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haikalle

Feature requests for UDIM workflow

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Hi! Please write here your feature requests about UDIM workflow. I'm using Blender for my main App so integration between these two are one of my goals too. I will follow this thread very closely and see if I can implement as least some of your ideas. I use UDIM iworkflow very often.. so helping you I help myself too :) Here my idea:

1. User is able to name tile names 1001, 1002, etc to something else. Under the hood name is not changed but only for user eyes. 

Special build: 3DCoatGL64.zip

- Keeps materials when importing udim objects
- "Export uv sets as tiles" in export window works correctly now

 

Edited by haikalle
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I want to ask this question in here too. When you paint your mesh. Is it important to see all tiles in texture window. I kind of like how 3d-coat works now. You only focus on tile you are working on it. I can see that when you modify uvmap you need to see more tiles at same time. I have an idea how to solve this issue. But the the main question for all. Do you need to see all tiles while painting mesh?

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At mantis, if you filter "tiles" lot of request are listed and are related to your question.

I selected this as my priority list considering the current workflows and tools usable in other apps.

 

Texel density checker by uvset and by several uvsets if we use udims

Importing multiple image using udim tag

Ability to switch from Single to Multi-UV Tile in the Texture Editor

 

Thx

 

 

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Please check this link, look at Distribute Space option. Thx

ocd_spider-2048x595.jpg

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source...

On 4/19/2015 at 11:13 PM, TimmyZDesign said:

Yeah it seems to me that UV Sets pretty much serve the same purpose as UV Tiles, but somehow UV tiling became the more popular method, people just got used to it, so now they expect it in all 3D software. UV tiling really is just a matter of spreading out the UV Sets in the x and y directions, so you can look at all of them in rows and columns at the same time. I guess seeing them spread out all at once really is better than searching through a pile of UV Sets stacked on top of each other, so in that respect UV Tiles are superior to UV Sets. Andrew really should just make the UV space bigger to allow for tiling, then all the people who are used to tiles would be happy...but I guess that somehow isn't an easy change to make in the software, so he is hoping people will just accept using UV Sets instead.

The biggest problem for people using tiling is that the location of each tile is actually important, since each tile is given a specific number, and each external 3D app uses that number to reference which texture map is applied to the 3D mesh. So if all the tiles are converted to UV Sets while working in 3D-Coat, then they need to be put back into their exact original location when they are exported back out of 3D-Coat (by both row and column). It would be best to keep them as tiles in their original locations for the entire process of moving them between apps. That's why Andrew really needs to support UV tiling in 3D-Coat.

 

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I agree Carlosan attatched view.  (keep "full UV" which we made, in everyroom where we check UV and 2D paint ) + easy set resolution for each UV tile.

so we should have 2 different option. 1, use UV sets,   2 use UDIM .  it need to be decided by user as same as" glossy or roughness."

About both case, 3d coat UV (2d paint) view show "full UV" of the mesh as default.   But change visible (active) parts of UV with "material group" or "UV sets/UV tile" selection .  ]

and when export texture, we may need both options. 

"UV set work-flow"  "export texture for each "material group" or  "UV sets" 

"UDIM work-flow"    "export texture for each "material group" or  "UV tiles" 

(if single material group cover multi tiles, 3d coat alert, the material group. and may generate all tiles texrure which currently used for the material group. But I think it is almost user miss. and 3d coat may need not to think special case with UDIM work-flow I think)

Then, UI may need to change for each work-flow. (tool labell name  etc)  Current problem is both 2 different work-flow mix up with option I feel.

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Please check this scene: 1 object, 1 uvset, 4 uDims, 1 material. Exportas fbx

1object4udims.jpg

- Import fbx, tile as UVset = ON

1 object, 4 Materials, 

importTilesAsUVsets.jpg

- Export fbx, UVset as Tiles = ON

import-noudims.jpg

Import back on Blender result: 4 materials, original Udims island projection lost.

//edit

Sidenote: sorry i forgot to add

when I import FBX, then check UV in UV room, it appear correct

 

 

 

udimtest.blend

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32 minutes ago, Carlosan said:

Please check this scene: 1 object, 1 uvset, 4 uDims, 1 material. Exportas fbx

1object4udims.jpg

- Import fbx, tile as UVset = ON

1 object, 4 Materials, 

importTilesAsUVsets.jpg

- Export fbx, UVset as Tiles = ON

import-noudims.jpg

Import back on Blender result: 4 materials, original Udims island projection lost.

Can you test, when you import FBX, then check UV in UV room, how they appear?

Of course it keep 4 UV sets, but all UV sets locate on same tile?  or each UV sets show in different place as same as blender?

Why I ask you, I already did same test with applink and new haikalle offered beta etc, then do not hope same test without app-link. But hope to confirm,

"UDIM tiles UV  lost when we import" or 3d coat still keep UDIM arrange UV, but when FBX export it will be broken.  

when I export as obj (form 3d coat) it keep UDIM arrange as same as before. (remain all UDIM tiles without corrupt UV)

Edited by tokikake

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To test each case (without applink)  I used this scene.  material group will be changed as UVset (tile) name in 3d coat it is not matter of this test.

testscene.thumb.JPG.17e583c56faa370b4a17b6b6c867cf80.JPG

 

1. when import with use UVset as Tiles option (it is only option 3d coat UDIM work),  we can not see real UVtile postion as UV. 3d coat locate all UVset on same UV tile as visuall.

at least I hope UV room need to show each UV set on each UV tile space (1001 to 1100). without it we can not confirm how UV are arranged.  3d coat UV preview do not show real UV

tiles.

