10 UDIM arrange, carefully managed in other app, then import it in 3d coat for some texure work, or add sculpt detail, if it break your UDIM when export as FBX, how you think? Do you hope to use aprication which need to re-arrange all UDIM, to re-import FBX? To tell these step, (to export FBX with keep UV set) I need many word to guide for my friend. (who recently try to learn 3d coat with UDIM) (as I discribed, I know already how it work. so it is not my problem, but it will be problem for new 3d coat user without dev team solve this issue) even though material group not work, aprication need to keep UDIM as same as before for FBX export. (it is standard Though I actually do not like FBX ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted September 21, 2020 Report Share Posted September 21, 2020 Well... this is a common workflow. Translate this udims list converted as materials and everything is gone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member pickers Posted September 21, 2020 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 21, 2020 2 hours ago, Carlosan said: 0001482: Ability to switch from Single to Multi-UV Tile in the Texture Editor Feel free to add +1 Cant +1. I dont have access to mantis. :< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member tokikake Posted September 21, 2020 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Carlosan said: Well... this is a common workflow. Translate this udims list converted as materials and everything is gone So please carlosan report this problem,,,, (I belive they can understand why it need, if you tell them,, I can not tell well for dev understand) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member pickers Posted September 21, 2020 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 21, 2020 i dont know how udim works in other applications. But having an object with any number of UVs with their own UDIMs, is far better than an object with one UV with UDIMs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted September 21, 2020 Report Share Posted September 21, 2020 20 minutes ago, pickers said: Cant +1. I dont have access to mantis. :< Do you have an user created ? If not PM me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member tokikake Posted September 21, 2020 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 21, 2020 14 minutes ago, pickers said: i dont know how udim works in other applications. But having an object with any number of UVs with their own UDIMs, is far better than an object with one UV with UDIMs. I think, basically, we may use only one "UV" with unpack "each poligon face gorup" on different "UDIM tile" it is UDIM workflow. (so they can not be layered.. )and when you unpack mesh on each tile location, it means you already assgin tile number as poligon group. (so practically we may not need assgin number , it auto decided by tile position when we un-pack and arrange UV) Then one " UV" will be divided as multi "UV set" poligon groups . it is "UVset" workflow. each "UV sets" assgined "polgions" will be un-packed individually on UV 2grid world. most of case they may only locate on 1001 tile. though actually we can locate as I like, to get reasonable texture scale or adjust seam etc with shader texrue nodes. ( each UVset (poligons) can be layered on same UV space as you need) About both workflow, we need not make 10UV for 10 UVsets (aka poligon group for UV un-pack) , or we need not 10UV for 10 UDIM tiles ( virtual tile on 2d UV world) If we use 2 UV, that means the mesh have 2 UV options for all poligons. each UV already have multi UV sets or multi UDIM tiles. when we gahter all, it show one full UV of the mesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applink Developer haikalle Posted September 21, 2020 Author Applink Developer Report Share Posted September 21, 2020 @Carlosan Here is the video I made for your scene. Only issue that I see is that scale issue. I wasen't able to see that in my tests so I'm not quite sure what causing that. But udims works okey. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted September 21, 2020 Report Share Posted September 21, 2020 Your test: Export/import without using applink, suppose other users are not using blender but other apps Please only step to change > import/export as fbx or obj, avoid open on original app command. Then import Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applink Developer haikalle Posted September 22, 2020 Author Applink Developer Report Share Posted September 22, 2020 (edited) @Carlosan @tokikake I updated my special build. You can download on the beginning of this thread. Changes are: - Keeps materials when importing udim objects- "Export uv sets as tiles" in export window works correctly now But now when using with applink you need to set EXPORT UV SETS AS TILES = OFF, cause applink is using still old behavior. Edited September 22, 2020 by haikalle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted September 22, 2020 Report Share Posted September 22, 2020 Importing same fbx test as yesterday. Eureka ! Blender Material = 3DC Surface Material Blender object (1) = 3DC object (1) But now... at paint room... how to Fill or attach material by uDims ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member tokikake Posted September 22, 2020 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 22, 2020 3 hours ago, haikalle said: @Carlosan @tokikake I updated my special build. You can download on the beginning of this thread. Changes are: - Keeps materials when importing udim objects- "Export uv sets as tiles" in export window works correctly now But now when using with applink you need to set EXPORT UV SETS AS TILES = OFF, cause applink is using still old behavior. Wao, thanks!!! ,Then we know already, 3d coat FBX export corrupt UDIM tile in blender, so we can not use it (or we should not use it) without app link. (Untill 3d coat dev solve the issue) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member tokikake Posted September 22, 2020 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Carlosan said: Importing same fbx test as yesterday. Eureka ! Blender Material = 3DC Surface Material Blender object (1) = 3DC object (1) But now... at paint room... how to Fill or attach material by uDims ? if you only use one material group, with 4 UDIM tile, you may need to choose,, use UV set as material, or you need to re-think matrial group. or you use freeze , hide poligons manually ^^; (then it is because we do not have other selection group . (so it pefrectly decide by your material group) before we can only use UV set as material,, then now you can choose both.. (OK I know you still not content with, I know) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member tokikake Posted September 22, 2020 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 22, 2020 If I can request,, (though I use material group as selection, so usually material group are divided from UV tile) but I know there is case we set material group as 1 or 2, but use with 10 UDIM tile. So to get perfect, we need 2 selection group as UI. 1, UV tile selection 2, material group selection. 2 is arelayd we have in paint room (and can fill with material) so we need tool which can hide or visible with UV tile base.. (without mix up with material group) and FIll tool need option, "FIll with UV tile" (just thinking UI design is not difficult,, but I know it need to be achived by real code,, so thanks all efforts haikalle and 3d coat devlopers) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applink Developer haikalle Posted September 22, 2020 Author Applink Developer Report Share Posted September 22, 2020 Good to hear its better now. Thanks again for testing and suggestion for improvements. I will see how these requests could be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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