UVview.thumb.JPG.9e70cf115de44abffce5b7b9b1fb2e4c.JPG

 

2 Export as FBX,, the mesh UV corrupted. in blender. (it is not applink problem, simply when export as FBX, then load the FBX in blender, it break UV)

fbxexport.thumb.JPG.f697d4531b6ef8ad046f89f6b6cc5cc5.JPG

   

Export as OBJ from 3d coat,  can keep the UDIM tiles as same as before, (only test with most simple case, and same export option)

objexport.thumb.JPG.ef532aeb33079d2e803f6538a3bef7ee.JPG

 

======

so I think, 3d coat FBX exporter, or blender (2.91 2.90 2.83) FBX importer break UDIM UV. without correct it,  applink need to use different code just import as FBX. I afraid it. 

(about these test, I did not use applink at all,  so 3d coat FBX exporter may need to be corrected it break UDIM UV)

 

Edited by tokikake
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Now I remember how it works. :) When you export mesh from 3d-coat it moves tiles into uvset. So only using 3d-coat export option gives wrong results. But applink knows how to build from "wrong" result and will reconstruct those uv sets into tiles and thats why applink works correctly with udim.

Edited by haikalle
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Just now, haikalle said:

Now I remember how it works. :) When you export mesh from 3d-coat it moves tiles into uvset. So using only exporting option dosen't give wanted results. But applink will reconstruct those uv sets into tiles and thats why applink works correctly with udim.

Yes,, but I think recent version seems retrun same problem for workflow 1 and workflow 2. I suppose you may need to gather infomation in your applink topic. 

(at current I stop to think about material group ^^; anyway work with UDIM tile without corruption with only use applink, I can not expect 3d coat FBX exporter anymore)

==========

By the way additional infomation (without applink) for developer (though I do not know, if  I need to report again )

To export as FBX with keep UDIM tile, actually I need to re-arrange UV as UDIM way in 3d coat UV room (do not test with retopo room about this case) like these pic.

reallenge.thumb.JPG.27e81556956dadfd67f1c529031a5379.JPG

reallenge2.thumb.JPG.fca6497a0cff2fa232efeef03643e592.JPG

It is double unnecessary  work.. As I said, there is no good tool to easy move UV manner with UV unit. (we can just move them with widgt, no unit, no tile number)

about this case it is simple enough,

but hey, if you made compex figure, with 10 UDIM arrange, carefully managed in other app, then import it in 3d coat for some texure work, or add sculpt detail, if it break your UDIM

when export as FBX,  how you think?   :cray:

Do you hope to use aprication which need to re-arrange all UDIM, to re-import FBX?  To tell  these step, (to export FBX with keep UV set)

I need many word to guide for my friend. (who recently try to learn 3d coat with UDIM) (as I discribed, I know already how it work. so it is not my problem, but it will be problem for new 3d coat user without dev team solve this issue)

even though material group not work, aprication need to  keep UDIM as same as before for FBX export. (it is standard Though I actually do not like FBX )

 

 

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1 minute ago, Carlosan said:

Well... this is a common workflow. Translate this udims list converted as materials and everything is gone :(

andrew-hodgson-uvs.jpg?1600589419

andrew-hodgson-screenshot-82.jpg?1600589

So please carlosan report this problem,,,, (I belive they can understand why it need, if you tell them,, I can not tell well  for dev understand):help:

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i dont know how udim works in other applications. But having an object with any number of UVs with their own UDIMs, is far better than an object with one UV with UDIMs.

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20 minutes ago, pickers said:

Cant +1. I dont have access to mantis.   :<

Do you have an user created ? If not PM me

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14 minutes ago, pickers said:

i dont know how udim works in other applications. But having an object with any number of UVs with their own UDIMs, is far better than an object with one UV with UDIMs.

I think, basically, we may use only one "UV"  with unpack  "each poligon face gorup" on different  "UDIM tile" it is UDIM workflow. (so they can not be layered.. )and when you unpack mesh on each tile location, it means you already assgin tile number as poligon group.  (so practically we may not need assgin number , it auto decided by tile position  when we un-pack and arrange UV)

Then  one " UV"  will be divided as multi  "UV set" poligon  groups . it is "UVset" workflow.  each "UV sets"  assgined  "polgions" will be un-packed individually on UV 2grid world.  most of case they may only locate on 1001 tile.   though actually we can locate as I like, to get reasonable texture scale or adjust seam etc with shader texrue nodes.  ( each UVset (poligons) can be layered on same UV space as you need)

About both workflow,  we need not make 10UV for 10 UVsets (aka poligon group for UV un-pack) ,

or we need not 10UV for 10 UDIM tiles ( virtual tile on 2d UV world)

If we use 2 UV, that means the mesh have 2 UV options for all poligons.   each UV already have multi UV sets or multi UDIM tiles.  when we gahter all, it show one full UV of the mesh.

 

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@Carlosan

Here is the video I made for your scene. Only issue that I see is that scale issue. I wasen't able to see that in my tests so I'm not quite sure what causing that. 

But udims works okey.

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Your test:

Export/import without using applink, suppose other users are not using blender but other apps

Please only step to change > import/export as fbx or obj, avoid open on original app command.

Then import

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@Carlosan @tokikake

I updated my special build. You can download on the beginning of this thread. Changes are:

- Keeps materials when importing udim objects
- "Export uv sets as tiles" in export window works correctly now

But now when using with applink you need to set EXPORT UV SETS AS TILES = OFF, cause applink is using still old behavior.

 

Edited by haikalle
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